[quote]Derek542 wrote:
^ Because the last time I checked this is America, and I for one would rather federal regulation not involve how, what, when I feed my family. [/quote]
If replying to the original post, the gov’t isn’t forcing anyone’s hand here 
[quote]bcingu wrote:
So…formula will still be available to anyone who wants it, just not given out for free. And physicians will explain why breast milk is (substantially) healthier for infants, encouraging-but-not-forcing parents to make a healthier choice for said infants.
WHAT IS THIS, 1984?!?!??![/quote]
x2… to the person that said what’s wrong with free samples… It essentially builds brand loyalty, this is one reason certain junk food companies will give out baby bottles with their logo on it
Advertising/marketing is hardly ever what it seems on the surface and most people feel it doesn’t impact them, but it does on the subconscious level more than we realize.
[quote]Cuso wrote:
Some women see breastfeeding as a chore, and some see it as an intimacy shared between mother and child.
Breastfeeding is both ugly and painful, as well as beautiful and healing.
Neither I or my government will force my wife to choose what’s best.
PS: My kids were breastfed.[/quote]
That’s the thing. It doesn’t appear that they are forcing anyone to do anything. After reading the snip I posted a few times, it looks like the won’t supplement a child with formula if the mother has chosen to breastfeed. Nowhere could I find any words that would lead me to believe they are disallowing the choice not to breastfeed. I would guess that if a woman chose not to breastfeed at all, she would then have to purchase formula just like anyone else who wants to feed their baby formula outside of the hospital.
Their reasoning is that giving formula to supplement breastfeeding seems to promote the early stoppage of breastfeeding. Both my children were breastfed. However, my wife had more problems with her milk with my second than she did with my first. We supplemented with formula much earlier with him, and it wasn’t long before he started outright rejecting the breast. So there is some merit in their reasoning.
Also, I agree with everything you stated above. If my government ever decided to try and make that decision for me, I would disregard it. I’m not sure that’s what’s happening though.
[quote]Hell-Billy wrote:
Unsurprisingly Bloomberg is behind this.[/quote]
A man that has made himself a multi-billionaire by way of statistical data donates hundreds of millions of dollars to a hospital and then tries to implement a way to track data there, shocking.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
^ Because the last time I checked this is America, and I for one would rather federal regulation not involve how, what, when I feed my family. [/quote]
If replying to the original post, the gov’t isn’t forcing anyone’s hand here ;)[/quote]
A mayor isn’t government?
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
^ Because the last time I checked this is America, and I for one would rather federal regulation not involve how, what, when I feed my family. [/quote]
If replying to the original post, the gov’t isn’t forcing anyone’s hand here ;)[/quote]
A mayor isn’t government?[/quote]
Is that what my statement said no one’s hand is being forced, it was summed up nicely a few posts above
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
^ Because the last time I checked this is America, and I for one would rather federal regulation not involve how, what, when I feed my family. [/quote]
If replying to the original post, the gov’t isn’t forcing anyone’s hand here ;)[/quote]
I was responding to your quote here: [i]That said, hence my screenname, why would someone knowingly feed their kid formula if A. the mother is able to breastfeed B. and has the “time” (I use that term loosely) to do so[i]
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
^ Because the last time I checked this is America, and I for one would rather federal regulation not involve how, what, when I feed my family. [/quote]
If replying to the original post, the gov’t isn’t forcing anyone’s hand here ;)[/quote]
A mayor isn’t government?[/quote]
The mayor isn’t forcing you to do anything. He’s choosing to discontinue the promotion - not the availability - of a certain product.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
^ Because the last time I checked this is America, and I for one would rather federal regulation not involve how, what, when I feed my family. [/quote]
If replying to the original post, the gov’t isn’t forcing anyone’s hand here ;)[/quote]
A mayor isn’t government?[/quote]
Is that what my statement said no one’s hand is being forced, it was summed up nicely a few posts above[/quote]
Why do you do this after every line ;)? I see this almost every day where you post a controversial thread and bait people so that you can tell them why they’re wrong or are somehow not privy to the same information that you are. It wreaks of arrogance. If you don’t think that it’s odd that a political figure that makes gigantic donations to a hospital and then begin changing all of their policies…you’re the one that always talks about vested financial interests and yet you don’t see the vested interest here.
If the supposed goal is to remove any advertising from the hospitals then they should remove all of the freebies that they’ve received and explain to patients that they will be responsible for their own formula upon arrival at the hospital.
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
^ Because the last time I checked this is America, and I for one would rather federal regulation not involve how, what, when I feed my family. [/quote]
If replying to the original post, the gov’t isn’t forcing anyone’s hand here ;)[/quote]
A mayor isn’t government?[/quote]
Is that what my statement said no one’s hand is being forced, it was summed up nicely a few posts above[/quote]
Why do you do this after every line ;)? I see this almost every day where you post a controversial thread and bait people so that you can tell them why they’re wrong or are somehow not privy to the same information that you are. It wreaks of arrogance. If you don’t think that it’s odd that a political figure that makes gigantic donations to a hospital and then begin changing all of their policies…you’re the one that always talks about vested financial interests and yet you don’t see the vested interest here.
If the supposed goal is to remove any advertising from the hospitals then they should remove all of the freebies that they’ve received and explain to patients that they will be responsible for their own formula upon arrival at the hospital. [/quote]
I use stuff like to show that I’m not trying to be a prick with my statement, lighten the mood since it’s hard to tell from the written word
As for vested interest, I don’t have a clue about the mayor’s background, i stay out of politics b/c it is of no interest to me, b/c IMO, no matter who is running things the almighty dollar and “politics” rule all. We’re screwed either way
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
That said, hence my screenname, why would someone knowingly feed their kid formula if A. the mother is able to breastfeed B. and has the “time” (I use that term loosely) to do so
[/quote]
SMH…
Son, you need to stop talking about kids, and caring for them, because you don’t know a god damn thing.
[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Most of the places in my area have the infant formula locked up in glass cases a la the “roids” at GNC. Why this is done is beyond me. I mean, can you make meth out of infant formula? Do people steal it? Because WIC will give you baby formula for free if you can’t afford it. Doesn’t make sense.[/quote]
Yes it is stolen, often. And WIC, at least in MA, doesn’t fuck around. It isn’t an EBT card and go buy pizza and beer. They actually look into participants and vendors.
[quote]cueball wrote:
Their reasoning is that giving formula to supplement breastfeeding seems to promote the early stoppage of breastfeeding. Both my children were breastfed. However, my wife had more problems with her milk with my second than she did with my first. We supplemented with formula much earlier with him, and it wasn’t long before he started outright rejecting the breast. So there is some merit in their reasoning.
[/quote]
We had to stop breast feeding for a few reasons, and had the opposite problem. I believe we were on formula 4 before we found one my daughter would take, and it took her awhile to get used to the nipple.
So in my experience, that reason they give is bullshit. But I also went to a hospital that wasn’t run by cavepeople and they didn’t supplement with formula when we asked them not to… Imagine that.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
^ Because the last time I checked this is America, and I for one would rather federal regulation not involve how, what, when I feed my family. [/quote]
This, for fuck’s sake, this.
God damn am I sick of the nanny state bullshit that is sweeping the nation.
If you need government to hold your hand, you are a loser and need to fix that.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
I want to say that I’m pro-nursing, however, I’m pro-make-your-own-choices long before that. It’s nobody’s business - not a nurse, not a doctor, not the government - to make that decision for parents. It really irks me that these mothers that have just given birth have to sit there and be made feel terrible and lectured for their supposedly horrible choices.
My problem with it, Jehovasfitness, is that it would be MY choice as a parent to choose what method to feed my child that I deem fit. Formula is available for OTC sales and I do not feel that I should have restricted access to it. You know how shit hits the fan when they try to make supplements less available or take them away from the general public. In principal, I don’t think this is any different. It’s really deplorable that this has even been considered.[/quote]
Again, it would still be available, just not offered for “free” when you know free samples aren’t there out of the kindness of a business’ heart.
That said, hence my screenname, why would someone knowingly feed their kid formula if A. the mother is able to breastfeed B. and has the “time” (I use that term loosely) to do so
[/quote]
This explains my sentiments a bit.[/quote]
[quote]And now, the man you trusted to guard your pseudo-freedom in New York City has decided to dictate to new mothers how they will feed their own babies. Starting September 3, Mayor Bloomberg will enforce what is being called â??the most restrictive pro-breast-milk program in the nationâ?? which requires formula to be locked up and rationed out only if medical professionals can submit a medical reason for needing it. If the mother gets the formula from the state, she also gets a lecture. Why? It seems the people in power donâ??t really think women can make good choices for themselves or their children, especially the women who give birth.
Sure some of you will support this anti-choice program and justify it based on some feigned concern for the health of newborn babies. Some of you will speak out against it because you see it for the over-imposition of government into private lives that it is. However, I predict that not a single one of you will see the monumental contradiction before you once again.
Like happy and willing slaves, you conceded all your rights to the decisions of the people in power, and now they are dictating that those in charge do what youâ??ve been fighting against your whole lives â?? force a woman to let her child use her body. You may justify it as some caring act on the part of the government, but thatâ??s nonsense. Governments donâ??t care for people; people care for people, and youâ??ve been advocating for generations that the most extreme bond between the haveâ??s and the have notâ??s â?? the bond between mothers and their children â?? is meaningless unless the individual mother chooses to care for the greedy little thing.
Some people are calling your Mayor Bloomberg a nanny for turning NYC into a nanny-state, but at least nannies care for individual children. I hate to break it to you, Pro-Choice NYer, but you arenâ??t a child and Mayor Bloomberg and his officials donâ??t care for you (or the children you decide are worthy of life) individually. This isnâ??t about caring; itâ??s about control. Itâ??s Marxism.
This is social materialism, utilitarian ideology about the worth of a human person in the big chemical equation of society. Feeding people taxes the system, just as pregnancy taxes a womanâ??s body. If it were about caring for the babies, there wouldnâ??t also exist a law that allowed late-term abortion past the point of viability. There wouldnâ??t be a law allowing any unborn child to be killed. The same child the state says must be breastfed for itâ??s health could have been killed the trimester, the month, the week, the day, and the minute before birth with impunity. Wake up! The same people are also busy telling you what you can and cannot eat or drink. They donâ??t really think you can be trusted to chose wisely for yourself; they see you as objects to be managed.[/quote]
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
I want to say that I’m pro-nursing, however, I’m pro-make-your-own-choices long before that. It’s nobody’s business - not a nurse, not a doctor, not the government - to make that decision for parents. It really irks me that these mothers that have just given birth have to sit there and be made feel terrible and lectured for their supposedly horrible choices.
My problem with it, Jehovasfitness, is that it would be MY choice as a parent to choose what method to feed my child that I deem fit. Formula is available for OTC sales and I do not feel that I should have restricted access to it. You know how shit hits the fan when they try to make supplements less available or take them away from the general public. In principal, I don’t think this is any different. It’s really deplorable that this has even been considered.[/quote]
Again, it would still be available, just not offered for “free” when you know free samples aren’t there out of the kindness of a business’ heart.
That said, hence my screenname, why would someone knowingly feed their kid formula if A. the mother is able to breastfeed B. and has the “time” (I use that term loosely) to do so
[/quote]
This explains my sentiments a bit.[/quote]
[quote]And now, the man you trusted to guard your pseudo-freedom in New York City has decided to dictate to new mothers how they will feed their own babies. Starting September 3, Mayor Bloomberg will enforce what is being called â??the most restrictive pro-breast-milk program in the nationâ?? which requires formula to be locked up and rationed out only if medical professionals can submit a medical reason for needing it. If the mother gets the formula from the state, she also gets a lecture. Why? It seems the people in power donâ??t really think women can make good choices for themselves or their children, especially the women who give birth.
Sure some of you will support this anti-choice program and justify it based on some feigned concern for the health of newborn babies. Some of you will speak out against it because you see it for the over-imposition of government into private lives that it is. However, I predict that not a single one of you will see the monumental contradiction before you once again.
Like happy and willing slaves, you conceded all your rights to the decisions of the people in power, and now they are dictating that those in charge do what youâ??ve been fighting against your whole lives â?? force a woman to let her child use her body. You may justify it as some caring act on the part of the government, but thatâ??s nonsense. Governments donâ??t care for people; people care for people, and youâ??ve been advocating for generations that the most extreme bond between the haveâ??s and the have notâ??s â?? the bond between mothers and their children â?? is meaningless unless the individual mother chooses to care for the greedy little thing.
Some people are calling your Mayor Bloomberg a nanny for turning NYC into a nanny-state, but at least nannies care for individual children. I hate to break it to you, Pro-Choice NYer, but you arenâ??t a child and Mayor Bloomberg and his officials donâ??t care for you (or the children you decide are worthy of life) individually. This isnâ??t about caring; itâ??s about control. Itâ??s Marxism.
This is social materialism, utilitarian ideology about the worth of a human person in the big chemical equation of society. Feeding people taxes the system, just as pregnancy taxes a womanâ??s body. If it were about caring for the babies, there wouldnâ??t also exist a law that allowed late-term abortion past the point of viability. There wouldnâ??t be a law allowing any unborn child to be killed. The same child the state says must be breastfed for itâ??s health could have been killed the trimester, the month, the week, the day, and the minute before birth with impunity. Wake up! The same people are also busy telling you what you can and cannot eat or drink. They donâ??t really think you can be trusted to chose wisely for yourself; they see you as objects to be managed.[/quote][/quote]
Can you show me somewhere, in the press release or otherwise, where it says women will forced to breastfeed against their will? As I’ve posted before, I can find no such wording that even suggests that. All it says is that breastfeeding babies will not be SUPPLEMENTED with formula.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]cueball wrote:
Their reasoning is that giving formula to supplement breastfeeding seems to promote the early stoppage of breastfeeding. Both my children were breastfed. However, my wife had more problems with her milk with my second than she did with my first. We supplemented with formula much earlier with him, and it wasn’t long before he started outright rejecting the breast. So there is some merit in their reasoning.
[/quote]
We had to stop breast feeding for a few reasons, and had the opposite problem. I believe we were on formula 4 before we found one my daughter would take, and it took her awhile to get used to the nipple.
So in my experience, that reason they give is bullshit. But I also went to a hospital that wasn’t run by cavepeople and they didn’t supplement with formula when we asked them not to… Imagine that.
[/quote]
Beans, I understand that no two kids are alike and many have differing issues with feeding. Some, not at all. I’m not surprised at all that some babies are particular about what formula they like. My first breastfed much longer than my second and she had issues just transitioning to breast milk in a bottle when my wife went back to work. That sucked. Holding a hungry, screaming baby that won’t eat because she wants Momma.
Our kids were birthed at two different hospitals. Once they knew we were going to breastfeed, I don’t think the subject of formula ever even came up at either one. We did, however, receive a free sample in a bag on our way out.
I do think that this whole issue is being blown out of proportion, though. The OP and BrotherChris have both posted somewhat hot-headed reactions that seem to mislead as far as what this whole thing is about. I just haven’t read anything suggesting what either of those two authors are. I would imagine that if there is against-your-will policies at a hospital, women will go elsewhere to birth and that would be bad for business.
Edit: fixed quotes
There is always some douchebag; or in this case douchebags, who are always so effing certain they know everything. Particularly in cases where they have zero personal experience at all.
We have them here where they talk about eat this or don’t eat that; do this or don’t do that but then look like shit and can’t lift a damn thing but fuck if they don’t have organic, macrobiotic, milk from cows that were told how special they were from birth and given regular self esteeme classes.
Which is what Mayor McCheese here is doing. He’s not a doctor, he’s not a biologist, and he’s obviously never had any first hand experience so he’s talking strait out of hsi ass.
It’s interesting that the link is from a site that is designed for women who have actually had children and most of them seem to hate it. You know what we used to call that? The voice of experience and we used to freaking value it.
It’s like those dumbass personal trainers who get a shitty certification and think thay are Ripptoe except that they are doing it with the weight of a City administration behind them.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
There is always some douchebag; or in this case douchebags, who are always so effing certain they know everything. Particularly in cases where they have zero personal experience at all.
We have them here where they talk about eat this or don’t eat that; do this or don’t do that but then look like shit and can’t lift a damn thing but fuck if they don’t have organic, macrobiotic, milk from cows that were told how special they were from birth and given regular self esteeme classes.
Which is what Mayor McCheese here is doing. He’s not a doctor, he’s not a biologist, and he’s obviously never had any first hand experience so he’s talking strait out of hsi ass.
It’s interesting that the link is from a site that is designed for women who have actually had children and most of them seem to hate it. You know what we used to call that? The voice of experience and we used to freaking value it.
It’s like those dumbass personal trainers who get a shitty certification and think thay are Ripptoe except that they are doing it with the weight of a City administration behind them. [/quote]
What are you trying to say exactly. That hospitals that VOLUNTARILY join an initiative that, and I’ll repeat, does not tell women what they can and can’t do, don’t actually know anything? All they are saying is that breastfeeding is healthier/more beneficial and are taking steps to promote that. Do you disagree with that or feel that women, who many have never had a baby before, know differently?
I’m not sure any of you getting all hot and heavy about this have read anything objective and are basing your thoughts on other people’s hot-headed articles. Go and read my first post in this thread with the clearly outlined objectives.
The goal, it seems, is to try and PROMOTE, not force, breastfeeding.
And for the record, I am 100% for a woman’s choice to decide to use formula instead of breastfeeding. That’s not even the REAL issue here though.
I find it very strange so many people read one person’s opinion and take everything they said as fact. There is no ban on the use of formula in NYC.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
There is always some douchebag; or in this case douchebags, who are always so effing certain they know everything. Particularly in cases where they have zero personal experience at all.
We have them here where they talk about eat this or don’t eat that; do this or don’t do that but then look like shit and can’t lift a damn thing but fuck if they don’t have organic, macrobiotic, milk from cows that were told how special they were from birth and given regular self esteeme classes.
Which is what Mayor McCheese here is doing. He’s not a doctor, he’s not a biologist, and he’s obviously never had any first hand experience so he’s talking strait out of hsi ass.
It’s interesting that the link is from a site that is designed for women who have actually had children and most of them seem to hate it. You know what we used to call that? The voice of experience and we used to freaking value it.
It’s like those dumbass personal trainers who get a shitty certification and think thay are Ripptoe except that they are doing it with the weight of a City administration behind them. [/quote]
^ Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I was just thinking how ironic that a plan for an imposed ban on larger sodas got more of an uproar than this. That surely speaks volumes.
WTF is with ya’ll?
It never says women can’t formula feed or, for that matter, that hospitals cannot formula feed. So if the mother CHOOSES to breastfeed the hospitals won’t disregard her wishes. How the hell is that disempowering or an intrusion?
It says hospitals will not supplement a breastfed baby with formula unless medically required, and that they won’t hand out free samples.
That does NOTHING to keep you from formula feeding, in any way shape or form. WTF people? Bloomberg is a gold plated idiot, that’s plain from other actions, but some of ya’ll are reading way too much into what this does.
I almost never chime in on political issues, but in this case I will bend that rule.
I am a father of five. we have breatfed and bottle fed various kids depending on the circumstances for each of them. I know of what I speak.
What all y’all need to realize is that the pro-breastfeeding groups are very, VERY aggressive. They market just as hard as the formula companies, and I daresay their tactics can be pretty nasty. Many of these groups actually send people into hospital to make their case face-to-face witht he new moms, still sweaty from delivery. Many are genuine and kind. Many are insistent. Many are manipulative and pushy.
I’ve personally seen two new moms, including my sister, totally broken and brought to tears because of problems breastfeeding. Both of them felt like complete and utter failures as mothers, as people, as human beings. Why? Because of the crippling pressure they felt to succeed at breastfeeding. In the one lady’s case, she simply couldn’t produce milk. Between pregnancy hormones, post-partum, and these feelings of guilt, she sat on the floor and wept for days, convinced she had condemned her child to a lesser life because she had to use formula.
These are not unique stories. However well-meaning, the breastfeeding lobby has lost its way. They come across as inflexible, militant, and wield their righteousness like a blunt instrument heedless of the young moms they are mowing down.
Everybody needs to relax. This is not your decision. It is the decision of each individual mom and nobody else has any right to an opinion. If a mom chooses not to breastfeed because she physically can’t, because it’s too stressful for her, or even if she is just plain lazy, that’s her right and you have no entitlement to judge her for it.
And what REALLY browns me off is any time a DUDE feels like he has any right to an opinion. We don’t.
I was adopted. I was bottle fed. I turned out great.
My sister was alergic to breast milk. She was bottle fed non-milk formula. She also turned out great.
See? Breastfeeding is not a necessary condition, and it’s a choice.
[quote]Canada_K wrote:
I almost never chime in on political issues, but in this case I will bend that rule.
I am a father of five. we have breatfed and bottle fed various kids depending on the circumstances for each of them. I know of what I speak.
What all y’all need to realize is that the pro-breastfeeding groups are very, VERY aggressive. They market just as hard as the formula companies, and I daresay their tactics can be pretty nasty. Many of these groups actually send people into hospital to make their case face-to-face witht he new moms, still sweaty from delivery. Many are genuine and kind. Many are insistent. Many are manipulative and pushy.
I’ve personally seen two new moms, including my sister, totally broken and brought to tears because of problems breastfeeding. Both of them felt like complete and utter failures as mothers, as people, as human beings. Why? Because of the crippling pressure they felt to succeed at breastfeeding. In the one lady’s case, she simply couldn’t produce milk. Between pregnancy hormones, post-partum, and these feelings of guilt, she sat on the floor and wept for days, convinced she had condemned her child to a lesser life because she had to use formula.
These are not unique stories. However well-meaning, the breastfeeding lobby has lost its way. They come across as inflexible, militant, and wield their righteousness like a blunt instrument heedless of the young moms they are mowing down.
Everybody needs to relax. This is not your decision. It is the decision of each individual mom and nobody else has any right to an opinion. If a mom chooses not to breastfeed because she physically can’t, because it’s too stressful for her, or even if she is just plain lazy, that’s her right and you have no entitlement to judge her for it.
And what REALLY browns me off is any time a DUDE feels like he has any right to an opinion. We don’t.
I was adopted. I was bottle fed. I turned out great.
My sister was alergic to breast milk. She was bottle fed non-milk formula. She also turned out great.
See? Breastfeeding is not a necessary condition, and it’s a choice.[/quote]
Did you figure out yet what is causing all those babies in your life?
Your cable out again…