My E2 was high in comparison to my T level, if my T was higher 40 wouldn’t be an issue. And thank you, I’m just impatient and over eager, I’m not the only one suffering, my GF and friends are too, but they understand my situation at least.
I’m not the first person to see estrogen dominance in men not on TRT, an obese guy with high estrogen and low testosterone will have the high estrogen suppressing the LH. You might argue that men on TRT don’t have this problem because the HPTA is shutdown, but the sexual side effects of estrogen dominance is clearly seen in men complaining of sexual dysfunction which is corrected when the dosage is adjusted and/or anastrozole is used.
I have seen it play out countless times not just here on T-Nation, but also Excelmale and two other forums. I’ll take one from dextermogan’s play book, “I’ll take real life anyday” over some literature/study.
I feel like dogshit on 1/8 of a 0.050 anastrozole, my knees and hips become painful and it just keeps getting worse. The symptom count increases the longer I’m on it. My body is quite literally being destroyed from the inside out.
For me, irritable, tired, zero libido, no morning wood, sore body. I crashed my E2 with Adex of 0,20mg three times a week but I kept thinking it was high E. Bloods eventually showed a level of 16pg/ml. It was miserable. The blood test will hopefully give you direction.
When you say estrogen dominance it makes it sound like the estrogen is what is causing the issue which is simply not the case. The fact that he is obese will cause him to have low testosterone and high estrogen. You can then say he is obese or has an androgen deficiency, but stating estrogen dominance is misleading.
You don’t correct sexual dysfunction with anastrazole since estrogen is what PROVIDES sexual function as long as there is a sufficient level of androgens. Raise testosterone and sexual dysfunction disappears. You do not prescribe anastrazole as you then wind up with low estrogen and low testosterone which is pointless and unhealthy.
This has nothing to do with literature or studies. Take any man with sexual dysfunction with low T (regardless of his estrogen levels). Raise T and sexual dysfunction improves. The estrogen here is irrelevant but you claim ‘estrogen dominance’ as estrogen being the key factor in why the sexual dysfunction occurs. Again, this is FALSE.
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Yes you do, when a guy has T sufficiently elevated and estrogen is above ranges, the anastrozole is taken and sexual function is restored rather quickly. We know anastrozole acts very quickly.
I don’t see how else you could interpret the result as anything else.
@kgoggs - I’m sorta confused by your history. You were on TRT a while back at 100mg a week and had to stop.
Now, you are back on TRT and have been for 6 weeks at 150mg a week and an AI?
The first time you were on TRT, did you take an AI?
Was an AI prescribed for your most recent protocol based on blood work from the years ago 100mg a week protocol or from blood work before starting again?
Generally, have you ever not used an AI while on TRT? And if yes, when and how did you feel?
Have you experienced “high E2 symptoms” while not taking an AI, while taking an AI or both?
Honestly, you could have other things going on like Thyroid, but keep it simple. Testosterone only at a certain dose for 8 weeks minimum… Then reassess.
@kgoggs - what things are different now than at this point in your life? List them out to really make note.
The ranges are based on men not on TRT.
If you are raising T by means of TRT you CANNOT use the clinical range for E2. It no longer applies.
There are tons of men with optimized T and E2 over 100 having sex 2-3 times a day. Will you state they are estrogen dominant? Your logic is silly. If ANY man needs to take an AI to resolve sexual dysfunction it has NOTHING to do with their E2 and EVERYTHING to do with insufficient androgens. Your version of “T sufficiently elevated” is by no means anywhere near what the term actually means.
Again, what you are stating is false.
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Great that it works for them, sadly it doesn’t work for everyone.
Send me one it doesn’t work for. I’ll take one look at their labs and protocol and I’ll know what it is. Like 99% of all the other times I’ve done it. This stuff isn’t rocket science.
@kgoggs I would ditch the AI immediately. My hunch is your dose isn’t high enough. You felt great when you added T to your natural production. Now that your natural production is suppressed, and your levels have fallen, you don’t feel as good. Logic states: your dose is insufficient.
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Dbossa …for a man that has a predisposition for Gyno…do you recommend the same thing ?
Absolutely.
In my particular case, here are some interesting points:
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I developed gyno pre-trt with T of 220 and E2 of 12. Gyno due to androgen deficiency.
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Raised T in the range and took AI to control gyno. Gyno stayed the same.
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Raised T above the range until I had no symptoms and ditched the AI. Gyno is less than half what it used to be.
Was/is there a medical reason why you started/continue TRT at that age?
Drop the HCG for now. Im one of its biggest fans here but seems you have to drop it for at least a few weeks.
Primary hypogonadism, one of my testes died when I was born, when I hit puberty I wasn’t growing like everyone else, and I was depressed, moody and got gyno, so parents had me checked and my levels were low.
I think my plan is to stop the HCG, and Stop the A.I., I’ll also go to daily Injections of 0.107mL, to try and lower estradiol with lower more frequent doses. I’ll stick with that protocol for the next 6 weeks (which is when I get follow-up labs) and see where I’m at. Also working on losing weight so I have less fat for the T to convert to E2.
Will HCG really even do much to you since you’re down a testicle and weren’t producing that much T to begin with naturally?
You should really state dosages in milligrams. Volume doesn’t tell us how much T you’re actually getting.
Probably not, also the first 3 years I never took HCG and I felt great. I wish I had understood more about TRT and been into the forums and stuff, I may have never quit. But I was 15 when I went to the endo, and I didn’t quite understand everything, so I never really looked into it, all I knew was that I took a shot every 2 weeks, and it made me feel better. And yes sorry, I’m used to talking in mL. I’ll speak in MG