Obama Attacks Gun Owners

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
201

[quote]Professor X wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christine wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…In all out war, they have you and everyone else beat no matter how many guns you personally have stored in your basement or closet.

The Russians could have used your expertise in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Shit, the afghans were supplied advanced tech military weapons by whom?

I guess that we will get help from the Russians then?

We’d need help from someone. A bunch of dudes running around with rifles ain’t gonna cut it.

The US military cannot hold downtown Baghdad without the Iraqis co-operating but they could hold Los Angeles?

Texas?

Always moving in enemy territory, no places to rest, everything could be a bomb and a possible rifle behind every window?

The military could not even feed their soldiers without civilian co-operation.

I think I’ve written this enough times…but in this “what if” scenario, why do you think military tactics would take precedence over shooting down the infrastructure so that people would rely on the government more? If you can’t buy food, they don’t have to worry about you as much.

Revelations seems to imply that all commerce will require “the mark of the beast”. This isn’t foreign territory.

Last time I checked the government didn’t control the food production and distribution in this country. Maybe imports and exports, but I think we the people can find a way around that.

Not the point. Again, I am talking about the possibility of freezing commerce. If someone erased your income right now, how are you eating tonight? Sure, friends and family would be first on the list of those you might call…but what about 4 weeks from now?

In four weeks…if our commerce was frozen…All out war would be going on in America…People are not going to wait 4 days to get what they need to live.

In that scenario, all out war would already be going on…so again, the question stands.

Further, I want you to ask yourself why we are even having this discussion now and whether it really makes sense to you that this level of fear is being perpetuated as if guns are about to be taken away come Jan 20.

Patriot Act allows spying on US soldiers and citizens? No problem…but don’t you dare make it so we can’t buy semi-automatic weapons at Wal-mart?[/quote]

  1. You can’t buy a semi-auto weapon at wal-mart
  2. I’m not worried about losing my gun rights any time soon.
  3. If people want to discuss the hypothetical what is wrong with that?
202

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

  1. You can’t buy a semi-auto weapon at wal-mart

  2. I’m not worried about losing my gun rights any time soon.

  3. If people want to discuss the hypothetical what is wrong with that? [/quote]

  4. then what are these people complaining about?

  5. then what are these people complaining about?

  6. Why now?

203

Why not now? HR 1022 is a real piece of legislation. Why not discuss the ramifications of the legislation?

What’s wrong with having (God forbid) an informed electorate.

Most gun bans are passed by ill-informed politicians based on ignorance and fear, much like ‘steroid’ legislation.

For example, the assault weapons ban focused on cosmetic modifications to firearms. That is to say that ‘banana clips’ were villified because they ‘look’ scary, not because they actually contributed to anything. That’s roughly equivalent to banning chrome or spoilers on cars because it makes them look faster.

Folks are vocal about what’s important to them.

I agree-- there are tons of things that our legiscritters should be focusing on, yet, strangling the 2nd Amendment always seems to be right near the top.

204

[quote]Professor X wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:

  1. You can’t buy a semi-auto weapon at wal-mart

  2. I’m not worried about losing my gun rights any time soon.

  3. If people want to discuss the hypothetical what is wrong with that?

  4. then what are these people complaining about?

  5. then what are these people complaining about?

  6. Why now?[/quote]

  7. You can buy a semi-auto from various place and I would like to continue to be able to.

  8. I don’t know what “these people” are complaining about I am speaking hypothetically.

  9. The First Ammendment of the Bill of Rights. You don’t need a reason you just can.

205

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:

  1. You can’t buy a semi-auto weapon at wal-mart

  2. I’m not worried about losing my gun rights any time soon.

  3. If people want to discuss the hypothetical what is wrong with that?

  4. then what are these people complaining about?

  5. then what are these people complaining about?

  6. Why now?

  7. You can buy a semi-auto from various place and I would like to continue to be able to.

  8. I don’t know what “these people” are complaining about I am speaking hypothetically.

  9. The First Ammendment of the Bill of Rights. You don’t need a reason you just can. [/quote]

I bought my semi-auto 12 gage at Walmart.

206

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:

How do you freeze commerce and feed your troops?

Do you believe they couldn’t freeze your finances if it became that dire and not freeze those of others?

How limited do you think a country would be in a situation of all out war given the technology today?

Of course they could, but how would they know to freeze mine and not others?

I have many, accounts, will they freeze my business?

What about my credit cards, paypal account, etc?

All of this is solvable if you are dealing with a few hundred people but not if millions dissent.

I am now interested in what all of these people are “dissenting” from. I am even more interested in why we are having this discussion now as if our freedom wasn’t being encroached upon for the last 8 years.[/quote]

Because as it happens, partly because of the last 8 years, America is approaching a juncture, and she will either lead us into the 21st century or will become a power like GB and France.

As it happens a black man will become president also.

Poor bastard.

207

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Further, I want you to ask yourself why we are even having this discussion now and whether it really makes sense to you that this level of fear is being perpetuated as if guns are about to be taken away come Jan 20.
[/quote]

Because the President-elect has stated in public and written in the agenda on his website that he supports these gun bans.

Because the Vice-President has stated publically that he supports these gun bans.

Because the leaders of both the House and the Senate have stated publically that they support these gun bans.

Should I keep going? Is that not enough cause for concern?

[quote]
Patriot Act allows spying on US soldiers and citizens? No problem…but don’t you dare make it so we can’t buy semi-automatic weapons at Wal-mart?[/quote]

What’s with this false dichotomy? Look I can do it too:

“Patriot Act allows spying on US soldiers and citizens? Well they can take my means of protection away for good measure! No concerns there!”

Oh, and I’m still trying to work out this idea of giving up our means of protecting our wives, children, families and communities from assault because we “probably wouldn’t win anyway.”

208

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am now interested in what all of these people are “dissenting” from. I am even more interested in why we are having this discussion now as if our freedom wasn’t being encroached upon for the last 8 years.[/quote]

I guess I see what you’re trying to do here. You’re trying to highlight the hypocritical nature of those that rationalized the Patriot Act and are now a afraid of a gun ban. Fair enough.

The thing is that I abhor the Patriot Act and criticized it then and now. But when I turn to you, you also advocate violating my rights. And yes, what you propose (registration, licensing, mandatory training) is a violation of my 2nd amendment rights, akin to requiring an intelligence test or poll tax to practice free speech or vote.

I believe you propose these things not out of malice, but because you are well-intentioned and believe that the security benefits outweigh the cost of violating individual rights. The puts you in the same boat as Patriot Act apologists in my eyes.

My question to you then is, what’s the recourse for someone like myself that believes in the antiquated idea that all of our enumerated rights are equally sacred? Libertarian party?

209

[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Further, I want you to ask yourself why we are even having this discussion now and whether it really makes sense to you that this level of fear is being perpetuated as if guns are about to be taken away come Jan 20.

Because the President-elect has stated in public and written in the agenda on his website that he supports these gun bans.

Because the Vice-President has stated publically that he supports these gun bans.

Because the leaders of both the House and the Senate have stated publically that they support these gun bans.

Should I keep going? Is that not enough cause for concern?

Patriot Act allows spying on US soldiers and citizens? No problem…but don’t you dare make it so we can’t buy semi-automatic weapons at Wal-mart?

What’s with this false dichotomy? Look I can do it too:

“Patriot Act allows spying on US soldiers and citizens? Well they can take my means of protection away for good measure! No concerns there!”

Oh, and I’m still trying to work out this idea of giving up our means of protecting our wives, children, families and communities from assault because we “probably wouldn’t win anyway.”

[/quote]

You didn’t know the best way to fight is to roll over, play dead, and hope they go away.

211

[quote]Moriarty wrote:

I guess I see what you’re trying to do here.[/quote]

Really? Because the point was hidden before?

[quote]
You’re trying to highlight the hypocritical nature of those that rationalized the Patriot Act and are now a afraid of a gun ban. Fair enough.[/quote]

Is it?

[quote]

The thing is that I abhor the Patriot Act and criticized it then and now. But when I turn to you, you also advocate violating my rights. And yes, what you propose (registration, licensing, mandatory training) is a violation of my 2nd amendment rights, akin to requiring an intelligence test or poll tax to practice free speech or vote. [/quote]

I’m sorry, but how is a waiting period to buy a gun violating your rights? With that logic, you might as well blame the guy selling the guns at such a high price for violating your rights. Why aren’t they free?!

Criminals do exist, even ones who haven’t committed the crime yet. Yes, I would hope every single gun sold is registered and I will wait as you explain how a waiting period is violating your rights to own a gun because that has been my main focus in this entire discussion.

I’m sorry, but what? I am not against guns and haven’t written anything of the sort so how am I for violating your rights? Are you even reading these posts before responding?

Don’t care. How about you respond to what has actually been written first.

212

Here’s something truly hipocritical.

Posters here want a waiting period, mandatory training, additional fees and taxes for a citizen to exercise an explicit 2nd Ammendment Right to Keep and Bear Arms, but…

But if one applies any of those requirements to the specter of the “right to abortion” which is no where in the Constitution, it is immediately deemed unconstitutional.

213

[quote]pwilliams wrote:
Here’s something truly hipocritical.

Posters here want a waiting period, mandatory training, additional fees and taxes for a citizen to exercise an explicit 2nd Ammendment Right to Keep and Bear Arms, but…

But if one applies any of those requirements to the specter of the “right to abortion” which is no where in the Constitution, it is immediately deemed unconstitutional.

[/quote]

Brilliant.

214

[quote]pwilliams wrote:
Here’s something truly hipocritical.

Posters here want a waiting period, mandatory training, additional fees and taxes for a citizen to exercise an explicit 2nd Ammendment Right to Keep and Bear Arms, but…

But if one applies any of those requirements to the specter of the “right to abortion” which is no where in the Constitution, it is immediately deemed unconstitutional.

[/quote]

Who here has even discussed abortion? How do you plan to add [quote]a waiting period, mandatory training, additional fees and taxes[/quote] to abortion? Wouldn’t a waiting period for abortion negate the abortion in the first place? They could wait for 9 months, huh?

Mandatory training? For an abortion? I think the doctor’s got that angle covered.

Additional fees? I’m fine with that since I have no clue what an abortion runs anyway.

215

So… is there anything you can’t buy at Wal-Mart?

216

[quote]Makavali wrote:
So… is there anything you can’t buy at Wal-Mart?[/quote]

They currently have no Wal-Marts on sale at Wal-Mart.

Of course, if they did, they would be built by the lowest bidder.

217

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Who here has even discussed abortion? How do you plan to add a waiting period, mandatory training, additional fees and taxes to abortion? Wouldn’t a waiting period for abortion negate the abortion in the first place? They could wait for 9 months, huh?
[/quote]

At the risk of derailing the thread, those things are, in some form, in place already:

The big difference is that they are required/regulated at the state level, not the Federal level.

Note: I don’t agree with pwilliams direct analogy between the two-- I think it’s a poor analogy. Just pointing out that those things exist

218

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Further, I want you to ask yourself why we are even having this discussion now and whether it really makes sense to you that this level of fear is being perpetuated as if guns are about to be taken away come Jan 20.

Because the President-elect has stated in public and written in the agenda on his website that he supports these gun bans.

Because the Vice-President has stated publically that he supports these gun bans.

Because the leaders of both the House and the Senate have stated publically that they support these gun bans.

Should I keep going? Is that not enough cause for concern?

Patriot Act allows spying on US soldiers and citizens? No problem…but don’t you dare make it so we can’t buy semi-automatic weapons at Wal-mart?

What’s with this false dichotomy? Look I can do it too:

“Patriot Act allows spying on US soldiers and citizens? Well they can take my means of protection away for good measure! No concerns there!”

Oh, and I’m still trying to work out this idea of giving up our means of protecting our wives, children, families and communities from assault because we “probably wouldn’t win anyway.”

You didn’t know the best way to fight is to roll over, play dead, and hope they go away. [/quote]

Some really do believe that it’s better to be an innocent victim, than it is to aggressively, and lethally defend you and your family. It’s not just my right, but my responsibility to protect myself and my family.

The police aren’t there to protect me, that’s not how the system works. They show up to clean up, and hopefully follow up successfully on the crime to apprehend the criminal. But they cannot protect me.

When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away…

220

[quote]pushharder wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
…
Note: I don’t agree with pwilliams direct analogy between the two-- I think it’s a poor analogy. Just pointing out that those things exist

Not a perfect analogy but a poignant one. Guarantee you the strongest pro-abortion folks are also the strongest anti-gun. I’m speaking in general terms.

An interesting correlation at the very least.

No abortion or privacy rights in Constitution but super passionate pro abortionists loudly crow these “rights”.

Explicit, undeniable gun rights in Constitution but super passionate pro abortionists loudly crow infringement on these rights.

?[/quote]

I don’t know. I am very much pro-abortion. Especially after reading some of the threads in this forum.

But I’m not anti-gun.

I don’t get the problem with a waiting period either. I know, I know, you’re going to scream the 2nd amendment but I really don’t see this as violating anyone’s rights to own a gun. I’d guess you would still be able to get a gun more quickly than a woman would be able to get an abortion.