Non-Christian Liberals

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Jersey5150 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I’m an anti-religion christian conservative.

That sounds intresting explain if you will.

I am a non-religious liberal.

My faith in Jesus Christ as my personal savior is just that - personal.

Most all modern religionbs hve been bastardized to the point that they give lip service to why they should be gathering together, and are more concerned with playing games. This does two things:

  1. It defeats the purpose of meeting together for the sake of encouragement, which is why early believers met together.

  2. It gives ammo to those who hate the church, and gives christians a bad name.

I refuse to accept that there will only be baptists(insert any denomnination) in heaven, and I won’t support any denomination that thinks so highly of themselves as to think that they have a monopoly God’s mercy and love.

Religion is a game, that if played correctly lands you further away from dependance on God and much much closer to dependance on yourself acting good. That is an abomination to the teachings of Christ.

That is why I am anti-religion.[/quote]

Rainjack - Totally agree with you here. People should remember that there is a huge difference between religion and faith. Religion is a group of people getting together, whereas faith is a personal experience. I don’t attend a church or identify myself with any religion, yet have a strong belief in the man upstairs.

22

[quote]rainjack wrote:
My faith in Jesus Christ as my personal savior is just that - personal.

Most all modern religionbs hve been bastardized to the point that they give lip service to why they should be gathering together, and are more concerned with playing games. This does two things:

  1. It defeats the purpose of meeting together for the sake of encouragement, which is why early believers met together.

  2. It gives ammo to those who hate the church, and gives christians a bad name.

I refuse to accept that there will only be baptists(insert any denomnination) in heaven, and I won’t support any denomination that thinks so highly of themselves as to think that they have a monopoly God’s mercy and love.

Religion is a game, that if played correctly lands you further away from dependance on God and much much closer to dependance on yourself acting good. That is an abomination to the teachings of Christ.

That is why I am anti-religion.[/quote]

Just wanted to say I really respect your thoughts above, and they just augment my heartfelt opinion (even as the atheist liberal I am) that Christianity is nobody’s enemy – religion (in general) is the enemy – and a very large and dangerous enemy at that.

23

Liberal ex-Catholic.

24

non religious, firm believer in right and wrong conservative libertarian with anger management problems, according to Il Cazzo.

25

ATHEISM RULES!!!

Also, I would have to say that I’m quite liberal on many issues such as abortion, gay marriage, etc.

However, I’m fiercely pro-war, and I believe that the answer to our problems is not more government control of us, but less. There is a difference between having a government with a lot of power to exert in the world, and a government with a lot of control over its constituents. I say stop making bullshit laws.

Basically, I consider myself very Pro-American, and when that involves getting out there and kicking somebody’s ass I’m all into it. If it’s rescuing folks from the aftermath of a tsunami, I’m all into it. I like how we are not resting on our laurels as the lone superpower in the world. I like how we are getting out there and making a difference. It feels good.

Being a moderate is lately becoming a way to say that you’re wishy-washy, I think. I am not wishy-washy about anything, but I don’t fully subscribe to any side completely, so I guess that I could be defined as a moderate. Confusing.

26

[quote]ConorM wrote:
“im non-christian, yet very much like christians in that i believe in morality”

Are you saying most atheists do not believe in morality? Or that most atheists do not believe in their being a definitive morality? It sounds like you mean the first but I assume its not the case.
[/quote]

im saying that my experiences with most atheists are that they tend to transfer the prefix “a” onto the word “morality,” thus “doing whatever they want” without actually doing what they want.

im saying that most atheists don’t know what they believe yet say (to themselves and/or others) that they do.

27

[quote]wufwugy wrote:
im saying that my experiences with most atheists are that they tend to transfer the prefix “a” onto the word “morality,” thus “doing whatever they want” without actually doing what they want.

im saying that most atheists don’t know what they believe yet say (to themselves and/or others) that they do.[/quote]

Wugy: I could take this even further, and say that most of my experiences with fellow atheists is that they aren’t atheist at all, merely anti-christian. It’s almost like it’s fashionable to say “There is no God” and then rail against christian beliefs like they are the sum of all that is wrong with the world, or some crap like that. The last time I checked, being a good christian wasn’t such a bad thing. I just could never do it myself, because of the fact that I can’t believe in a higher intelligent power which guides us in some benevolent way.

28

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
im saying that my experiences with most atheists are that they tend to transfer the prefix “a” onto the word “morality,” thus “doing whatever they want” without actually doing what they want.

im saying that most atheists don’t know what they believe yet say (to themselves and/or others) that they do.

Wugy: I could take this even further, and say that most of my experiences with fellow atheists is that they aren’t atheist at all, merely anti-christian. It’s almost like it’s fashionable to say “There is no God” and then rail against christian beliefs like they are the sum of all that is wrong with the world, or some crap like that. The last time I checked, being a good christian wasn’t such a bad thing. I just could never do it myself, because of the fact that I can’t believe in a higher intelligent power which guides us in some benevolent way.

[/quote]

I agree, a lot of Atheists are just so because they don’t go to church, but I think you’ll find an awful lot (the majority I’d say, but then England is more secular) who think of religion as superstition and who have obviously given the whole thing some modicum of thought. I’m not sure aout good Xtians being good people though. Too often people are greedy, profit-motivated, family/friend/people negating ‘go-getters’ who excuse their obscene consumption with an hour of prayer on the weekend. They’re heralded as good Xtians for that. hmmm. I think the ‘protestant work ethic’ which Weber wrote on, and then Cambell updated, has reached its limitations. People are prepared say ‘profit is good’ but have forgotten why, culturally, we consider things so, i.e. pre-ordination as espoused by Calvinism and Methodism (so if you’ve got lots of ‘things’ its a sign from God you must be ‘chosen’). I think consumption is ok, but only when its done responsibly and ethically. As the world spirals toward environmental collapse its easy to sight who set us up for it: the more puritan end of Protestantism. So called ‘Good xtians’ have a lot to answer for.

29

I’m agnostic and fairly liberal. I’ve been exposed to many religions, and have concluded that it causes most people to pay lip service and not actually change themselves. I think it’s shameful how so many people can associate themselves with their respective religions and taint those otherwise respectable institution. Many religions have great philosophies, but theoretical and applied are never the same.

30

It seems that I was not far off with my association of liberals also being Athiests.

31

[quote] Zeb wrote:
It seems that I was not far off with my association of liberals also being Athiests.[/quote]

mostly liberal and agnostic

There’s a difference between being a non-christian and being an atheiest. The inability or unwillingness among SOME (note: I’m not saying ‘all’ or ‘most’) Christians to understand and/or acknowledge that difference is very frustrating.

Most of the people who said they were liberal identified themselves as being either non-christian or agnostic.

On the flip side, if there is anyone out there who considers themself to be socially conservative (on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, right to die, etc.) and who is also not a christian, I’d be interested to hear your point of view.

32

[quote]ZEB wrote:
It seems that I was not far off with my association of liberals also being Athiests.[/quote]

perhaps, but as a liberal/atheist i will not vote liberally as long as they wanna take our guns and give our country away.

besides, i learn more politics from South Park than anything else, and from the mouths of matt and trey, “we hate republicans, but we really fucking hate liberals.”

33

I’m a freak. I’m an “evangelical” christian and for the most part I DON’T like North American right-wing politicians.I’m not particularly fond of liberals either but I see them as the lesser of two evils.

34

ZEB,

[quote]ZEB wrote:
It seems that I was not far off with my association of liberals also being Athiests.[/quote]

In my case it is surely true. Having been been raised Christian, my liberal views did not allow me to stay in the (lutheran) church. After many years as an Agnostic, and having had experience with Buddhism (as philosophy and organised religion), I came to the realisation that my problem was with religions (including Buddhism) in general, not just the Christian one. So I turned from Agnostic slowly to Atheist.

All this took about 15 years, but it was essentially my (liberal) views that started the process, so you could argue my liberalism and my atheism are related.

Makkun

35

“Basically, I consider myself very Pro-American, and when that involves getting out there and kicking somebody’s ass I’m all into it.”

Well you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, and being pro-american is no bad thing, but this statement is so gung-ho it makes it seem like you have blind devotion to the flag. Not arguing against the pro war stance (although I am) but you should at least think that maybe your government is your own countries worst enemy in certain cases. Being pro-war is not being pro-american necessarily. I am not starting an anti0war debate thing here I did that on another thread already when some people pissed me off.

You are right about a lot of atheists not knowing what they believe, a lot less people believe in God or go to church nowadays and they label themselves atheist, a lot of them have just lost faith in their religion and are confused.

I am not one of those, I definately do NOT believe in God. I don’t go around saying Christianity is bad or anything like some, but I do think that organized religion is a very dangerous thing. Extremism in the Middle east is one thing but a lot closer to home Catholicism can be equally so, or baptism, anything.

I also believe people stopping believing in God is a good thing. Not just because I personally think a lot more people are opening their eyes to the truth (personal opinion), but also because it means that religious people are much more likely to debate and question their faith. Its only when you do this that your faith truly means anything. Being taugh from a young age belief with no alternative and then never questioning it is a false kind of faith in my opinion. Organized religion had its grip on the world for far too long and now hopefully the world will start slowly to free itself from it and instead it will become a much more personal thing. Only then will our world start to become truly free.

36

ConorM: Right now, being pro-American in my point of view means kicking somebody’s ass. We kinda had a little problem with a few airplanes getting hijacked a couple of years ago, and ever since then it’s been “ALL RIGHT YOU ASSHOLES – NO MORE MR. NICE GUY!!!”

But we ended up doing humanitarian stuff, too, anyway. I think the fundamental schism between the pro-war and anti-war people lies in how we decide to deal with dangerous people. The liberal slant has been “let’s talk, and talk some more, and find any reason NOT to fight…” while the less-liberal slant has been “This is not helping. We’ve got no choice but to kick someone’s ass. Are you gonna help out or not?” Both sides have their pluses and minuses. I just happen to see more pluses by taking action, that’s all. We talked, it didn’t work. Let’s do something else. Sorry if it means being violent.

Is that too gung-ho? Maybe it is. Anyway, being pro-war and liberal on many other social issues is confusing sometimes… at least in this forum. I don’t have a “niche” around here, so when we start going at it, I end up semi-vehemently arguing with some of my internet friends in one thread, while supporting them in a different one. Like I said, it’s very confusing sometimes. :slight_smile:

37

[quote]ConorM wrote:
it means that religious people are much more likely to debate and question their faith. Its only when you do this that your faith truly means anything. Being taugh from a young age belief with no alternative and then never questioning it is a [/quote]

I actually agree with this. My pastor once said during a sermon “If you’ve never questioned your faith that means you’ve probably never done any serious thinking about it”.

38

[quote]ConorM wrote:
Organized religion had its grip on the world for far too long and now hopefully the world will start slowly to free itself from it and instead it will become a much more personal thing. Only then will our world start to become truly free.[/quote]

paradise

39

I worship CHALCHIUHTLICUE. She was Aztec goddess of running Water. You do know that she was the sister of Tlaloc.

Think about it. Without running water, none of the major religious figures could have survived.

Therefore, my God is all powerful.

Thanks,

JeffR

40

I found a good general description of my deity.

Please look under www.thaliatook.com/chalchiuhtlicue.html

There is a fine picture.

I wanted post it in it’s entirety along with some commentary.

“Chalchiuhtlicue is the Aztec goddess of running water and springs, rivers and lakes, who brings fertility to crops.”

You eat from Chalchiuhtlicue’s bounty.

“Her name means “Woman of the Jade Skirt”.”

There is NOTHING sexier than a jade skirt.

“She is wife or sister to Tlaloc, the rain god.”

That goes without saying.

“Though Tlaloc was a benevolent god, many children and babies were sacrificed to Him.”

I don’t like this part.

“If the children cried on the way to being killed, it was a sign that rain would come, and the populace rejoiced.”

Or this.

“Chalchiuhtlicue was the protectress of children and new-borns, perhaps because it was thought She could influence Her husband.”

I like this about her. If more nagging led to less children being sacrificed, I’m all for it.

“She also protected fishermen,”

Nothing could be more noble than protecting fishermen.

“and reigned over a part of the night with eight other deities,”

Doesn’t everyone love a good woman of the night?

“including Tlaloc and Tlazolteotl, who were said to have created the world.”

See. She was a pal of the big fellas!!!

In short, she is fantastic.

Therefore, I am fantastic.

Thanks!!!

JeffR