JeffR,
you are a true poet! 
Makkun
[quote]ConorM wrote:
Organized religion had its grip on the world for far too long and now hopefully the world will start slowly to free itself from it and instead it will become a much more personal thing. Only then will our world start to become truly free.[/quote]
You’re fooling yourself if you think organized religion will ever end. Even more so if you think it will result in a better world.
[quote] jnevin wrote:
You’re fooling yourself if you think organized religion will ever end. Even more so if you think it will result in a better world. [/quote]
I’m not trying to rathole this thread, but - why is he fooling himself to think the world would be a better place in the absence of organized religion?
[quote]merc63 wrote:
jnevin wrote:
You’re fooling yourself if you think organized religion will ever end. Even more so if you think it will result in a better world.
I’m not trying to rathole this thread, but - why is he fooling himself to think the world would be a better place in the absence of organized religion?
[/quote]
Well, why would it? How would it change the world in a positive way? Do you think wars will stop? Sorry, but that’s simply naive. There are good and bad things that come with organized religion, just like with everything. What you see as good and what you see as bad is entirely up to you.
[quote]jnevin wrote:
Well, why would it? How would it change the world in a positive way? Do you think wars will stop? Sorry, but that’s simply naive. There are good and bad things that come with organized religion, just like with everything. What you see as good and what you see as bad is entirely up to you.[/quote]
dont strawman. the lack of organized religion doesn’t mean a lack of war.
although, a complete lack of organized religion is naive and useless because religion (belief system) is fundamental to consciousness. only when it is made into something it isn’t optimally (the contemporary organization of religion) is it a problem.
in a nutshell, i believe organized religion should be the organized belief that only you can find and know your own truth and that each and every organism is the same as you inasmuch as they and only they can find and know their own truth.
contemporary organized religion likes to tell us how it is primarily based on what others have written on paper.
the age in which society understands what the pioneering theoretical physicists of our age understand, that is, that every microcosm has its own macrocosm and every macrocosm is its own microcosm, will be a great age.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
dont strawman. the lack of organized religion doesn’t mean a lack of war.
although, a complete lack of organized religion is naive and useless because religion (belief system) is fundamental to consciousness. only when it is made into something it isn’t optimally (the contemporary organization of religion) is it a problem.
in a nutshell, i believe organized religion should be the organized belief that only you can find and know your own truth and that each and every organism is the same as you inasmuch as they and only they can find and know their own truth.
contemporary organized religion likes to tell us how it is primarily based on what others have written on paper.
the age in which society understands what the pioneering theoretical physicists of our age understand, that is, that every microcosm has its own macrocosm and every macrocosm is its own microcosm, will be a great age.[/quote]
That’s because you’re completely discounting the possibility of God. That’s fine. I don’t believe in him either. But your beliefs are essentially that. An opinion. They’re like assholes, everyone has them.
You’re talking about a world where everyone thinks alike. You think this would be a good thing? I like the fact that not everyone understands what the “pioneering theoretical physicists of our age understand.” Where’s the fun in what you described? How would that theoretically make our world better?
Maybe for you.
[quote]jnevin wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
dont strawman. the lack of organized religion doesn’t mean a lack of war.
although, a complete lack of organized religion is naive and useless because religion (belief system) is fundamental to consciousness. only when it is made into something it isn’t optimally (the contemporary organization of religion) is it a problem.
in a nutshell, i believe organized religion should be the organized belief that only you can find and know your own truth and that each and every organism is the same as you inasmuch as they and only they can find and know their own truth.
contemporary organized religion likes to tell us how it is primarily based on what others have written on paper.
the age in which society understands what the pioneering theoretical physicists of our age understand, that is, that every microcosm has its own macrocosm and every macrocosm is its own microcosm, will be a great age.
That’s because you’re completely discounting the possibility of God. That’s fine. I don’t believe in him either. But your beliefs are essentially that. An opinion. They’re like assholes, everyone has them.
You’re talking about a world where everyone thinks alike. You think this would be a good thing? I like the fact that not everyone understands what the “pioneering theoretical physicists of our age understand.” Where’s the fun in what you described? How would that theoretically make our world better?
Maybe for you.[/quote]
im “completely discounting the possibility of God?” no, im giving God a different definition.
“my beliefs are an opinion?” no, opinion is that pizza tastes good. fact is that pizza has taste. the idea i described about micro and macro lend more to the latter.
“a world where everyone thinks alike?” didn’t i say “each and every organism,” and that we all fall into the category of what i proposed an optimal belief system is? last time i checked a tiger is a lot different than a meteor.
didn’t i basically say “to each their own?” doesn’t that imply that each will develope their own differences?
the beliefs i proposed cater to individual purpose. organized religion tries to do this by replacing purpose onto another (i.e. God). problems arise with this because it is a moot point that the uncontrollable is the main determinant of the feel and direction of your life.
again, beware of strawmen.
wufwugy,
You just made my head hurt.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
jnevin wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
dont strawman. the lack of organized religion doesn’t mean a lack of war.
although, a complete lack of organized religion is naive and useless because religion (belief system) is fundamental to consciousness. only when it is made into something it isn’t optimally (the contemporary organization of religion) is it a problem.
in a nutshell, i believe organized religion should be the organized belief that only you can find and know your own truth and that each and every organism is the same as you inasmuch as they and only they can find and know their own truth.
contemporary organized religion likes to tell us how it is primarily based on what others have written on paper.
the age in which society understands what the pioneering theoretical physicists of our age understand, that is, that every microcosm has its own macrocosm and every macrocosm is its own microcosm, will be a great age.
im “completely discounting the possibility of God?” no, im giving God a different definition.
“my beliefs are an opinion?” no, opinion is that pizza tastes good. fact is that pizza has taste. the idea i described about micro and macro lend more to the latter.
“a world where everyone thinks alike?” didn’t i say “each and every organism,” and that we all fall into the category of what i proposed an optimal belief system is? last time i checked a tiger is a lot different than a meteor.
didn’t i basically say “to each their own?” doesn’t that imply that each will develope their own differences?
the beliefs i proposed cater to individual purpose. organized religion tries to do this by replacing purpose onto another (i.e. God). problems arise with this because it is a moot point that the uncontrollable is the main determinant of the feel and direction of your life.
again, beware of strawmen.[/quote]
Okay, first of all, you completely dodged my original question. How will the dissapearance of organized religion better the world?
You fail to understand what I mean by “a world where everyone thinks alike.” Do you not see that most people don’t look any deeper than what’s presented to them?
“that is, that every microcosm has its own macrocosm and every macrocosm is its own microcosm, will be a great age.” This line right here is implying that the world would be better if everyone saw things the way you do. That’s what it’s IMPLYING. I’m not trying to strawman you in any way. Your arguments are being presented in a fashion that leads me to believe something different than your actual meaning.
Btw - I love the term “strawman.” I’m gonna start using this in my every day life. Like seriously rampant overusage.
I’m going out for the night - gonna go strawman some bitches.
[quote]jnevin wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
jnevin wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
dont strawman. the lack of organized religion doesn’t mean a lack of war.
although, a complete lack of organized religion is naive and useless because religion (belief system) is fundamental to consciousness. only when it is made into something it isn’t optimally (the contemporary organization of religion) is it a problem.
in a nutshell, i believe organized religion should be the organized belief that only you can find and know your own truth and that each and every organism is the same as you inasmuch as they and only they can find and know their own truth.
contemporary organized religion likes to tell us how it is primarily based on what others have written on paper.
the age in which society understands what the pioneering theoretical physicists of our age understand, that is, that every microcosm has its own macrocosm and every macrocosm is its own microcosm, will be a great age.
im “completely discounting the possibility of God?” no, im giving God a different definition.
“my beliefs are an opinion?” no, opinion is that pizza tastes good. fact is that pizza has taste. the idea i described about micro and macro lend more to the latter.
“a world where everyone thinks alike?” didn’t i say “each and every organism,” and that we all fall into the category of what i proposed an optimal belief system is? last time i checked a tiger is a lot different than a meteor.
didn’t i basically say “to each their own?” doesn’t that imply that each will develope their own differences?
the beliefs i proposed cater to individual purpose. organized religion tries to do this by replacing purpose onto another (i.e. God). problems arise with this because it is a moot point that the uncontrollable is the main determinant of the feel and direction of your life.
again, beware of strawmen.
Okay, first of all, you completely dodged my original question. How will the dissapearance of organized religion better the world?
You fail to understand what I mean by “a world where everyone thinks alike.” Do you not see that most people don’t look any deeper than what’s presented to them?
“that is, that every microcosm has its own macrocosm and every macrocosm is its own microcosm, will be a great age.” This line right here is implying that the world would be better if everyone saw things the way you do. [/quote]
“most people don’t look any deeper than what’s presented to them” really? if that’s true then “what’s presented to them” is the “looking deep.” im sure others breathe like i breathe, eat like i eat, and think like i think.
the micro/macro statement was meant as an explanation of the relativity of things. so yes, i did say that the world would be a better place if everybody understood relativity.
as far as your original question, if i did dodge it i didn’t intend to. when writing my previous post i was trying not to. in fact, after reviewing my previous post i came across “problems arise with this (displacing power onto something other than yourself) because it is a moot point that the uncontrollable is the main determinant of the feel and direction of your life.” in retrospect, this was in answer to your original question.
but i’ll try and be succinct: the disappearance of the displacing of power (contemporary organized religions do this) will make the world a better place because blame could not be put elsewhere. contemporary organized religion is very good at doing this.
although, i’ll admit i may be creating another strawman by saying that organized religion is the sole blame for this. gee, that last statement makes me look like a hypocrite…
So Liberals are snobby because they want to tell people how to live (supposedly)? Isnt that the basis of a PARTY PLATFORM!? You think you have the best ways to govern peoples lives and you present them to get voted upon. I don’t think many right wing-christian conservatives would agree that its right to abort fetuses (consequently, I don’t see many of them adopting these poor, unwanted, unfortunate babies when they are carried to term either…funny how that works).
The reason Ann Coulter is even remotely popular is beacuse she is a bomb-throwing extremist. She says stuff that is totally out of control and gets recognized for it.
If you want to find a lie ann coulter has told simply go to Google and type in “Ann Coulter Lies” and you’ll find PLENTY.
I am an atheist, and tend to be conservative.
I do not belong to any political party. I have trouble with all of them.
As I left religion, and became an atheist, I actually became more conservative. There seems to be this idea that if you no longer believe in a god, you must disagree with everything religion believes in, and this is just not right.
While I do not believe in a god, I do believe that religion is founded on rules of life, most of which are true. And these rules have been developed over not just centuries, but millennia.
A religious man explained the whole idea of sin to me. (I forget who.) That sin is simply selfishness. And to eliminate sin is to put others to as high as a level as you. How many religions espouse the golden rule in some form or another?
Then there are morals. I have morals, and attempt to improve my morals most of the time. In fact I embrace the Kaizen philosophy of continuous gradual improvement.
Now taken to another level, all action is selfish. And the intelligent truly knows that doing good, and making the world a better place benefits the person in the long run.
Yes I believe in a karma of sorts. Maybe not that you will be punished by coming back as a sea slug, but that what you do will come back to you, and bite you in the end, or reward you. You drive like an idiot, you end up with high insurance rates, and in more accidents. You treat your girlfriend like shit, she later cuts off your balls in your sleep, or something like that
Now one of the first things people need to do is quit hating others because they have different beliefs. I keep hearing how religion has killed more people then anything else, which is crap. But on the other side, I have heard about how evil atheists are, although the real vocal ones make it seem like it.
Then there is the whole conservative liberal thing. These are two competing philosophies, but that does not mean either one is evil. But logic should prevail, and it is unfortunate that many ignore logic on the issues. Sure many of the issues are of opinion only, but most are a matter of logic. And if history repeatedly bears out certain facts, how can you argue with it? Yet many try.
What we need to keep in mind is that both philosophies (liberal and conservative) are thought to benefit the world. We need to keep in mind that the other side is not evil, and trying to do evil things. Liberals believe social programs help people, and should be expanded to help as many people as possible, while conservatives believe that these programs, if carried too far, actually cause more problems then they cure, and leave people more helpless.
I actually believe in a balance between the two philosophies. That social programs can be of benefit, and should exist, but not in their current form. I believe that this country has moved too far to the left, and should be pushed back to the right. Although I also believe that our system of government actually is taking care of that right now with a big push to the right.
At some point in time I might believe it has moved too far to the right, and then I would be a liberal.
Now back to religion, I am seriously looking into becoming a Jedi. I kind of like the idea of a religion where you get super powers, and are allowed to kick ass. But I don’t know about that no sex thing.
Athiest lefty here.
Where you been, RSU? I kinda missed ya.
Did you notice that RSU came back to answer a question on my thread 
I always knew he liked me…
I believe that God exists and I see him every day in the mirror.
[quote]Al Shades wrote:
I believe that God exists and I see him every day in the mirror.[/quote]
Oh… man. I hope nobody else sees this.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
However, I’m fiercely pro-war, and I believe that the answer to our problems is not more government control of us, but less. There is a difference between having a government with a lot of power to exert in the world, and a government with a lot of control over its constituents. I say stop making bullshit laws.[/quote]
The idea of a government which has the power to rule the entire world not misusing that power at home is an idyllic fantasy. When I was young, I used to think that only 5 year olds held such beliefs. Then I met the “adult” world. What are you smoking, honestly? Some misc. quotes to knock some sense into your head [yeah, right]:
The great error of nearly all studies of war… has been to consider war as an episode in foreign policies, when it is an act of interior politics…
~Simone Weil
We may extend our dominion over the whole continent…but be assured it will be at the price of our free institutions.
~Rep. William Waters Boyce
Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
~George Washington
Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
~James Madison
Every nation has its war party. It is not the party of democracy. It is the party of autocracy. It seeks to dominate absolutely.
~Senator Robert M. La Follette
Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificually induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear.
~General Douglas MacArthur
A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.
~Alexander Solzhenitsyn
No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
~James Madison
…Violence as a way of gaining power…is being camouflaged under the guise of tradition, national honor [and] national security…
~Alfred Adler
The dangerous patriot…is a defender of militarism and its ideals of war and glory.
~Colonel James A. Donovan, Marine Corps
We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower
The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad.
~James Madison
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
~James Madison
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
~Abraham Lincoln
I’m not trying to enlighten you, because I realize that would be nearly impossible (short of brain surgery). I was merely bored when I made this post and felt like picking out some delicious quotes.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
non religious, firm believer in right and wrong conservative libertarian with anger management problems, according to Il Cazzo.[/quote]
You’re a neo-conservative, certainly not a traditional conservative or a libertarian. Basically, you’re a liberal chickenhawk.
Al: That’s a whole lot of quotes. But I think that something my grandfather said to me a long time ago trumps them all:
“Why be a pussy if you don’t have to be?”
Maybe I do need brain surgery. I just can’t be scared of The Man running my life when it’s so obvious to me that as an American, I have the power to guide my own destiny.