Newb with Questions

Pharma TRT
1

Glad I found this forum. Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
About me…
45 yrs old, not in great shape, carrying an 20 extra lbs, always been stocky. Short, furry, always been very hale and hearty, rarely sick, gregarious…
Started about 2 yrs ago(memory is a little fuzzy, but I’ll be as accurate as I can), feeling tired, achy, sore joints, like I was getting the flu but it never came. Continued to gradually decline for several weeks, then my feet started to swell and be very painful-spent a week on the couch, Dr. was stumped. Swelling subsided on it’s own, but felt like hell, no energy, no interest in anything, wife was worried I was dying…
After doing some interweb research we found a HUGE list of BAD side effects from Nexium, which I’d been taking for about a yr. Quit the Nexium and felt a little better immediately, but still far from good.
Dr. started shotgun testing, mostly for scary stuff, ALS, Lukemia, etc. After weeks of tests, we discovered I had a Vitamin D level of 17! Aha! Started taking 4000iu daily, retest at 30 days and was up to 35ish. Felt much better but still “off”.
Next Aha was Testosterone at 252, reetest in the morning came back at 275ish, which Dr said was in range of 250 to 1000/ 18yrs to 75yrs old. When I pointed out I wasn’t 75, he agreed to monthly shots of (I’m guessing) 400mg. Felt better at first but of course had huge swings. Retest at 6 mos, came back at 350. Dr said “Great! It’s working”.
Google is my friend, found a paper written by an Endo that said more smaller shots were better, and 600ish was more appropriate for my age.
Dr agreed and started on 200mg shots every 2 weeks. Still felt swings and seem to be more fatigued on shot days. At 90 days, Dr said I could self inject and test came in at 295.
Dr says to inject 400mg/2 weeks.
So, last week I shot 400mg in my ass on Weds. morning, felt draggy all day. At dinner my wife notices my feet and ankles are very swollen. Dr is out of town, can’t see him till Monday.
Monday I show up with inj. protocals and some supporting documents I found on the web to support my theory that my E2 is jacked. He says we’ve reached the limit of his knowledge and willingness to cooperate, go see an Endo. As we discuss my concerns about getting a Dr that has a clue, he suggest a Urologist, will make a few calls and get me a referral.
Dr. Dick is going on vacay and can’t see me till Aug. 11th…
So here I sit, with swollen feet, achy joints, shrinking testicles, 15 lbs I’ve gained in the last month, moody, yadda yadda yadda.
I’m wrestling with taking a 1/2 dose today to try and even out the swings, afraid that doing so will make things worse, afraid of what a full dose next week will do. Wondering why the shots make me so tired, and dreading the 3 week wait to see what Dr Dick has to say.
Thanks for reading my rant and any help you can offer.

Sorry, but I don’t have copies of labs, He didn’t do any of the right ones anyway.

2

Your biweekly shots of 400 mg is terrible protocol for you. Read the Protocol for Injection and other stickeys at the top of this forum. Recommended injection protocol is every other day or every 3 days. You probably don’t need 200 mg/week if you are injecting more frequently.

Your swelling could be due to high Estradiol (E2). Read the “Estradiol: Why you should care” stickey (or at least the first page and skim the rest). You didn’t mention your E2 level and it sounds like your doctor is a standard moron who didn’t bother to test for it.

Your urologist will most likely be useless. Endo could be hit or miss. Read the stickey on finding a TRT doctor (through your compounding pharmacy). They will hopefully be more knowledgeable than your current doc.

You need to take control of your own health care and become an expert on this since most docs are clueless.

Your Vitamin D was still low from the second lab you gave. Shoot for high end of range (70-90 I believe).

Also look into adrenals, thyroid, dhea, ferritin.

YOu have a lot of research to do.

3

So I spoke with my Dr. about his referral to the uro.

My doc said that as he related my case, the uro said he should prescribe some Clomid for me.
My searches on the web find good and bad opinions about Clomid. I haven’t seen it mentioned here, but it seems like the thought is that it is supposed to stimulate my body to start producing T on it’s own. I like the thought of kick starting my stuff back into play, but am concerned. Does anyone have any experience with it?

Meanwhile, I found a local “Balanced health” clinic specializing in Andropause, but out of network for my Ins.
Not a huge deal, $500 to get started, including labs. Cool! Then I discover the Doc is an Ob/Gyn, and this is a side business. I realize that doesn’t mean he’s not qualified to help, but am concerned he’s just trying to cash in, and I don’t have a vagina other than my wife’s. Kinda like going to a seamstress for a haircut…

My wife says I should check out the uro. first, and can always go to the other guy if I don’t like what I get.
Primary doc says not to trust anybody who’s a specialist in a field that’s not specialized, plus he’s a gyno.
I don’t know who to trust, and don’t want to prolong my agony any longer than necessary.

I upped the vitamin D, and split my T dose in 1/2 last night, and will dose per the protocals.

I understand everybody is different, but will shots be SOP for the duration?
Has anyone gotten off HRT?
Who’s been doing it for 5 yrs, 10 yrs or more? How’s it treating you, QOL, side effects, etc?

4

[quote]fastersteve wrote:
So I spoke with my Dr. about his referral to the uro.

My doc said that as he related my case, the uro said he should prescribe some Clomid for me.
My searches on the web find good and bad opinions about Clomid. I haven’t seen it mentioned here, but it seems like the thought is that it is supposed to stimulate my body to start producing T on it’s own. I like the thought of kick starting my stuff back into play, but am concerned. Does anyone have any experience with it?

Meanwhile, I found a local “Balanced health” clinic specializing in Andropause, but out of network for my Ins.
Not a huge deal, $500 to get started, including labs. Cool! Then I discover the Doc is an Ob/Gyn, and this is a side business. I realize that doesn’t mean he’s not qualified to help, but am concerned he’s just trying to cash in, and I don’t have a vagina other than my wife’s. Kinda like going to a seamstress for a haircut…

My wife says I should check out the uro. first, and can always go to the other guy if I don’t like what I get.
Primary doc says not to trust anybody who’s a specialist in a field that’s not specialized, plus he’s a gyno.
I don’t know who to trust, and don’t want to prolong my agony any longer than necessary.

I upped the vitamin D, and split my T dose in 1/2 last night, and will dose per the protocals.

I understand everybody is different, but will shots be SOP for the duration?
Has anyone gotten off HRT?
Who’s been doing it for 5 yrs, 10 yrs or more? How’s it treating you, QOL, side effects, etc?[/quote]

your dr is a fuken moron like most of them who have no clue on how to proper administer TRT.
45 years old you qualify, but it needs to be done correctly and all other variables need to be checked. In older guys we tune up e2 and T then go after adrenals and thyroid because some time they come back in check when TRT is properly administered. If you need a good DR and want to get proper help please PM ME…I hate to see guys suffer when there is no need to. You have all the tools you just have apply them properly and you will be feeling just like 25 again when all is in proper balance. You definitely need more indept testing and NOT CLOMID last thing you need on TRT and any dr is suggesting this you need to run as fast as you can the other way !!

5

Yes I was put on Clomid of 50mg EOD for my first treatment and by the end of 2wks I was feeling worse than before I started. They told me to give it time and by the end of the month I was in bad shape. My test went up a little but my estrogen went up to 61.0. The ENDO said if you don’t like it then just quit taking it. Ok then what. The answer I got was see me in 2 months. What a good DOC. I would stay away from CLOMID.

6

Clomid is horrible for many. Doctors are informed about the mechanics of the response mechanism but nothing else.

A a public service, I obtained some clomid and took that on top of my effective and long term TRT. The effects of more T would have been minor on top of my T+A+I+hCG. Felt like crap and a couple of weeks to get right again, later did this again as something else could have made me feel poorly, same result, felt like crap.

Nolvadex did not have any notable effects. Was interested in possible benefits from having the HPTA turned on on an occasional basis. Was not interested in any long term use - other known side effects.

Tried Toremifene - Wikipedia long term. No negative effects. There is a lot of research indicating positive effects on the prostate. [I did not say easy to find.] The fact that this did not have negative effects would seem to indicate that top end HPTA stimulation does not make me feel bad and the negative effects of Clomid [for me] are likely to be direct estrogenic effects.

As many stimulus-responses in the pituitary are crossed linked, there is a possible implication for kicking the LH/FSH channel might also be of value for GH release or other functions. Can’t help but think that having part of the pituitary dormant has wider negative effects. If there is merit to this, I think that short term use from time to time might provide benefits, if they exist at all.

So did Toremifene make me feel better? - Can’t really say one way or an other. I was also busy capping my own amino acids for GH release and also added seleginine to improve the GH amino acid feeding response as that will increase the amino acid levels in the brain which should improve one’s GH response to amino acids or make smaller doses much more effective, great if some amino acids make you want to puke or have a blow-out.

[I need to cap some amino acids right now to improve my healing response - but energy is lacking.]