Obama 14th-Best President of All Time

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

Please tell us how Reagan cost America it’s steel industry. Also, is that the only reason you’d place him as last? Or is that the issue that cut’s closest to home for you. I’d like to hear more as to why you’d place him dead last.
[/quote]

He signed a bill that open the doors for steel imports ,

It is close to home and a major catastophry for America . America had 100 of thousnds of high paying jobs running through PA,OH,IN, IL and MI . there were other states as well . But where you once had a thriving industry that had a lot of high paying jobs that produced a lot of tax revenue . You now have vast areas of poverty, with no Industry at all .

All of your poorest cities in America were all old steel towns . They are now a stone around America’s neck and will be until some one come’s up with jobs .

I have heard all the free market defense, the buggy whip defense, but no one can say the good that came out of it. Except what steel mills we do have are a lot more productive . I feel what Reagan did was short sighted.He is not eligable for greatness because of that catastrophic mistake.

If the name of our country was the United States of the Free Market , I would think Reagan great

22

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

Please tell us how Reagan cost America it’s steel industry. Also, is that the only reason you’d place him as last? Or is that the issue that cut’s closest to home for you. I’d like to hear more as to why you’d place him dead last.
[/quote]

He signed a bill that open the doors for steel imports ,

It is close to home and a major catastophry for America . America had 100 of thousnds of high paying jobs running through PA,OH,IN, IL and MI . there were other states as well . But where you once had a thriving industry that had a lot of high paying jobs that produced a lot of tax revenue . You now have vast areas of poverty, with no Industry at all .

All of your poorest cities in America were all old steel towns . They are now a stone around America’s neck and will be until some one come’s up with jobs .

I have heard all the free market defense, the buggy whip defense, but no one can say the good that came out of it. Except what steel mills we do have are a lot more productive . I feel what Reagan did was short sighted.He is not eligable for greatness because of that catastrophic mistake.

If the name of our country was the United States of the Free Market , I would think Reagan great[/quote]

lol. Ever bought any cheap steel product?

Higher steel prices (like you are advocating) could crush the rest of the economy. If the steel companies can’t produce a competitive product, why should other business be forced to by from them?

23

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

The EPA, Unions, Automotive companies put steel out of bussiness…

In addition, steel has seen a huge rebound the last 10 years as Minimills and Cast-strip has taken off…

24

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

He signed a bill that open the doors for steel imports ,

It is close to home and a major catastophry for America . America had 100 of thousnds of high paying jobs running through PA,OH,IN, IL and MI . there were other states as well . But where you once had a thriving industry that had a lot of high paying jobs that produced a lot of tax revenue . You now have vast areas of poverty, with no Industry at all .

All of your poorest cities in America were all old steel towns . They are now a stone around America’s neck and will be until some one come’s up with jobs .

I have heard all the free market defense, the buggy whip defense, but no one can say the good that came out of it. Except what steel mills we do have are a lot more productive . I feel what Reagan did was short sighted.He is not eligable for greatness because of that catastrophic mistake.

If the name of our country was the United States of the Free Market , I would think Reagan great[/quote]

Those states where also tied to automotive and as the unions destroyed pay and costs for automotive industry steel got killed too…

25

[quote]Ratchet wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

The EPA, Unions, Automotive companies put steel out of bussiness…

In addition, steel has seen a huge rebound the last 10 years as Minimills and Cast-strip has taken off…

[/quote]

I second that . . .

26

[quote]pushharder wrote:
“The top spot not surprisingly, Franklin D. Roosevelt,” gives it all away. The man I would rank as one of the worst presidents in terms of damage done to our country outside of his leadership in WWII is ranked as their number 1.

Siena College, hallmark of objectivity. Let me write that one down.[/quote]

Agreed.

Second, I’d say he got us in to WW2, it wasn’t our war technically.

27

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

Please tell us how Reagan cost America it’s steel industry. Also, is that the only reason you’d place him as last? Or is that the issue that cut’s closest to home for you. I’d like to hear more as to why you’d place him dead last.
[/quote]

He signed a bill that open the doors for steel imports ,

It is close to home and a major catastophry for America . America had 100 of thousnds of high paying jobs running through PA,OH,IN, IL and MI . there were other states as well . But where you once had a thriving industry that had a lot of high paying jobs that produced a lot of tax revenue . You now have vast areas of poverty, with no Industry at all .

All of your poorest cities in America were all old steel towns . They are now a stone around America’s neck and will be until some one come’s up with jobs .

I have heard all the free market defense, the buggy whip defense, but no one can say the good that came out of it. Except what steel mills we do have are a lot more productive . I feel what Reagan did was short sighted.He is not eligable for greatness because of that catastrophic mistake.

If the name of our country was the United States of the Free Market , I would think Reagan great[/quote]

Every time I feel a little down and out, I can always read one of your jangled posts. Your habit of utterly mangling the English language and the wholly uneducated, highly biased opinions you struggle to post on here is absolutely hysterical. I can’t wait to see what dim, incomprehensible post you’ll come up with next.

28

Writing down history before it actually happens is kick ass.

29

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

Please tell us how Reagan cost America it’s steel industry. Also, is that the only reason you’d place him as last? Or is that the issue that cut’s closest to home for you. I’d like to hear more as to why you’d place him dead last.
[/quote]

He signed a bill that open the doors for steel imports ,

It is close to home and a major catastophry for America . America had 100 of thousnds of high paying jobs running through PA,OH,IN, IL and MI . there were other states as well . But where you once had a thriving industry that had a lot of high paying jobs that produced a lot of tax revenue . You now have vast areas of poverty, with no Industry at all .

All of your poorest cities in America were all old steel towns . They are now a stone around America’s neck and will be until some one come’s up with jobs .

I have heard all the free market defense, the buggy whip defense, but no one can say the good that came out of it. Except what steel mills we do have are a lot more productive . I feel what Reagan did was short sighted.He is not eligable for greatness because of that catastrophic mistake.

If the name of our country was the United States of the Free Market , I would think Reagan great[/quote]

Every time I feel a little down and out, I can always read one of your jangled posts. Your habit of utterly mangling the English language and the wholly uneducated, highly biased opinions you struggle to post on here is absolutely hysterical. I can’t wait to see what dim, incomprehensible post you’ll come up with next.[/quote]

My pleasure . the suspense is killing me 2 :slight_smile:

30

Why was he only 14? I think he should be numero uno with him being the Messiah and all.

31

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

Please tell us how Reagan cost America it’s steel industry. Also, is that the only reason you’d place him as last? Or is that the issue that cut’s closest to home for you. I’d like to hear more as to why you’d place him dead last.
[/quote]

He signed a bill that open the doors for steel imports ,

It is close to home and a major catastophry for America . America had 100 of thousnds of high paying jobs running through PA,OH,IN, IL and MI . there were other states as well . But where you once had a thriving industry that had a lot of high paying jobs that produced a lot of tax revenue . You now have vast areas of poverty, with no Industry at all .

All of your poorest cities in America were all old steel towns . They are now a stone around America’s neck and will be until some one come’s up with jobs .

I have heard all the free market defense, the buggy whip defense, but no one can say the good that came out of it. Except what steel mills we do have are a lot more productive . I feel what Reagan did was short sighted.He is not eligable for greatness because of that catastrophic mistake.

If the name of our country was the United States of the Free Market , I would think Reagan great[/quote]

lol. Ever bought any cheap steel product?

Higher steel prices (like you are advocating) could crush the rest of the economy. If the steel companies can’t produce a competitive product, why should other business be forced to by from them?[/quote]

never bought any cheap steel , the price of steel did not go down , so where was the up side.

32

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

Please tell us how Reagan cost America it’s steel industry. Also, is that the only reason you’d place him as last? Or is that the issue that cut’s closest to home for you. I’d like to hear more as to why you’d place him dead last.
[/quote]

He signed a bill that open the doors for steel imports ,

It is close to home and a major catastophry for America . America had 100 of thousnds of high paying jobs running through PA,OH,IN, IL and MI . there were other states as well . But where you once had a thriving industry that had a lot of high paying jobs that produced a lot of tax revenue . You now have vast areas of poverty, with no Industry at all .

All of your poorest cities in America were all old steel towns . They are now a stone around America’s neck and will be until some one come’s up with jobs .

I have heard all the free market defense, the buggy whip defense, but no one can say the good that came out of it. Except what steel mills we do have are a lot more productive . I feel what Reagan did was short sighted.He is not eligable for greatness because of that catastrophic mistake.

If the name of our country was the United States of the Free Market , I would think Reagan great[/quote]

lol. Ever bought any cheap steel product?

Higher steel prices (like you are advocating) could crush the rest of the economy. If the steel companies can’t produce a competitive product, why should other business be forced to by from them?[/quote]

never bought any cheap steel , the price of steel did not go down , so where was the up side. [/quote]

If prices were comparable they would have stayed in business. Did US steel prices go up?

You’ve never bought a car? refrigerator? silverware? rolley chair? screws? nails?

If it wasn’t cheaper to get stuff overseas than domestically, companies wouldn’t do it. Do you realize what ordering product overseas does to lead time? Typically, it not only has to be cheaper, but significantly cheaper, to move to an overseas supplier. (and/or quality)

33

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

Please tell us how Reagan cost America it’s steel industry. Also, is that the only reason you’d place him as last? Or is that the issue that cut’s closest to home for you. I’d like to hear more as to why you’d place him dead last.
[/quote]

He signed a bill that open the doors for steel imports ,

It is close to home and a major catastophry for America . America had 100 of thousnds of high paying jobs running through PA,OH,IN, IL and MI . there were other states as well . But where you once had a thriving industry that had a lot of high paying jobs that produced a lot of tax revenue . You now have vast areas of poverty, with no Industry at all .

All of your poorest cities in America were all old steel towns . They are now a stone around America’s neck and will be until some one come’s up with jobs .

I have heard all the free market defense, the buggy whip defense, but no one can say the good that came out of it. Except what steel mills we do have are a lot more productive . I feel what Reagan did was short sighted.He is not eligible for greatness because of that catastrophic mistake.

If the name of our country was the United States of the Free Market , I would think Reagan great[/quote]

What was the bill that he signed that opened the doors for the imported steel?

everything that I’ve been able to find shows Reagan as more of a protectionist than anything else. He slapped tariff’s on imported steel, placed quotas on imported steel, etc.

34

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’d put William Henry Harrison above Reagan.[/quote]

I put Reagan Dead last I know he was a champion to the free market , he cost America it’s steel industry [/quote]

Please tell us how Reagan cost America it’s steel industry. Also, is that the only reason you’d place him as last? Or is that the issue that cut’s closest to home for you. I’d like to hear more as to why you’d place him dead last.
[/quote]

He signed a bill that open the doors for steel imports ,

It is close to home and a major catastophry for America . America had 100 of thousnds of high paying jobs running through PA,OH,IN, IL and MI . there were other states as well . But where you once had a thriving industry that had a lot of high paying jobs that produced a lot of tax revenue . You now have vast areas of poverty, with no Industry at all .

All of your poorest cities in America were all old steel towns . They are now a stone around America’s neck and will be until some one come’s up with jobs .

I have heard all the free market defense, the buggy whip defense, but no one can say the good that came out of it. Except what steel mills we do have are a lot more productive . I feel what Reagan did was short sighted.He is not eligable for greatness because of that catastrophic mistake.

If the name of our country was the United States of the Free Market , I would think Reagan great[/quote]

lol. Ever bought any cheap steel product?

Higher steel prices (like you are advocating) could crush the rest of the economy. If the steel companies can’t produce a competitive product, why should other business be forced to by from them?[/quote]

never bought any cheap steel , the price of steel did not go down , so where was the up side. [/quote]

If prices were comparable they would have stayed in business. Did US steel prices go up?

You’ve never bought a car? refrigerator? silverware? rolley chair? screws? nails?

If it wasn’t cheaper to get stuff overseas than domestically, companies wouldn’t do it. Do you realize what ordering product overseas does to lead time? Typically, it not only has to be cheaper, but significantly cheaper, to move to an overseas supplier. (and/or quality)[/quote]

The over all price of steel did not go down, When Reagan signed that bill China and other countries Viet nam and the likes Dumped steel on the shores of America before it was sold , Initially prices fell but to the extent that no price of goods dropped and there were no divedends increased due to cheaper steel so where did the money go ? I can tell you the vast cost

35

The way I see the market America had to be a top provider of steel and when we exsisted (MOSTLY) there was also a shortage created so world prices had to go up .We were an easy target all you had to do was sell your steel cheaper than we could make it

prices of cars during those times never went down there were no noticable effects of steel prices going down, Check out Caterpillar prices of there stock during the 80’s I can not find a graph. There profits should have sky rocketed

36

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
The way I see the market America had to be a top provider of steel and when we exsisted (MOSTLY) there was also a shortage created so world prices had to go up .We were an easy target all you had to do was sell your steel cheaper than we could make it

prices of cars during those times never went down there were no noticable effects of steel prices going down, Check out Caterpillar prices of there stock during the 80’s I can not find a graph. There profits should have sky rocketed[/quote]

lol. So the price of steel stayed the same and it put us steel out of business. You aren’t making sense.

Did you know that there are other things that affect the price of a car and of steel, like say inflation?

If us business chose foreign steel over domestic at the same price, US quality must have sucked. Period.

The price of steel, as well as all other goods, increase over time. Not increasing, or even increasing less, is cheaper.

Good gosh this touches on not understanding the basics of logical reasoning, much less economics.

37

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
The way I see the market America had to be a top provider of steel and when we exsisted (MOSTLY) there was also a shortage created so world prices had to go up .We were an easy target all you had to do was sell your steel cheaper than we could make it

prices of cars during those times never went down there were no noticable effects of steel prices going down, Check out Caterpillar prices of there stock during the 80’s I can not find a graph. There profits should have sky rocketed[/quote]

lol. So the price of steel stayed the same and it put us steel out of business. You aren’t making sense.

Did you know that there are other things that affect the price of a car and of steel, like say inflation?

If us business chose foreign steel over domestic at the same price, US quality must have sucked. Period.

The price of steel, as well as all other goods, increase over time. Not increasing, or even increasing less, is cheaper.

Good gosh this touches on not understanding the basics of logical reasoning, much less economics.[/quote]

My point is they were an easy target , meanning if American steel cost $50 dollars a ton to produce , and China offerd it at $49 dollars then there would be a negligible savings and the American Steel industry would suffer the same fate. I think it makes total sense.

As far as once those mills were moth balled prices went up drastically , so we lost a entire industry with ZERO benefit

38

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
The way I see the market America had to be a top provider of steel and when we exsisted (MOSTLY) there was also a shortage created so world prices had to go up .We were an easy target all you had to do was sell your steel cheaper than we could make it

prices of cars during those times never went down there were no noticable effects of steel prices going down, Check out Caterpillar prices of there stock during the 80’s I can not find a graph. There profits should have sky rocketed[/quote]

lol. So the price of steel stayed the same and it put us steel out of business. You aren’t making sense.

Did you know that there are other things that affect the price of a car and of steel, like say inflation?

If us business chose foreign steel over domestic at the same price, US quality must have sucked. Period.

The price of steel, as well as all other goods, increase over time. Not increasing, or even increasing less, is cheaper.

Good gosh this touches on not understanding the basics of logical reasoning, much less economics.[/quote]

My point is they were an easy target , meanning if American steel cost $50 dollars a ton to produce , and China offerd it at $49 dollars then there would be a negligible savings and the American Steel industry would suffer the same fate. I think it makes total sense.

As far as once those mills were moth balled prices went up drastically , so we lost a entire industry with ZERO benefit[/quote]

As stated, the price/quality difference would have to be more than that. And You are assuming that price increase would not have happened with an America only market. If prices went up enough on imports while stuff could again be produced at a competitive price domestically, the mills would have been fired back up. Period.

The only reason for them to fail is that they weren’t producing a competitive product (and that’s even including the inherent disadvantages of foreign producers).

39

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
The way I see the market America had to be a top provider of steel and when we exsisted (MOSTLY) there was also a shortage created so world prices had to go up .We were an easy target all you had to do was sell your steel cheaper than we could make it

prices of cars during those times never went down there were no noticable effects of steel prices going down, Check out Caterpillar prices of there stock during the 80’s I can not find a graph. There profits should have sky rocketed[/quote]

lol. So the price of steel stayed the same and it put us steel out of business. You aren’t making sense.

Did you know that there are other things that affect the price of a car and of steel, like say inflation?

If us business chose foreign steel over domestic at the same price, US quality must have sucked. Period.

The price of steel, as well as all other goods, increase over time. Not increasing, or even increasing less, is cheaper.

Good gosh this touches on not understanding the basics of logical reasoning, much less economics.[/quote]

My point is they were an easy target , meanning if American steel cost $50 dollars a ton to produce , and China offerd it at $49 dollars then there would be a negligible savings and the American Steel industry would suffer the same fate. I think it makes total sense.

As far as once those mills were moth balled prices went up drastically , so we lost a entire industry with ZERO benefit[/quote]

As stated, the price/quality difference would have to be more than that. And You are assuming that price increase would not have happened with an America only market. If prices went up enough on imports while stuff could again be produced at a competitive price domestically, the mills would have been fired back up. Period.

The only reason for them to fail is that they weren’t producing a competitive product (and that’s even including the inherent disadvantages of foreign producers).[/quote]

I agree , the reason I used those figures was to express the ease that foreign producers had to target American Steel . You know I doubt that the Foreign Steel producers made the profit , i would say it were the brokers that made all the profit . If you get a bunch of smart people together it would be easy to manipulate a market like steel

40

Why does it cost so much for the US to produce a product? Why do Americans deserve to be paid more to produce the exact same product than people from all over the world? IMO the unions drove up the cost of labor to the point that people were getting paid more than what they should have been paid.

I use the word pay to also include benefits. Once the surrounding community was used to being paid that much the cost of the community rose to a point that was unsustainable. Instead of slowly decreasing the pay to reflect the true market, the unions went on strike to make sure their unsustainable increases continued to increase. At some point the Piper has to be paid, so the industries shut down.

I am sorry these jobs are being lost all over the country. IMO it is Unions that are causing this mess. You can blame management only for giving into the extorsion of the Unions. Unions were good when they first started out, but when the US Government started regulating Working conditions all the Unions were left to do was get pay and benefits up, and when you control a mob you can get that for a short period of time.

It is perceived that the US is going down, I see the rest of the world catching up to us.