NSA Phone Records

[quote]The_Incubator wrote:
My suspicion is that the reason the NSA needs and wants millions and millions of phone records on normal Americans is precisely so they can figure out exactly what a terrorist network doesn’t look like.

They want to build graphs of our normal social networks (businesses, family, friends, etc.), so that it’s easier to make the background noise drop out and find the patterns that are suggestive of terrorist behavior.
[/quote]
My feeling is that the task of establishing managable algorithms to identify and disregard familial, business and other social networks is quite a difficult one given the variability of telephone use patterns that invariably exists across different families, economic sectors and social groups. It is/will be quite difficult, but I don’t doubt that it can be accomplished in time, particularly given the increasing amount of grant money alotted to network research over the past few years. I think the NSA, and the rest of the government for that matter, is still largely playing catch up with respect to network analysis and its applicability.

The nitty gritty legal analysis, from Professor Orin Kerr:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2006_05_07-2006_05_13.shtml#1147414541

More Thoughts on the Legality of the NSA Call Records Program:

We now have a slightly better idea of the factual and legal issues surrounding the newly-disclosed NSA Call Records program, and I thought I would offer a second analysis that is more focused and more factually informed than the one I posted this morning. My still-very-tentative bottom line: The companies were probably violating the Stored Communications Act by disclosing the records to the NSA before the Patriot Act renewal in March 2006, although the new language in the Patriot Act renewal at least arguably made it more likely that the disclosure was legal under the emergency exception.

First, let’s update the facts. It now looks relatively clear that the NSA was not directing the telephone companies to conduct any particular monitoring on the NSA’s behalf. Rather, NSA officials were persuading the telephone companies to voluntarily disclose their call records to the government. In other words, the government wasn’t actually doing the monitoring, but instead was encouraging the telephone companies to disclose call records to them that the telephone companies already had collected.

In light of those apparent facts, the key issue to me becomes whether the disclosures were permitted under the Stored Communications Act, and specificially 18 U.S.C. 2702 ( http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002702----000-.html ). (For a “user’s guide” to the Stored Communications Act, see here: A User's Guide to the Stored Communications Act, and a Legislator's Guide to Amending it by Orin S. Kerr :: SSRN ). Telephone companies are providers of “electronic communications service to the public” under the Act, and the Act regulates when providers can disclose non-content records of account information to the government. The ban is in Section 2702(a)(3):

[A] provider of . . . electronic communication service to the public shall not knowingly divulge a record or other information pertaining to a subscriber to or customer of such service (not including the contents of communications . . . ) to any governmental entity.

Of the possible exceptions to the statute, three are most likely to be relevant. They permit disclosure under the circumstances listed in 18 U.S.C. 2702(c), as amended by the Patriot Act renewal of 2006:

(2) with the lawful consent of the customer or subscriber;
(3) as may be necessarily incident to the rendition of the service or to the protection of the rights or property of the provider of that service;
(4) to a governmental entity, if the provider, in good faith, believes that an emergency involving danger of death or serious physical injury to any person requires disclosure without delay of information relating to the emergency[.]

(Note that the link to the Cornell site’s text of 2702 does not have the latest version of the exceptions, as it was last updated in the fall of 2005 and the exceptions were amended in March 2006. I was unable to find the new version on a website, and ended up taking it from Westlaw.).

Let’s take each of these exceptions in turn.

(1) The first exception permits disclosure if the subscriber consents. There are no cases interpreting eactly what consent means in 2702(c)(2), but like many of the exceptions in the SCA it is clearly a copy of an analogous exception in the close cousin of the SCA, the federal Wiretap Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-22. We do have lots of cases on what consent means in the context of the Wiretap Act, so those cases presumably create the applicable standard here. The basic rule: Consent means that the user actually agreed to the action, either explicitly or implicitly based on the user’s decision to proceed in light of actual notice. Here’s what the First Circuit said on this in United States v. Lanoue, 71 F.3d 966, 981 (1st Cir. 1995):

Keeping in mind that implied consent is not constructive consent but ‘consent in fact,’ consent might be implied in spite of deficient notice, but only in a rare case where the court can conclude with assurance from surrounding circumstances that the party knowingly agreed to the surveillance. We emphasize that consent should not casually be inferred, particularly in a case of deficient notice. The surrounding circumstances must convincingly show that the party knew about and consented to the interception in spite of the lack of formal notice or deficient formal notice.

Did users consent to the disclosure under this standard? The Washington Post ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/11/AR2006051100539.html ) reports that government lawyers seemed to think so, based on small print in the Terms of Service of the telephone service customer agreements:

One government lawyer who has participated in negotiations with telecommunications providers said the Bush administration has argued that a company can turn over its entire database of customer records ? and even the stored content of calls and e-mails ? because customers “have consented to that” when they establish accounts. The fine print of many telephone and Internet service contracts includes catchall provisions, the lawyer said, authorizing the company to disclose such records to protect public safety or national security, or in compliance with a lawful government request. . . . Verizon’s customer agreement, for example, acknowledges the company’s ‘duty under federal law to protect the confidentiality of information about the quantity, technical configuration, type, destination, and amount of your use of our service,’ but it provides for exceptions to ‘protect the safety of customers, employees or property.’ Verizon will disclose confidential records, it says, “as required by law, legal process, or exigent circumstances.”

This seems like a very unpersuasive argument in light of the cases construing consent under the Wiretap Act, of which the consent provision in the SCA is a mirror. It reminds me of the argument that a DOJ lawyer once tried to make that monitoring prison phones was allowed because language in the Code of Federal Regulations clearly notified prisoners that their phones would be monitored. According to the lawyer, the notice in the fine print of the CFR was sufficient to make the monitoring consensual. Judge Posner rejected the argument, calling it “the kind of argument that makes lawyers figures of fun to the lay community.” United States v. Daniels, 902 F.2d 1238 (7th Cir. 1990). In light of these cases, I think the consent argument is weak. (Incidentally, if you look up Daniels, note that Posner incorrectly states later in the opinion that the Second Circuit accepted such a weak notice argument. If you read the Second Circuit case, it is clear that the CA2 did no such thing and that Posner was just being sloppy.)

(2) The next possible exception is disclosure “as may be necessarily incident to the rendition of the service or to the protection of the rights or property of the provider of that service.” This is known as the provider exception, and is also a copy of an analogous exception from the Wiretap Act, 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(i). You can read all about this exception here ( Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section (CCIPS) | Department of Justice ): basically, it gives providers rights to disclose information to the government to help the providers combat illegal service and unauthorized use of the network. It seems pretty clear that this doesn’t apply: The cases make clear that the provider exception exists to further provider interests, not government interests.

(3) The third and final exception is the emergency exception, which permits providers to disclose “if the provider, in good faith, believes that an emergency involving danger of death or serious physical injury to any person requires disclosure without delay of information relating to the emergency.” At the outset, it’s worth noticing something very interesting about this language: It is almost brand spanking new. The language that passed as part of the Patriot Act in 2001 allowed disclosure only when “the provider reasonably believes that an emergency involving immediate danger of death or serious physical injury to any person justifies disclosure of the information.” This was the language in place from October 2001 until March 2006. Did the phone companies have such a belief under the 2001-06 language? I gather they had a reasonable belief of danger, but I don’t know of a reason to think that they had a reasonable belief of “immediate” danger. If this was a program ongoing for several years, then it’s hard to say that there was a continuing reasonable belief of immediate danger over that entire time.

As noted above, though, the Patriot Act renewal passed in March 2006 changed this language. And it did so in a way with potentially important implications for the legality of the NSA call records program. The new exception states that disclosure is permitted “if the provider, in good faith, believes that an emergency involving danger of death or serious physical injury to any person requires disclosure without delay of information relating to the emergency.” Few people were paying attention to this change at the time, but I would guess that it was very important to the telephone companies: The change expanded the exception to allow disclosure when there is a good faith belief instead of a reasonable belief, and when there was a danger instead of an “immediate” danger. I wouldn’t be surprised if the telephone companies were pushing the change in part out of concern for civil liability for their participation in the NSA call records program. (Or perhaps not, come to think of it: Does the new language suggest that the information disclosed needs to relate to the emergency to be covered? What if the provider doesn’t know what information relates to the emergency?)

More tomorrow, I hope.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
BigPaul wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
There aren’t any violations of any Constitutional rights going on.

I would think that the fourth amendment would be at least somewhat applicable here as I would think one’s phone records could be considered to fall under the category of one’s papers as protected by the amendment by virtue of the fact that phone records appear on one’s phone bill.

I’m not the lawyer here though.

Fourth Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

They are corporate records are are not protected.

Maybe they should be, being as the nature of these things are very private. Maybe the forefathers didn’t see phone companies coming, of course, but this should be changed.

either way, I hardly think that they have any probably cause to catalog the calls of regular Americans.[/quote]

I hardly consider phone company records private when hundreds or even thousands of employess have access.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
From Smith v. Maryland, cited above:

(b) Petitioner in all probability entertained no actual expectation of privacy in the phone numbers he dialed, and even if he did, his expectation was not “legitimate.” First, it is doubtful that telephone users in general have any expectation of privacy regarding the numbers they dial, since they typically know that they must convey phone numbers to the telephone company and that the company has facilities for recording this information and does in fact record it for various legitimate business purposes. And petitioner did not demonstrate an expectation of privacy merely by using his home phone rather than some other phone, since his conduct, although perhaps calculated to keep the contents of his conversation private, was not calculated to preserve the privacy of the number he dialed. Second, even if petitioner did harbor some subjective expectation of privacy, this expectation was not one that society is prepared to recognize as “reasonable.” When petitioner voluntarily conveyed numerical information to the phone company and “exposed” that information to its equipment in the normal course of business, he assumed the risk that the company would reveal the information [442 U.S. 735, 736] to the police, cf. United States v. Miller, 425 U.S. 435 . Pp. 741-746.[/quote]

Boston,

I’m not sure this is applicable. In the case you cite, it’s almost certain the police were investigating a suspect, and we all have no problem with the police getting a warrant or otherwise investigating things.

However, to blanket grab this information for people that are not under investigation is a very different level of invasion of privacy.

It’s very possible indeed that the courts would find differently given that the situation is different.

Are you “trying” to defend the government actions (as per usual) instead of figuring out what you feel on the issue and how to promote that instead… or are they one and the same?

After all, if you wish, you can do the same as the Bush administration and look for interpretations of the situation that promote your viewpoint… oh wait… I guess that is what you are doing.

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
From Smith v. Maryland, cited above:

(b) Petitioner in all probability entertained no actual expectation of privacy in the phone numbers he dialed, and even if he did, his expectation was not “legitimate.” First, it is doubtful that telephone users in general have any expectation of privacy regarding the numbers they dial, since they typically know that they must convey phone numbers to the telephone company and that the company has facilities for recording this information and does in fact record it for various legitimate business purposes. And petitioner did not demonstrate an expectation of privacy merely by using his home phone rather than some other phone, since his conduct, although perhaps calculated to keep the contents of his conversation private, was not calculated to preserve the privacy of the number he dialed. Second, even if petitioner did harbor some subjective expectation of privacy, this expectation was not one that society is prepared to recognize as “reasonable.” When petitioner voluntarily conveyed numerical information to the phone company and “exposed” that information to its equipment in the normal course of business, he assumed the risk that the company would reveal the information [442 U.S. 735, 736] to the police, cf. United States v. Miller, 425 U.S. 435 . Pp. 741-746.

vroom wrote:
Boston,

I’m not sure this is applicable. In the case you cite, it’s almost certain the police were investigating a suspect, and we all have no problem with the police getting a warrant or otherwise investigating things.

However, to blanket grab this information for people that are not under investigation is a very different level of invasion of privacy.

It’s very possible indeed that the courts would find differently given that the situation is different.

Are you “trying” to defend the government actions (as per usual) instead of figuring out what you feel on the issue and how to promote that instead… or are they one and the same?

After all, if you wish, you can do the same as the Bush administration and look for interpretations of the situation that promote your viewpoint… oh wait… I guess that is what you are doing.[/quote]

vroom,

It’s applicable because it shows this type of information doesn’t even implicate the 4th Amendment, irrespective of who is trying to get it or for what reasons. It fails to get out of the analytical gate, so to speak, because it’s not the type of information that receives protection. (And going further, even if it were, there’s no rational expectation of privacy in the specific case of phone-number information).

[quote]vroom wrote:

Are you “trying” to defend the government actions (as per usual) instead of figuring out what you feel on the issue and how to promote that instead… or are they one and the same?

After all, if you wish, you can do the same as the Bush administration and look for interpretations of the situation that promote your viewpoint… oh wait… I guess that is what you are doing.[/quote]

No, this is a simple, basic and not at all complicated question on the 4th Amendment.

Any statutory law questions are separate – there’s no 4th Amendment protection here, so there cannot possibly be a violation.

Keep your snide comments for subjects on which you may have a point.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Isn’t this NSA program dwarfed by the surveilance program enacted by president Clinton?

mmmmkay…lets keep bringing up the white trash loser that has not been in office for more than half a decade.

I’m not trying to bring up Clinton per se, but rather mention the program authorizations enacted by the ex president as a means of comparison and debate.

Mmmmmkay?

What do you think of the echelon surveilance program and how it compares to the current NSA program?[/quote]

I assume you are linking to Wikipedia for the uninformed as this is old news.

Eschelon is the reason Al Queda stopped using cell phones, sat phones, and fax machines.

Eschelon makes Bush’s programs worthless as the wackos already know about this technology and have found easy ways around it.

Bush’s current programs capture jack S and expose us for no reason. Nothing like paying 50% of my salary to government so they can use it to spy on me.

I don’t give a rats @$$ about the loser in office over half a decade ago.

All I care about is what is going on right now.

BB is about as intellectually bankrupt as any human being could possibly be.

Let it go.

I don’t know enough about the law to absolutely be confident that there was a violation. However, there was certainly a violation of the public trust!

Sometimes what matters more than the law is the public trust. In other words, what is expected and not expected by the citizenry. And I can tell you with complete candor that this is not sitting very well with any of my republican friends.

I can also tell you that as of this point in time I fear my government more than any potential terrorist attack.

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
BB is about as intellectually bankrupt as any human being could possibly be.

Let it go.[/quote]

It’s OK marmadogg,

I really don’t expect you to grasp the points anyway.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I don’t know enough about the law to absolutely be confident that there was a violation. However, there was certainly a violation of the public trust!

Sometimes what matters more than the law is the public trust. In other words, what is expected and not expected by the citizenry. And I can tell you with complete candor that this is not sitting very well with any of my republican friends.

I can also tell you that as of this point in time I fear my government more than any potential terrorist attack.[/quote]

I’m in complete agreement with Zeb. Scary, isn’t it?

[quote]doogie wrote:
ALDurr wrote:

Second of all, even with the most sophisticated equipment, randomly selecting tens of millions of phone calls will take years to determine any real pattern to effectively detect terrorists. By that time, the patterns would most likely change again and your data will not be as helpful.

This is a great under-estimate of the government’s capabilities.

[/quote]

Given what has been going on within the last 40 years, do you really believe that the government is that competent? We are talking about the modeling of human behavior and tracking human habits. Technology is only one aspect of this. In order to do it correctly, it will take a significant amount of human interpretation to sort all the data out. It takes years to do this correctly without innocent people being caught in the crossfire. The government has never been known for its patience, and so this violation of public trust will hurt more than help.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Keep your snide comments for subjects on which you may have a point.[/quote]

From the way you support everything the administration does, via legal “analysis”, one might suspect you were bucking for the job of Attorney General.

Then you’d be able to find loopholes which would let the administraton do whatever it wanted…

Oh wait, they already have guys that do that too. Sorry.

It’s the politics forum buddy, don’t imagine you get a free pass.

Anyhow, again, it is very possible that with increased technology and capability that the degree of privacy expected and the degree of privacy to be protected should change somewhat. You may not feel this is the case, and current case law may support your viewpoint, but that doesn’t change the possible viewpoints available.

Try looking forward once in a while…

[quote]ALDurr wrote:

I’m in complete agreement with Zeb. Scary, isn’t it? [/quote]

It simply demonstrates that you are getting smarter as you move along…

:slight_smile:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I don’t know enough about the law to absolutely be confident that there was a violation. However, there was certainly a violation of the public trust!

Sometimes what matters more than the law is the public trust. In other words, what is expected and not expected by the citizenry. And I can tell you with complete candor that this is not sitting very well with any of my republican friends.

I can also tell you that as of this point in time I fear my government more than any potential terrorist attack.[/quote]

I may break Zeb’s balls, but he makes it clear that he’s actually a Conservative- one who doesn’t want the government creeping into people’s personal lives.

And yes, the masses will dictate the laws- if there are enough people mad about this (which I hope there are, across all party lines) then the laws will be changed quickly.

Like I said, I would not be OK with this if it was a Democrat or a Republican. This is just plain strange.

I was thinking about this the other day- I can’t see how this will lead to good things. Searching through search engines, logging phone calls, etc…people don’t just wake up one day in an overbearing government. It happens slowly, and the rights are eroded over time. That is happening now.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
ALDurr wrote:

I’m in complete agreement with Zeb. Scary, isn’t it?

It simply demonstrates that you are getting smarter as you move along…

:)[/quote]

Ok, you got me with that one. Now can we go back to calling each other hate-filled before someone starts calling brokeback on us? :slight_smile:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
It happens slowly, and the rights are eroded over time. That is happening now. [/quote]

That is the most insightful comment on this thread!

By the time that the defenders of this bullshit think that something is actually wrong, it will most likely be too late!

[quote]ZEB wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
It happens slowly, and the rights are eroded over time. That is happening now.

That is the most insightful comment on this thread!

By the time that the defenders of this bullshit think that something is actually wrong, it will most likely be too late![/quote]

This slow erosion of rights and unchecked corruption is something that has been documented in every known fallen civilization. It’s usually when the city is burning down around their ears or they have a knife stuck in their gut is when these “staunch defenders of the republic” finally realize that the republic is not what they thought it was. Like my grandmother would say, “hardheads make soft behinds.”

Some of these defenders claim to study history, but it is obvious that many of them just browsed the cliff notes and learned just enough to be dangerous and annoying.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
BB is about as intellectually bankrupt as any human being could possibly be.

Let it go.

It’s OK marmadogg,

I really don’t expect you to grasp the points anyway.[/quote]

Many conservatives (including myself) do not agree with your defending the current administration on this…sorry.

I would tell you to grasp your ankles but you are already doing that.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
It happens slowly, and the rights are eroded over time. That is happening now.

That is the most insightful comment on this thread!

By the time that the defenders of this bullshit think that something is actually wrong, it will most likely be too late![/quote]

ZEB saying FightinIrish26 had an extremely insightful comment. Did hell freeze over yet?

By the way, I also agree – and have to publicly commend ZEB for sticking to his fundamental beliefs. That’s becoming something rare these days and I feel the need to cherish and celebrate it.