This follow up was done by the same guy who did the first study that everyone else seems to be referencing. Also, a larger, more recently conducted study also finds a similar result.
S
Maybe. I don’t really care about “sensitivity”. Wheat has a huge independent correlation to many cancers, diabetes, heart disease and obesity.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/07/the-china-study-evidence-for-the-perfect-health-diet/
"Why does Campbell indict animal foods in cardiovascular disease (correlation of +1 for animal protein and -11 for fish protein), yet fail to mention that wheat flour has a correlation of +67 with heart attacks and coronary heart disease, and plant protein correlates at +25 with these conditions?
Speaking of wheat, why doesn?t Campbell also note the astronomical correlations wheat flour has with various diseases: +46 with cervix cancer, +54 with hypertensive heart disease, +47 with stroke, +41 with diseases of the blood and blood-forming organs, and the aforementioned +67 with myocardial infarction and coronary heart disease? (None of these correlations appear to be tangled with any risk-heightening variables, either.) [2]" “In fact, the correlation coefficient of rice with heart disease deaths is -58%, almost the opposite of the +67% for wheat. Other grains had a correlation coefficient of +39%. [4] So: rice good, other grains bad, wheat worst of all.”
When I cut wheat, my chronic nasal inflammation that had lasted 10 years went away in 48 hours. When I have added it back, it has come back the same day. Maybe its a placebo effect, but I’ll take a placebo that brings my blood pressure down from 145/95 to 110/70 and my bodyfat from 24-12% in 3 months.
ha, “nine days worth of urine and fecal matter would be collected”
I’m glad you posted this because I was looking for defenses of bread the other day (to justify my consumption, of course), and the closest
I could find was this, http://blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/2011/02/in_defense_of_bread.php , which didn’t seem like the greatest peace of research to me. However, if you read the comments, you can see that “Gluten free” isn’t going anywhere. Folks have bought in too much. The comments go, “well, research shows that gluten isn’t so bad,” with the replies being “well, just try it for a couple months, and then tell me that,” or “look at asians,” without people realizing it’s probably the overall reduction in carbs or whatever. Other attacks on bread include the lack of nutrition in wheat flour without acknowledging that allowing yeast to break it down first substantially improves nutrition.
[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
However, if you read the comments, you can see that “Gluten free” isn’t going anywhere. Folks have bought in too much. [/quote]
Lol, oh yeah, there’s too much money tied up in the gluten free movement. I have no doubt that there are real medical issues some people honestly have to deal with, but the huge population of people who feel they need to avoid Gluten for reasons they can’t even explain just makes me laugh.
If you haven’t already seen it, give this a watch ^
[quote] Mertdog wrote:
Maybe its a placebo effect, but I’ll take a placebo that brings my blood pressure down from 145/95 to 110/70 and my bodyfat from 24-12% in 3 months.[/quote]
The blood pressure I can’t comment on, I’m no doctor, but I find it hard to believe that removing the gluten was the sole factor in your halving your bodyfat.
I was speaking at a nutrition seminar at a sports performance center last summer, and in discussing gluten, one of a few college professors in attendance shared the story of how her graduate students studied people on diets containing gluten vs gluten free diets. The gluten free group lost noticeable weight, which seemed to be enough for most people to jump to quick conclusions.
She then explained that upon further examination of the detailed diets of participants over a lengthy period, the simple fact that gluten free foods aren’t as tasty led to the people in that particular group eating less total foods, and less carbohydrates overall whether they intended to or not.
S
Well losing 25 pounds will have that effect on BP. I also had to cook all my own food because there were not many places I could go without wheat and high omega 6 oils, which were the two main things I cut out.
But the reason for the weight loss was that I cut 25% of my calories. The problem was that before, with my nasal inflammation at night, I would wake up and have to eat to fall back asleep, every stinking night. I battled it. When I cut the wheat I slept through the night right away. I also absolutely stopped feeling like I needed Iburprofen. I do think wheat gave me headaches and I took 4-8 a day. Now I never take them.
And that can lower BP too. As can of course cooking your own food and limiting sugar.
Maybe its the wheat, maybe its the carbs, maybe its in my mind.
Paul Jaminet wrote the perfect health diet. He started out thinking that he was going to come up with a vegan diet to optimize health, and his research led him the other direction, basically to the conclusion that cereal, sugar and omega 6 “antinutrients” were the 3 main culprits, to nutritionally related health problems. He believes, from his research, that wheat is toxic to EVERYONE in pretty much anything over trace amounts.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
When I cut wheat, my chronic nasal inflammation that had lasted 10 years went away in 48 hours. When I have added it back, it has come back the same day. Maybe its a placebo effect, but I’ll take a placebo that brings my blood pressure down from 145/95 to 110/70 and my bodyfat from 24-12% in 3 months. [/quote]
I notice the same two effects - one related to nasal inflammation and the other related to mild plaque psoriasis. I would postulate that it could, however, be related to something else added into wheat products besides the gluten proteins themselves. I don’t know, but anecdotally speaking, there is something at work here within my own body.
In regards to gluten free leading to weight loss, etc. When one basically cuts out a major food group, weight loss is to be expected. This is going to be especially true to wheat products since virtually all the carbs one finds in the supermarket has wheat as a major carb source.
So here’s the formula:
Over-eating carbs (which most likely are going to contain wheat) ='s negative body composition. Yeah, if limit your carb source to gluten free, you’ve essentially cut out a LOT of carb foods. What does one expect? Of course it’s most likely one would lose weight because on is no longer eating so excessively.
Granted there are those whom react badly to gluten and certain carbs, but that’s more of a food sensitivity or even simpler, compromised insulin response.
[quote]kissdadookie wrote:
In regards to gluten free leading to weight loss, etc. When one basically cuts out a major food group, weight loss is to be expected. This is going to be especially true to wheat products since virtually all the carbs one finds in the supermarket has wheat as a major carb source.
So here’s the formula:
Over-eating carbs (which most likely are going to contain wheat) ='s negative body composition. Yeah, if limit your carb source to gluten free, you’ve essentially cut out a LOT of carb foods. What does one expect? Of course it’s most likely one would lose weight because on is no longer eating so excessively.
Granted there are those whom react badly to gluten and certain carbs, but that’s more of a food sensitivity or even simpler, compromised insulin response. [/quote]
This
I have yet to see a good article that isn’t looking at celiac that shows gluten free is gonna help much of anything other than control and forcing people to make better choices. All studies that support gluten free have too mnay confounding factors to be reliable
One thing I’ve noticed from (completely) removing all wheat and gluten is less water retention (better vascularity).
Other than that, no other magic revelations…
I did not read the article because for me it is really simple: Gluten give me gas and digestive discomfort. A lot of it. Just ask my wife of 17 years.
Whether it is scientifically provable or not, gluten makes me feel bad. I am 39 years old. I have had digestive trouble my entire life. For some time I thought that it was lactose intolerance. However, once I finally tried going without gluten for a few days I felt like an entirely different person. Unfortunately I just figured this out a couple of years ago. I try not to think of all the discomfort over the years that I could have avoided had I figured my issues out earlier. I do not suffer from Celiacs.
Cutting out gluten coincided with my weight loss but it was NOT the cause. The cause was that I also started counting my calories and macros and actively managed my diet.
If I eat bread I feel bad. When I avoid it I feel fine. From this highly scientific sample size of one, I am convinced. That said, I find it hard to believe that I am unique.
[quote]Captain Needa wrote:
I did not read the article because for me it is really simple: Gluten give me gas and digestive discomfort. A lot of it. Just ask my wife of 17 years.
Whether it is scientifically provable or not, gluten makes me feel bad. I am 39 years old. I have had digestive trouble my entire life. For some time I thought that it was lactose intolerance. However, once I finally tried going without gluten for a few days I felt like an entirely different person. Unfortunately I just figured this out a couple of years ago. I try not to think of all the discomfort over the years that I could have avoided had I figured my issues out earlier. I do not suffer from Celiacs.
Cutting out gluten coincided with my weight loss but it was NOT the cause. The cause was that I also started counting my calories and macros and actively managed my diet.
If I eat bread I feel bad. When I avoid it I feel fine. From this highly scientific sample size of one, I am convinced. That said, I find it hard to believe that I am unique. [/quote]
Like I’ve mentioned earlier, if one has a bad reaction to certain foods, one should probably not consume those foods. It sounds like you have a wheat/gluten sensitivity. However, you and some others having a sensitivity doesn’t magically make gluten containing foods all of a sudden some big bad wolf.
It’s like a less extreme case of peanut allergies. If you have peanut allergies, yeah, most probably shouldn’t consume peanuts. Or like how some people just can’t handle whey as they will fart and shart all day. Yeah, for those people they should rethink the use whey.
Food sensitivities =/= a certain food globally bad for most people. I mean, how in the world is Asia still standing when they contain a ridiculous amount of gluten containing foods and soy?
[quote]kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]Captain Needa wrote:
I did not read the article because for me it is really simple: Gluten give me gas and digestive discomfort. A lot of it. Just ask my wife of 17 years.
Whether it is scientifically provable or not, gluten makes me feel bad. I am 39 years old. I have had digestive trouble my entire life. For some time I thought that it was lactose intolerance. However, once I finally tried going without gluten for a few days I felt like an entirely different person. Unfortunately I just figured this out a couple of years ago. I try not to think of all the discomfort over the years that I could have avoided had I figured my issues out earlier. I do not suffer from Celiacs.
Cutting out gluten coincided with my weight loss but it was NOT the cause. The cause was that I also started counting my calories and macros and actively managed my diet.
If I eat bread I feel bad. When I avoid it I feel fine. From this highly scientific sample size of one, I am convinced. That said, I find it hard to believe that I am unique. [/quote]
Like I’ve mentioned earlier, if one has a bad reaction to certain foods, one should probably not consume those foods. It sounds like you have a wheat/gluten sensitivity. However, you and some others having a sensitivity doesn’t magically make gluten containing foods all of a sudden some big bad wolf.
It’s like a less extreme case of peanut allergies. If you have peanut allergies, yeah, most probably shouldn’t consume peanuts. Or like how some people just can’t handle whey as they will fart and shart all day. Yeah, for those people they should rethink the use whey.
Food sensitivities =/= a certain food globally bad for most people. I mean, how in the world is Asia still standing when they contain a ridiculous amount of gluten containing foods and soy?[/quote]
Interestingly there is a 6 year lifespan differential between Chinese who eat only rice as their grain, and only wheat. Those who use rice 100% live 3 years longer than average, those who eat only wheat live 3 years less on average and the correlation to lifespan is higher than for all other dietary components combined.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Interestingly there is a 6 year lifespan differential between Chinese who eat only rice as their grain, and only wheat. Those who use rice 100% live 3 years longer than average, those who eat only wheat live 3 years less on average and the correlation to lifespan is higher than for all other dietary components combined. [/quote]
I think where they live and daily activities, etc. is going to make a huge difference here. China outside of the cities (in which there’s not many, it’s mostly rural/agriculture driven), what they eat is dictated mostly by where they live. So would be interesting to see what their daily activities are as well as what the rest of their diet consists of. China is friggin huge and these comparative population studies when one looks at just the comparison of results without factoring in the details, tends to demonstrate something that may not actually be in actuality what is going on.
It could really come down to something as simple as agriculture industry which these people work in. Rice farming is much more physically demanding than wheat farming. So perhaps the difference in physical activity here could have played a major role.
- Grains Are Bad; But Rice Is OK
The Perfect Health Diet strongly recommends eliminating all grains except rice. Wheat, which has an exceptionally high toxin load, is strongly deprecated. Rice, on the other hand, is accounted along with taro, sweet potatoes, and other underground starch storage organs among our ?safe starches.?
Ms. Minger notes the extraordinary correlations of wheat consumption with disease rates:
Why does Campbell indict animal foods in cardiovascular disease (correlation of +1 for animal protein and -11 for fish protein), yet fail to mention that wheat flour has a correlation of +67 with heart attacks and coronary heart disease, and plant protein correlates at +25 with these conditions?
Speaking of wheat, why doesn?t Campbell also note the astronomical correlations wheat flour has with various diseases: +46 with cervix cancer, +54 with hypertensive heart disease, +47 with stroke, +41 with diseases of the blood and blood-forming organs, and the aforementioned +67 with myocardial infarction and coronary heart disease? (None of these correlations appear to be tangled with any risk-heightening variables, either.) [2]
Wheat was, indeed, by far the most toxic food found in The China Study. It consistently produced the highest correlations with disease. Ms. Minger concludes:
[W]heat may be one of the most toxic things you could ever put in your mouth. [3]
Note that almost everyone in China eats substantial amounts of either rise or wheat; the people who eat little wheat eat a lot of rice. Wheat has a high correlation with disease only because rice is anti-correlated with disease. If rice were not safe, wheat would not appear so dangerous.
In fact, the correlation coefficient of rice with heart disease deaths is -58%, almost the opposite of the +67% for wheat. Other grains had a correlation coefficient of +39%. [4] So: rice good, other grains bad, wheat worst of all.
[quote]kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Interestingly there is a 6 year lifespan differential between Chinese who eat only rice as their grain, and only wheat. Those who use rice 100% live 3 years longer than average, those who eat only wheat live 3 years less on average and the correlation to lifespan is higher than for all other dietary components combined. [/quote]
I think where they live and daily activities, etc. is going to make a huge difference here. China outside of the cities (in which there’s not many, it’s mostly rural/agriculture driven), what they eat is dictated mostly by where they live. So would be interesting to see what their daily activities are as well as what the rest of their diet consists of. China is friggin huge and these comparative population studies when one looks at just the comparison of results without factoring in the details, tends to demonstrate something that may not actually be in actuality what is going on.
It could really come down to something as simple as agriculture industry which these people work in. Rice farming is much more physically demanding than wheat farming. So perhaps the difference in physical activity here could have played a major role.[/quote]
I agree that who it is who eats rice and wheat could be the main factor, or where they live, or socio economics or lots of other things. Also, wheat in grain form has a lot more toxic proteins than bread while rice, eated as a pure grain does not.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I agree that who it is who eats rice and wheat could be the main factor, or where they live, or socio economics or lots of other things. Also, wheat in grain form has a lot more toxic proteins than bread while rice, eated as a pure grain does not. [/quote]
In respect to harmful things in grains and what not, and this coming from a Chinese person here, they’ve long figured such things out 
That is why much of the food in China are cooked and/or fermented The closest thing we have to oatmeal is rice gruel which is called congee for those familiar. Things like cereal and what not are essentially western things that were introduced to Chinese societies. We also typically eat white rice which has the outer casing to the grain completely stripped. Things like wild rice and brown rice are essentially oddities there plus way too firm for the Chinese pallet.
Let’s also not forget just how old China is and how long their cultural practices have been in place at this point. We also love our noodles, and the majority of noodles are made out of wheat. Plain ole white flour basically for the wheat noodles and plain ole white rice flour for rice noodles. The type of noodles really depends on which region of China one is looking at (northern China is mostly wheat as that’s also where most of the wheat production is, southern China is mostly rice as that’s also where most of the rice production is). They basically consume what they grow/produce. If one talked to them about gluten and celiac, they would mostly not have a clue what the heck one is rambling on about 
[quote]kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I agree that who it is who eats rice and wheat could be the main factor, or where they live, or socio economics or lots of other things. Also, wheat in grain form has a lot more toxic proteins than bread while rice, eated as a pure grain does not. [/quote]
In respect to harmful things in grains and what not, and this coming from a Chinese person here, they’ve long figured such things out That is why much of the food in China are cooked and/or fermented The closest thing we have to oatmeal is rice gruel which is called congee for those familiar. :P[/quote]
Nail on the head. Its all in the preparation. Yes wheat causes a lot of gastrointestinal distress but when prepared right a lot of these issues can be reduced check out ‘Nourishing Traditions’ great book! It basically requires you to ferment everything… plus wheat ain’t what it used to be either. Its a far cry from the simple grain our forefathers relied on.
I eliminated all wheat from my diet a year and a half ago and gradually the brain fog lifted and that constant tiredness disappeared plus the liquid shits ceased, sorry 
I also leaned up quite a bit and felt lighter and less inflamed if that makes sense.
I still eat oats regularly but a I soak them overnight in lemon juice or apple cider vinegar and they don’t sit in my stomach like a weight unlike oats prepared the normal way.
this is just for what ever its worth but I was just at the biosig L2 cert this past weekend and asked James LaValle about the article and its studies after he spent quite a deal showing case blood work with clients who had gluten sensitivities show up and the positive effects of pulling them out afterwards.
He basically said the study wasn’t the same as the first one and was in fact way dialed down. He didn’t really trust the way the second study was set up and ran. He did however back this up with more blood work showing positive results post gluten removal. Of course I believe there is a mental aspect to everything so the placebo and nuebo makes almost perfect sense to me. I have the notes somewhere else on what he also said about gluten.
I do remember Keiffer saying that Gluten sensitivity is a myth, in a way, and that high insulin levels or IR actually causes the gluten allergy to fire.
this is also helpful: