Pushing harder is not the purpose of a deload in this context.
Maybe you are right that I need a deload from that aspect too, not just intensity/volume isolated to lifts and bar weight.
Does that mean you like option 1? OR neither.
I like neither. Take the week off from lifting and strenuous physical activity.
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Yeah Iām with Dagill just take 1-2 weeks off
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@dagill2 @aldebaran Thanks gents for your input.
- 1 week off,
- Daily hamstring rehab,
- Daily commute walking,
- Winding down for sleep yoga,
- and then I do something again on Saturday.
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I also agree with the taking 1-2 weeks off. I reckon it will help at least partially recover from your nagging aches. Since it seems you havenāt properly deloaded in a long time, you might be surprised by the results when you return.
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To be honest, Iām not entirely certain myself, but I do know that a major component on tendon and ligament integrity is collagen alignment and thickness.
One of the stereotypical changes of a tendinopathic tendon and a ruptured/sprained ligament is disorganised collagen. This collagen is created and maintained by fibroblasts, immature cells of tendons/ligaments. Fibroblasts are ātoldā what to do via the process of mechanotransduction, in which mechanical loading/strain of the tendon will activate fibroblast genes responsible for collagen maintainence/production. So, by applying load to a tendon, you create a mechanotransductive stimulus that promotes improved collagen alignment.
The question then becomes, how much load do you need? Research has almost always been undertaken with heavy loads in a standard resistance training program, and only really exists for patellar and Achilles tendons. These āstandardā loading protocols (e.g. 3-5 x 5-12, usually 3x per week) have been shown to be quite effective for these two tendinopathies.
In contrast, Simmons and the Westside crew all propose a management plan similar to what you describe, using a high frequency of low loads to promote fluid movement within the tendon. I suppose my only qualm with this method would be whether or not the loads used are heavy enough to produce enough strain in the tendon to create a meaningful collagen change. That said, many lifters report success with this approach so Iād be foolish to say it doesnāt work.
FWIW, Iām not sure how big of a deal fluid motion within the tendon is for healing. This is because tendinopathic tendons tend to actually be more hydrated and more vascular than healthy tendons, not the other way around. That said, I am not a physiology buff and this information could be outdated and/or misinterpreted
The unfortunate reality is that avascular connective tissues take longer times to heal. Iād bet youāre only dealing with inflammation, so you only need to give the tendon time to heal. But for others itās quite tragic, when they suffer from something like osteoarthritis or rheumatoid arthritis. The cartilage simply wears away, and currently there is no true solution to regenerate it and therefore improve a patientās quality of life.
Iām not saying that your theory on flexor/extensor balance is untrue, but given that you seemingly havenāt let your body properly rest in a long time, have you considered that perhaps have tendon synovitis? The synovium plays a big role in connective tissue health but is unfortunately often forgotten. It seems you know a thing or two about the synovium, but the issue may be simpler than you realize ā your synovial fluid is absent or has dramatically diminished, so there is no longer a lubricant surrounding the tendon. You would need to reduce the inflammation by avoiding the repetitive movements that got you there in the first place.
The synovial fluid is very important all around.
This is false. If painful tendons are inflamed (which isnāt always the case) the inflammation is considered incidental and unrelated to the pain someone experiences. In fact, we donāt actually know what causes tendinopathic tendons to hurt. Giving tendons time to heal is also the exact opposite way to manage tendinopathy
Tenosynovitis affects portions of tendons contained within synovial sheaths, such as those located at the wrist and ankle. The common flexor tendon, where @voxel describes his pain, does not have a synovial sheath and therefore cannot develop tenosynovitis
That said, I do agree with you that this issue is far more likely to be a workload issue than a flexor:extensor ratio issue
Itās going to be one. Iām trying to chalk up āeasyā wins to build a streak of success. Taking two weeks off is a big ask. Iād also feel bad about unscheduling a joint climbing session with three friends on Saturday.
Two might be better, but Iād rather do something kind of right than something completely wrong and Iām done gambling with my psyche by whatās better on paper. Baby steps.
@j4gga2 @Bagsy I fear Iāve lead you two astray with my tendon āideaā. It did not relate to my tendinosis in the elbow and was a mulling on my part on how to pre-hab finger tendons and make them strong as they can be. Had an idea of super easy hangs, combined with dumbbell finger rolls, vitamin C and collagen as an almost daily prescription to make them as healthy as possible.
Apologies, for I did not discern which tendon was affected. I hope Iām not giving the impression that Iām simply Googling things and hoping they make sense. Iām not a medical doctor but have done research in the musculoskeletal space. Admittedly (and clearly) I have never worked specifically with tendons, so I shouldnāt have said anything.
For your tendon issues, have you tried glucosamine?
My grandpa has severe ankle tendonitis and glucosamine seems to help
interesting. Why the vitamin C? Does it help with assimalation?
I agree, you got yourself down a deload rabbit hole. Just take a few weeks off, get out of your own way.
Sometimes in a deload week Iāll try something different to keep my mind psyched. Iāve gone to a bjj class or planned some mountain walks or long bike rides. Go dancing, ski touring, big yoga sessions, whatever.
For tendons, every year I used to take the whole of October off climbing. It worked with the seasons of UK climbing and October is statistically wetter. It helped, I had very few injuries.
The one injury I couldnāt shift was inflamed finger joints, tried everything including specialists. It was fixed by a yoga instructor who noticed that I never fully straightened my fingers in downward facing dog. I always had the claw. She gently straightened them, I saw the colour change in my finger. Iām just mindful now in downward dog and my fingers are good.
Edit, just saw @j4gga2 post about tendons. Heās more right then me, itās how Iād manage an injury of that type now. But that month off helped, other climbers picked up on it as well. Maybe it was the other stuff I did in that month that helped.
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No, I believe the best things here arenāt supplements but adequate nutrition and adequate work volume. But Iāve had positive experiences with glycine/collagen. Iāve just not used it at all for a while
Allegedly
Right now Iāll just take a proper week off and then come back to training. I have an idea for how my return looks, and Iāll also re-implement my scheduled deloads to not end up here again. Not sure how I fell out of that routine, I just did. Iāll reserve these ideas for then, but as @dagill2 s replies hints at I might not be the best individual to just change stimuli up as I might still overdo things and thus fail at deloading.
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@dagill2 @bagsy @aldebaran @tails1 thank you all for weighing in today. Will think back on this if I find it hard to keep myself from training.
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Itās hard at first, but when youāre halwfay through or done with it and realize no muscle/strength was lost (because even if it did, it can be regained super quickly), and you have less pain it feels so worthy.
Been dealing with a few elbow and scapular pain for a while. Last 3 weeks zero arms work, and back work halved. And well it feel so good right now getting freed of these pains! Want to go back at it fresh, and keep doing rehab stuff.
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Smart man
Yep. If you get weak in a week: you already were.
Iām reasonably sure that if you were reading this in others logs: youād give the same advice we did.
Still needed the voice of reason to come from outside today and so I appreciate it. Iād be killer successful if I listened to myself coach myself.
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Preaching to the choir there my man. As Dan John has plagiarised: āThe trainer who coaches himself has an idiot for a clientā. Very true in my case, hence my much talked about (by me) year of 531. Less think, more do.
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