This Vortex is another monumental video which has many important details in the subject. Michael’s follow through is becoming legendary.
FALSE…Nary a mention most of the founders were Freemasons…this is the real foundation and
goal of this Country…I don’t agree with ALL of this, nor even like Jim Bakker much, especially
with his famously scumbag, shady history…but the FOUNDING of this country is what I’m focusing on here,
'Vortex gets a big fat ‘‘D-’’ on his report card while Tom Horn gets an ‘‘A’’
Here’s the truth on the country founding fathers, among other very interesting, riveting stuff you can
take with a huge grain of salt…focus on the founders of this Country Tom speaks
about…you cannot refute that part of it…it’s solid, and any rebuttal of that part of it
will sound weak unless one has better info than Tom on the founders and who most really
were…there’s OTHER stuff here, but stick with it.
[quote]Karado wrote:
FALSE…Nary a mention most of the founders were Freemasons…this is the real foundation and
goal of this Country…I don’t agree with ALL of this, nor even like Jim Bakker much, especially
with his famously scumbag, shady history…but the FOUNDING of this country is what I’m focusing on here,
'Vortex gets a big fat ‘‘D-’’ on his report card while Tom Horn gets an ‘‘A’’
[/quote]
I think you miscontrued what Michael Voris said in the Vortex video. He might not have explicitly mentioned Freemasons nor used the term freemasonry. But he did say that the founding documents of this country were not specifically Christian, and their vagueness planted the seeds for today’s explicitly un-Christian policies. Judgment call either way: whether pointing out the masonic connections would have been more distracting and confusing for most people; or more enlightening toward the main point.
Agreed. Not a Christian nation.
Then later deify you in the presence of other False Gods inside the ‘Pregnant’ Capitol Rotunda,
with the"Apotheosis Of Washington".
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=156079
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Agreed. Not a Christian nation.
[/quote]
There is that, too.
Jesus was in hades but never ‘‘Hell’’… if one reads Jesus’ words he told the thief on the cross
that ‘‘today you will be with me in paradise’’, then later on the Cross he says: ''Father into THY HANDS I commit my Spirit".
(caps for emphasis), and nowhere in Scripture does it say he was there for ‘‘3 Days’’ either.
So the notion that Christ went to hell itself is not biblical, what’s critical is the context of 1st Peter Chapter 3,
because he did at some point go to Prison/Hades (not “hell”…THAT place is not populated yet from what I understand)
and preached to the people of Noah’s Day and afterwards.
Technically, he was in Hell’s waiting room…and the notion of Hell being ‘‘Eternal’’ is another thing altogether.
I was sent a PDF awhile back with a hermeneutically detailed explanation on this that I do not possess
anymore regarding the whole ‘eternal’ damnation thing, and a ‘silver lining’ was exposed …I’m off the beaten path
of a lot of ‘‘believers’’ out there, and I am not qualified in the least to go into specific details on it,
that would be the others much more erudite on it than I anyway, but if I locate that thing I’ll link it because
it was quite a read which also broke down Jesus sayings on it, etc.
One of the risks, Karado, of posting around midnight after smoking too much dope is that your semi-coherent post will end up in the wrong thread. I think you meant this to go in one of Kneedragger’s other religious threads. Specifically, the Hell thread.
[quote]Karado wrote:
Then later deify you in the presence of other False Gods inside the ‘Pregnant’ Capitol Rotunda,
with the"Apotheosis Of Washington".
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=156079[/quote]
Yeah, kinda hard to claim Christian Nation status when you adorn your legislature rotunda with the pantheon of Roman gods, with your first president depicted as Jupiter.
To say a “Christian Nation” to me means that it was set up as a Theocracy. I do not think that was the founding father’s intention. Especially since most of them were Deists. A Deist, in a nut shell, believes that God created everything, set it in motion, and stepped back to see what would happen. Only rarely will he step in and make a change.
My bad…Actually I was only drinking Varq…I rarely do that, heh…2 Cuba Libre’s and I’m flyin’,
Harold Ramis unexpectedly showed up on Rush Street earlier mingling with a few people
last night and was kinda stoked to meet him…nice guy.
“Who ya gonna calll…Ghost Busters!!!”
That is not true…The vast majority of the founders who signed the DOI for example, were
Freemasons… meaning, not believers in the deity of Christ.
[quote]Karado wrote:
That is not true…The vast majority of the founders who signed the DOI for example, were
Freemasons… meaning, not believers in the deity of Christ.
[/quote]
That’s where it starts to get tricky. A lot of rank-and-file freemasons can and most likely do believe in the deity of Christ.
It is perhaps more straightforward in a short exposition on the relationship of the nation’s founding to Christianity, to simply point out: the founding documents are written in a manner that can be interpreted as consistent with Christianity or not; and some of the founding fathers’ writings seem to see Christian principles not as the measure of things, but rather as a glue to hold together the nation to support “higher” aims. The masonry thing requires a longer explanation; and states or implies cause-and-effect that seems plausible to me but is not provable.
This probably never actually happened.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
It was a Christian nation in the sense that the vast majority of its founding fathers, and its people, believed that Jesus Christ is God and is the Messiah and practiced the Christian religion in one of its various denominations.
That is unquestionable.[/quote]
Reverend Bird Wilson said otherwise, in 1831.
“The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity…Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism.”
Washington was no Christian. He never invoked the name of Jesus, never took communion, and hardly ever even said the word “God”. The painting of him praying at Valley Forge depicts an event for which there is no record, and the “Washington Prayer” is an embellished forgery. He has no quotes pertaining to his particular religious beliefs, but this one sums up his feeling about religious dispute:
“Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.”
John Adams, perhaps a bit too optimistic:
“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”
Jefferson’s quotes demonstrating his hostility toward religion in general and Christianity in particular are too many to list here, but this one is probably the most telling:
“Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.”
Benjamin Franklin shared many religious opinions with his protege, though was more sedate in stating them.
“As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity.”
Thomas Paine–even juicer than Jefferson!
[i]“Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies.”
“What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.”
“The story of Jesus Christ appearing after he was dead is the story of an apparition, such as timid imaginations can always create in vision, and credulity believe. Stories of this kind had been told of the assassination of Julius Caesar.”[/i]
I could go on, but this gives a good picture. Sure, there were some Christians around when the nation was founded, but what you had most of were Unitarians, Deists and infidels and freethinkers of various stripes. The ones who actually believed in Jesus as messiah or divine savior were relatively fewer and farther between, or at least, they didn’t bother to write their beliefs down for posterity.