Obama Attacks Gun Owners

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

This is counterinsurgency. It has never won for the counter insurgent without support of the domestic population, regardless of the military advantage of the oppressor/counterinsurgent. The only way it has ever worked is by compliance with the domestic social policy of the population.

There is no way the million military personnel will win a fight against 100 million domestic insurgents.

As for X’s thought that the domestic force is not trained to fight or think as Soldiers, that’s true on the surface. But most Americans are taught to stand up for themselves and not take crap off anybody, which means the values are there, and effective training is not that difficult.

I think the militarized civilian populace would be a legendary force to be reckoned with; determined gang-bangers along side Eagle Scouts, rednecks and former military.

None of that works if guns are gone. If they are gone, we end up with Orwell’s 1984.

182

[quote]pwilliams wrote:

As for X’s thought that the domestic force is not trained to fight or think as Soldiers, that’s true on the surface. But most Americans are taught to stand up for themselves and not take crap off anybody, which means the values are there, and effective training is not that difficult.
[/quote]

Stand up for themselves? You have an entire generation raised on youtube videos who thinks you owe them something simply because they inhaled and exhaled today. You give people way more credit than I do.

183

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Stand up for themselves? You have an entire generation raised on youtube videos who thinks you owe them something simply because they inhaled and exhaled today. You give people way more credit than I do.[/quote]

Beleive it or not, I was actually thinking a lot about blacks in America who do a better job of standing up for themselves in my opinion than others. Whether it’s political demonstrations, getting in someone’s face at McDonalds for cutting in line, or (stupidly) shooting someone for dissing them. It’s been engrained into their psyche to stand up for themselves and demand what they percieve to be entitled to. All they need is leadership to participate in a domestic insurgency, and they would be very effective.

But who could we get to lead them, X?

184

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christine wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…In all out war, they have you and everyone else beat no matter how many guns you personally have stored in your basement or closet.

The Russians could have used your expertise in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Shit, the afghans were supplied advanced tech military weapons by whom?

I guess that we will get help from the Russians then?

We’d need help from someone. A bunch of dudes running around with rifles ain’t gonna cut it.

The US military cannot hold downtown Baghdad without the Iraqis co-operating but they could hold Los Angeles?

Texas?

Always moving in enemy territory, no places to rest, everything could be a bomb and a possible rifle behind every window?

The military could not even feed their soldiers without civilian co-operation.

I think I’ve written this enough times…but in this “what if” scenario, why do you think military tactics would take precedence over shooting down the infrastructure so that people would rely on the government more? If you can’t buy food, they don’t have to worry about you as much.

Revelations seems to imply that all commerce will require “the mark of the beast”. This isn’t foreign territory. [/quote]

No it isn´t and no occupying army could ever hold a country without the support of the population.

According to Mao the guerrilla needs 30% of the population which is also roughly the number of people supporting the Colonial Army.

185

[quote]pwilliams wrote:
This is counterinsurgency. It has never won for the counter insurgent without support of the domestic population, regardless of the military advantage of the oppressor/counterinsurgent. The only way it has ever worked is by compliance with the domestic social policy of the population.

There is no way the million military personnel will win a fight against 100 million domestic insurgents.

As for X’s thought that the domestic force is not trained to fight or think as Soldiers, that’s true on the surface. But most Americans are taught to stand up for themselves and not take crap off anybody, which means the values are there, and effective training is not that difficult.

I think the militarized civilian populace would be a legendary force to be reckoned with; determined gang-bangers along side Eagle Scouts, rednecks and former military.

None of that works if guns are gone. If they are gone, we end up with Orwell’s 1984.[/quote]

Sure it would also work without guns.

First, you get fertilizer and gasoline-

Then, you walk into the nearest police station, or what is left of it after you have blown up the whole block and get their SWAT equipment.

After that, you ambush a military convoy with the para military equipment homeland security has so generously showered over each and every Sheriff department in BF, Idaho.

Hey, presto, you got yourself a well armed militia again.

186

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I know one thing for sure. If it ever came down to a real fight as discussed before and in our lifetime, the good guys will need a good oral surgeon. Whose side will you stand on?

Whichever can afford my bill.

Civilian most always pays better than government jobs.

[/quote]

But if you get a government job, you don’t actually have to work.

187

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christine wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…In all out war, they have you and everyone else beat no matter how many guns you personally have stored in your basement or closet.

The Russians could have used your expertise in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Shit, the afghans were supplied advanced tech military weapons by whom?

I guess that we will get help from the Russians then?

We’d need help from someone. A bunch of dudes running around with rifles ain’t gonna cut it.

The US military cannot hold downtown Baghdad without the Iraqis co-operating but they could hold Los Angeles?

Texas?

Always moving in enemy territory, no places to rest, everything could be a bomb and a possible rifle behind every window?

The military could not even feed their soldiers without civilian co-operation.

I think I’ve written this enough times…but in this “what if” scenario, why do you think military tactics would take precedence over shooting down the infrastructure so that people would rely on the government more? If you can’t buy food, they don’t have to worry about you as much.

Revelations seems to imply that all commerce will require “the mark of the beast”. This isn’t foreign territory. [/quote]

Last time I checked the government didn’t control the food production and distribution in this country. Maybe imports and exports, but I think we the people can find a way around that.

188

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pwilliams wrote:

As for X’s thought that the domestic force is not trained to fight or think as Soldiers, that’s true on the surface. But most Americans are taught to stand up for themselves and not take crap off anybody, which means the values are there, and effective training is not that difficult.

Stand up for themselves? You have an entire generation raised on youtube videos who thinks you owe them something simply because they inhaled and exhaled today. You give people way more credit than I do.[/quote]

Which would make it easier for the ones who actually care to be able to do something too. But true. It is pathetic how apathetic and useless some of the population has become.

189

None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

190

[quote]ephrem wrote:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe[/quote]

No one is ever truely free yes, being alive forces you to comply with the laws of nature.

191

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christine wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…In all out war, they have you and everyone else beat no matter how many guns you personally have stored in your basement or closet.

The Russians could have used your expertise in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Shit, the afghans were supplied advanced tech military weapons by whom?

I guess that we will get help from the Russians then?

We’d need help from someone. A bunch of dudes running around with rifles ain’t gonna cut it.

The US military cannot hold downtown Baghdad without the Iraqis co-operating but they could hold Los Angeles?

Texas?

Always moving in enemy territory, no places to rest, everything could be a bomb and a possible rifle behind every window?

The military could not even feed their soldiers without civilian co-operation.

I think I’ve written this enough times…but in this “what if” scenario, why do you think military tactics would take precedence over shooting down the infrastructure so that people would rely on the government more? If you can’t buy food, they don’t have to worry about you as much.

Revelations seems to imply that all commerce will require “the mark of the beast”. This isn’t foreign territory.

Last time I checked the government didn’t control the food production and distribution in this country. Maybe imports and exports, but I think we the people can find a way around that.
[/quote]

Not the point. Again, I am talking about the possibility of freezing commerce. If someone erased your income right now, how are you eating tonight? Sure, friends and family would be first on the list of those you might call…but what about 4 weeks from now?

192

[quote]Professor X wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christine wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…In all out war, they have you and everyone else beat no matter how many guns you personally have stored in your basement or closet.

The Russians could have used your expertise in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Shit, the afghans were supplied advanced tech military weapons by whom?

I guess that we will get help from the Russians then?

We’d need help from someone. A bunch of dudes running around with rifles ain’t gonna cut it.

The US military cannot hold downtown Baghdad without the Iraqis co-operating but they could hold Los Angeles?

Texas?

Always moving in enemy territory, no places to rest, everything could be a bomb and a possible rifle behind every window?

The military could not even feed their soldiers without civilian co-operation.

I think I’ve written this enough times…but in this “what if” scenario, why do you think military tactics would take precedence over shooting down the infrastructure so that people would rely on the government more? If you can’t buy food, they don’t have to worry about you as much.

Revelations seems to imply that all commerce will require “the mark of the beast”. This isn’t foreign territory.

Last time I checked the government didn’t control the food production and distribution in this country. Maybe imports and exports, but I think we the people can find a way around that.

Not the point. Again, I am talking about the possibility of freezing commerce. If someone erased your income right now, how are you eating tonight? Sure, friends and family would be first on the list of those you might call…but what about 4 weeks from now?[/quote]

How do you freeze commerce and feed your troops?

Plus, that would be the classic American treatment of the population of occupied territories, to make absolutely sure that they hate and despise the occupying army.

The next step should be to cut electricity and deny access to medical services.

Even if a government could act that way, which it can´t, the very idea would doom it.

194

[quote]orion wrote:

How do you freeze commerce and feed your troops?[/quote]

Do you believe they couldn’t freeze your finances if it became that dire and not freeze those of others?

How limited do you think a country would be in a situation of all out war given the technology today?

195

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:

How do you freeze commerce and feed your troops?

Do you believe they couldn’t freeze your finances if it became that dire and not freeze those of others?

How limited do you think a country would be in a situation of all out war given the technology today?[/quote]

Looks like it’s over then huh?

Push’s post above is outstanding.

God, guts and guns in that order were responsible for what would become the greatest nation on Earth.

Secularism, government dependency and slow public surrender are seeing it’s death.

The upcoming administration will be happy to help that along.

196

[quote]Professor X wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christine wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…In all out war, they have you and everyone else beat no matter how many guns you personally have stored in your basement or closet.

The Russians could have used your expertise in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Shit, the afghans were supplied advanced tech military weapons by whom?

I guess that we will get help from the Russians then?

We’d need help from someone. A bunch of dudes running around with rifles ain’t gonna cut it.

The US military cannot hold downtown Baghdad without the Iraqis co-operating but they could hold Los Angeles?

Texas?

Always moving in enemy territory, no places to rest, everything could be a bomb and a possible rifle behind every window?

The military could not even feed their soldiers without civilian co-operation.

I think I’ve written this enough times…but in this “what if” scenario, why do you think military tactics would take precedence over shooting down the infrastructure so that people would rely on the government more? If you can’t buy food, they don’t have to worry about you as much.

Revelations seems to imply that all commerce will require “the mark of the beast”. This isn’t foreign territory.

Last time I checked the government didn’t control the food production and distribution in this country. Maybe imports and exports, but I think we the people can find a way around that.

Not the point. Again, I am talking about the possibility of freezing commerce. If someone erased your income right now, how are you eating tonight? Sure, friends and family would be first on the list of those you might call…but what about 4 weeks from now?[/quote]

In four weeks…if our commerce was frozen…All out war would be going on in America…People are not going to wait 4 days to get what they need to live.

197

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:

How do you freeze commerce and feed your troops?

Do you believe they couldn’t freeze your finances if it became that dire and not freeze those of others?

How limited do you think a country would be in a situation of all out war given the technology today?[/quote]

If the government froze our finances it wouldn’t matter…They wouldn’t be needed during a revolution. We would take what we need by force.

198

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christine wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Professor X wrote:
…In all out war, they have you and everyone else beat no matter how many guns you personally have stored in your basement or closet.

The Russians could have used your expertise in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Shit, the afghans were supplied advanced tech military weapons by whom?

I guess that we will get help from the Russians then?

We’d need help from someone. A bunch of dudes running around with rifles ain’t gonna cut it.

The US military cannot hold downtown Baghdad without the Iraqis co-operating but they could hold Los Angeles?

Texas?

Always moving in enemy territory, no places to rest, everything could be a bomb and a possible rifle behind every window?

The military could not even feed their soldiers without civilian co-operation.

I think I’ve written this enough times…but in this “what if” scenario, why do you think military tactics would take precedence over shooting down the infrastructure so that people would rely on the government more? If you can’t buy food, they don’t have to worry about you as much.

Revelations seems to imply that all commerce will require “the mark of the beast”. This isn’t foreign territory.

Last time I checked the government didn’t control the food production and distribution in this country. Maybe imports and exports, but I think we the people can find a way around that.

Not the point. Again, I am talking about the possibility of freezing commerce. If someone erased your income right now, how are you eating tonight? Sure, friends and family would be first on the list of those you might call…but what about 4 weeks from now?

In four weeks…if our commerce was frozen…All out war would be going on in America…People are not going to wait 4 days to get what they need to live. [/quote]

In that scenario, all out war would already be going on…so again, the question stands.

Further, I want you to ask yourself why we are even having this discussion now and whether it really makes sense to you that this level of fear is being perpetuated as if guns are about to be taken away come Jan 20.

Patriot Act allows spying on US soldiers and citizens? No problem…but don’t you dare make it so we can’t buy semi-automatic weapons at Wal-mart?

199

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:

How do you freeze commerce and feed your troops?

Do you believe they couldn’t freeze your finances if it became that dire and not freeze those of others?

How limited do you think a country would be in a situation of all out war given the technology today?[/quote]

Of course they could, but how would they know to freeze mine and not others?

I have many, accounts, will they freeze my business?

What about my credit cards, paypal account, etc?

All of this is solvable if you are dealing with a few hundred people but not if millions dissent.

200

[quote]orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:

How do you freeze commerce and feed your troops?

Do you believe they couldn’t freeze your finances if it became that dire and not freeze those of others?

How limited do you think a country would be in a situation of all out war given the technology today?

Of course they could, but how would they know to freeze mine and not others?

I have many, accounts, will they freeze my business?

What about my credit cards, paypal account, etc?

All of this is solvable if you are dealing with a few hundred people but not if millions dissent.

[/quote]

I am now interested in what all of these people are “dissenting” from. I am even more interested in why we are having this discussion now as if our freedom wasn’t being encroached upon for the last 8 years.