Obama Birth Certificate Controversy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Makavali wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
I absolutely detest the man’s policies, but shit like this, and his incredibly shady connections are why I have no respect for the man. Sad to say, he is probably the most ethicly flawed canidate either side could have produced from the primary canidates.

I wouldn’t even be bitching right now if were president hildawg, and I disagree with her on just about everything. But no, the morons elected this trash.

sad fucking day.

What shady connections?

This should be good.[/quote]

are you fucking serious? The worst thing anyone had to say about mccain was bringing up the keating 5, which he was proven not guilty. Obama’s obvious connections to Ayers, Rezko, wright, etc are bullshit I don’t want someone that fucked up in office.

I would NEVER EVER EVER vote for ANYONE from ANY PARTY regaurdless of policy because of connections like that. If it was mccain with connections like that, and obama who had nothing bad behind him, I would have chastized mccain and urged people to vote obama.

Even though his policies are absolutely atrocious. You need to stop pretending like you understand the situation, everytime you engage someone on issues like this you sound like another one of the obambi zombies.

And that’s bullshit, that is was shown to factcheck.org. Even if it was a slightly liberal organization I would be fine, not to mention that wasn’t the right document to prove anything. But especially not one where he stood on the board of directors for the project.

62

A group of Washington voters have found a state statute that gives them standing to challenge Obama’s eligibility.

He will not be able to run from this forever. At some point, he is going to have to show some credentials. When his lack of citizenship finally makes the front page, it is going to tear this country apart.

63

I am afraid this issue will never be completely put to rest. Seems it would be
best if he confronted his accusers with
the document if he has it Maybe part of
the problem is that the journalists who wanted to see Sarah Palin’s medical rcords to prove her baby was hers rather than her daughter’s and wanted to know about a DUI her husband had gotten 24 years earlier
never seemed to look at any of the questions
about Obama. The 2 answers they always fell back on were: That’s guilt by association
and that remark was taken out of context.
Eventually a guy should dredge up an associate who wasn’t guilty and some of the remarks could not be taken in any possible context and come up clean. So at least part of the problem is the journalistic bias.

Again, if I were Obama, I’d produce the document. If I had it.

64

[quote]sherekahn wrote:

Again, if I were Obama, I’d produce the document. If I had it. [/quote]

Why? You’ve won. Only the fringe can’t seem to accept this. If this turned out to be true, I’d even entertain the idea that I might be wrong about 9-11. It may really have the been plot of shape shifting lizard-jews working for a shadowy world government.

65

You misundertand. I have accepted it. I am pretty sure this whole thing is going nowhere even though three of his relatives allegedly said he was born in Kenya. I just said if I were Obama, I’d produce it. Interestingly enough, before all this came up about his birth certificate, some journalists were saying Mc Cain couldn’t be
president because he was born in the Canal Zone to military parents. Where are these
journalists now?

There were a lot of questions about the 911
attack that I would have addressed had I been Bush.

I just don’t like loose ends or double standards.

66

[quote]sherekahn wrote:
I just said if I were Obama, I’d produce it. [/quote]

Perhaps you would. Me, if I were President elect? I wouldn’t. Anyone worked up over this, probably wouldn’t have voted for me anyways. So, I’d hold out just to drive some anti-Sloth folks into a frothing frenzy. I’d get both a laugh, and and something to try to pin on all my detractors. That something being conspiracy right wing-nuttery.

67

[quote]tedro wrote:
A group of Washington voters have found a state statute that gives them standing to challenge Obama’s eligibility.

He will not be able to run from this forever. At some point, he is going to have to show some credentials. When his lack of citizenship finally makes the front page, it is going to tear this country apart.[/quote]

Most of the people in this country struggle to read a menu or barely passed Algebra I in high school (it had to be dumbed down a lot too — look at old texts from the 50’s to see this). They don’t care where he was born. They couldn’t comprehend the Constitution and don’t want to try. They just want to fuck, drink, do drugs, and pass through life without a thought.

68

[quote]tedro wrote:
Even Bill Richardson, NM Governor and Obama’s new Secretary of Commerce, believes Obama is an immigrant.

Richardson revelation-Obama is an immigrant - YouTube [/quote]

Taken out of context. I haven’t seen the original video, but he probably didn’t mean that literally. Just saying.

69

As a former teacher I can agree that the country has been dumbed down. I once gave
a high school world geography class a bonus
question, at their request. I asked, “Yes, or no, have you ever been to North America?”
Half the class answered in the negative.
Never did get the history students straightened out on “the Dukes of Hazzard
flag.” Ah, they didn’t even have the Dukes of Hazzard back then.

It is a bit difficult to expect intelligent voting. Candidates lie and people believe whatever they want to believe.

70

Obama will face the US Supreme Court or any Federal Court regarding providing actual proof of his birth in the United States immediately after John Kerry faces any such court for holding the office of Senator – which the Constitution says cannot be held by a person who has committed treason – after undoubtedly meeting with the enemy in wartime without authorization while in the armed services, which is defined in the UCMJ to which he was subject as treason.

In other words, any day now.

73

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
sherekahn wrote:
As a former teacher I can agree that the country has been dumbed down.

No…whatever gave you that idea?

Was it the fact that we just elected the most inexperienced man in the history of Presidential races to the highest office in the land?

And why?

Because he said the word “Change” over and over again.

Yea…you might say the good old US is light on the grey matter.[/quote]

I think you are being to harsh on kids and there roll in society

74

I think one of the things people need to start thinking about is how to prevent a similar controversy from occurring again.

Obviously the law is lacking if it does not provide a mechanism for verifying the eligibility of presidential candidates.

What is needed is for all fifty states to have initiatives to put such a law into effect. That way we will have a chance of actually getting it into law somewhere.

Otherwise in 2012 Obama will be able to run for reelection and still have his elligibility in doubt.

75

Mick 28 wrote:No…whatever gave you that idea?

Was it the fact that we just elected the most inexperienced man in the history of Presidential races to the highest office in the land?

And why?

Because he said the word “Change” over and over again.

Yea…you might say the good old US is light on the grey matter.

My point more or less. If I had had a few more students like you I might’ve stuck with teaching. Be making less money but…
I’m not convinced Obama could run a paper route but he’s about to become the leader of the free world so I hope his “advisers”
make the right decisions. To state another one that should be obvious, he’s obviously not his own man—somebody owns him—put him where he is and he’ll do their bidding,
whatever that is.

76

[quote]Sifu wrote:
tedro wrote:

[i]
Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the childs birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence. The parents would be issued a Certification of Live Birth.

This is not proof of where the child was born. It only proves that the parents claimed Hawaii as their main place of residence for the prior year.
[/i]

This is one of the central issues that this case rests upon. The short form certificate that Obama provided to fact check is essentially an affidavit. You can say I have a baby I need a birth certificate and they give you one. It is issued on the honor system. [/quote]

Looking at the provided document ( http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg ) for a birth claimed to be 8/4/61, the registrar filed the certificate 8/8/61.

Now I suppose, though I hadn’t heard of anyone claiming it, that maybe Obama’s birthday isn’t real either. However, if we grant that his birthdate is real and the only question is where he was born, are we really to think he was born in Kenya (or wherever outside of the US) on 8/4/61 but his parents managed to get the registrar to file this certificate by 8/8?

The Kenya-born claim would have made a lot more sense if there had been an abnormal time gap, e.g. if the certificate were filed months after the birth. But that is not the case.

The form itself states that it is prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.

Therefore it seems questionable that it is provided on mere unsupported affidavit. Perhaps there are certificates that are done that way, but it would seem odd that one with such a statement on it would be provided so loosely.

77

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
something relatively intelligent in an otherwise mostly idiotic thread
[/quote]

Actually Sloth nailed it back on New Years Eve:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Perhaps you would. Me, if I were President elect? I wouldn’t. Anyone worked up over this, probably wouldn’t have voted for me anyways. So, I’d hold out just to drive some anti-Sloth folks into a frothing frenzy. I’d get both a laugh, and and something to try to pin on all my detractors. That something being conspiracy right wing-nuttery.[/quote]

Obama hasn’t produced anything to convince the unconvincinable because a) he doesn’t have to, and b) because nothing he produces could possibly convince the die-hard doubters.

Perhaps most obviously, neither the DNC or the FEC would have ever let Obama on the ballot if they weren’t absolutely certain of his eligibility, primarily because of the potential embarrassment of getting someone elected who proved to be ineligible.

And like Sloth, I’d get a pretty good laugh watching the nut jobs whip themselves into a frenzy over a non-issue. Not to mention what it’s costing them to persue this bullshit.

78

[quote]tme wrote:

And like Sloth, I’d get a pretty good laugh watching the nut jobs whip themselves into a frenzy over a non-issue. Not to mention what it’s costing them to persue this bullshit.

[/quote]

Hell yeah, it’s one of the best aspects of this board! Laughs every time.

79

[quote]tme wrote:
And like Sloth, I’d get a pretty good laugh watching the nut jobs whip themselves into a frenzy over a non-issue. Not to mention what it’s costing them to persue this bullshit.
[/quote]

And you would be perfectly comfortable shelling out thousands (probably hundreds of thousands) on three separate law firms to combat the arguments of these ‘nutjobs’? Seems awfully wasteful and spiteful to me, and not really a trait I would want in an incoming president.

80

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Sifu wrote:
tedro wrote:

[i]
Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the childs birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence. The parents would be issued a Certification of Live Birth.

This is not proof of where the child was born. It only proves that the parents claimed Hawaii as their main place of residence for the prior year.
[/i]

This is one of the central issues that this case rests upon. The short form certificate that Obama provided to fact check is essentially an affidavit. You can say I have a baby I need a birth certificate and they give you one. It is issued on the honor system.

Looking at the provided document ( http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg ) for a birth claimed to be 8/4/61, the registrar filed the certificate 8/8/61.

Now I suppose, though I hadn’t heard of anyone claiming it, that maybe Obama’s birthday isn’t real either. However, if we grant that his birthdate is real and the only question is where he was born, are we really to think he was born in Kenya (or wherever outside of the US) on 8/4/61 but his parents managed to get the registrar to file this certificate by 8/8?

The Kenya-born claim would have made a lot more sense if there had been an abnormal time gap, e.g. if the certificate were filed months after the birth. But that is not the case.
[/quote]

First, all of this assumes the COLB is indeed legit, which many claim it is not.
http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/

Second, as you mentioned, Aug. 4th may not be his real birthday. Since the requirements for the certificate are merely an affidavit from the parents, there is really no way to know without a long-form birth certificate when (or where) he really was born.

Finally, both dates could very well be accurate. I do not know who needs to be present to request the COLB. One parent? Both parents? Child? Even if all three must be present, it would not be entirely unheard of for a mother in the 60’s to board a plane with a one-day old and fly back to Hawaii (while picking up 13 hours) and then go to the registrars office immediately from the airport.

This brings up one theory revolving around his birth. His parents likely intended for him to be born in Hawaii, but decided to visit the fathers family (or maybe the father was already there and his mother was visiting him) at some point before his expected birth.

But oops, Barry comes early, as is very common with teenage mothers, and Annie must rush back to the US to get his COLB so that he can appear to be a US citizen and get all the benefits that go along with it.

Prima facie evidence of his birth. That’s it. Not evidence of where or when he was born, simply evidence that he was indeed born and born alive. Only the long-form can give us evidence of the details.

Speaking of unsupported affidavits, you want to know one that is even more questionable? In all 50 states and DC, presidential candidates are required to sign an affidavit attesting to meeting all the requirements to be POTUS. No documents need to be shown, not even a birth certificate. This being the case, I don’t have any trouble believing that a state would issue a COLB with such little support.

I have been following this thing since sometime in March, and very skeptically at first. Let’s be honest, it sounds very much like a conspiracy theory. The final piece of evidence for me, (after the claims of a forgery, after going to school in Indonesia, after travelling to Pakistan) is the simple fact that he has not released anything that would disprove the claims. How easy would it be for you or I to simply show a birth certificate or college application records to put an end to all of this? Obama has done neither, and also refuses to tell how he was allowed to go to an Indonesian school for Indonesian citizens when Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, or how he traveled to Pakistan when the country was closed to US citizens. Finally, why is he spending so much on lawyers when the rumors could so easily be put to rest?

You may not want to believe everything surrounding this issue, but I would really think that these simple facts would be a red flag for a few more people.