Further, like everywhere else, it’s as much about politics as anything else. You honestly think having a single-payer or universal system is about helping the masses? Lol at your naivety.
What’s even more comical is that you think single-payer is somehow a blow to Big Pharm… Lol.
There were 519 replies since I last clicked in this thread.
I walk in and here’s usmc arguing with Zep about single-payer healthcare.
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You didn’t expect otherwise I hope?
*We’ve actually been arguing about co-ops for most of those…
**Eventually Bill Murray broke the curse, though…
***I must break him…
****You also missed all the anti-vax stuff too…
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Nope. This was not part of the debate. The debate was about profit maximization.
Wrong.
I encourage self-enterprise and I have been very clear about this.
You can do anything you want within the law as long as you took the risks to start a business.
Anyone can buy equity in an existing business as long as the shareholders are willing to part with it.
If you are talking about being compelled by the state to give workers equal ownership in an existing business, then you can go fuck yourself.
I have not stated a position. Why are you lying again? This is the second time you have claimed that I have.
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You can’t break that much stupid. It’s like kryptonite.
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So are you.
Did I ever claim it was a panacea? I only viewed the evidence from all over the world. Which shows other countries who have implemented it save money and often get better results.
Because it’s horrible, maybe.
You ought to take your own advice.
In YOUR opinion. But the majority of evidence says otherwise.
Exactly, you don’t understand.
It is better based on the majority of metrics.
It is cheaper for the overwhelming majority of people. It is cheaper per capita, as a percentage of GDP, so overall.
These are the facts despite your rigid dogma. So nothing changes.
And you think having the public pay roughly twice as much for healthcare is the way to go. And a system that profits from limiting choice and continues suffering. This is beyond naivety and is immoral and willful ignorance.
When? I said I’d hope that Big Pharma would be next in the cross hairs after single-payer becomes a reality.
Did I say that you did? You think it’s superior based on a very poor understanding of what you’re talking about.
No, you don’t. You view consensus as evidence it’s better. That’s something a 6-year-old does.
They’re in debt up to their eyeballs. They don’t pay for their defense (or very little), they have more homogeneous populations, they have healthier populations, they don’t have millions of illegal immigrants straining their system, they have a much smaller population to accommodate, they have as long of wait times for emergency services and longer wait times for everything else, they have fewer treatment options, etc…
Correct, I didn’t understand whatever the fuck that babbling nonsense was.
Wrong.
Wrong.
In some cases, it’s cheaper per capita, but not all and that’s with insane levels of debt to GDP while spending, generally, well under their NATO requirements.
You don’t understand what’s actually happening, which is why you’re a fool.
This is such an absurdly simplistic view of what happens now and what would happen if single-payer were adopted here. “The public” doesn’t pay twice as much. My employer covers 80% of my insurance premiums.
As I’ve asked several times before, explain how the tax code would need to be changed in order for me, a middle-class American, not to have to absorb both that 80% and the cost for non-emergency services (Cadillac program)? I’ll wait.
Single-payer limits choice. Fuck, man.
Believe single-payer fixes what you don’t like about our healthcare system is what’s nieve.
hardly.
THEY’RE A PART OF EVERY SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM IN THE WORLD. You’re dense and nieve.
And when you make the public suffer for profit maximization, you have problems.
And the more shares you buy the more power you have. Co-Ops provide one vote, one person.
Never implied this. I only said that I agree with Jeremy Corbyn that the government can provide low cost loans to those who want to start a Co-Op or buy an existing business and turn it into a Co-Op.
Your ignorance is on display again for all to see, but then again you’re in good company as most posters on here share in your ignorance. I guess it’s no wonder people on here are not extremely embarrassed of their posts.
It’s amazing how the 20+ posters on here that think you’re a fucking clown are the ignorant ones. Couldn’t possibly be you, right?
This is such a stupid, lame, and tired talking point. Get new material, for the love of god.
Sure. But this has nothing to do with it either. The debate was whether co-ops need to do business with the goal of maximizing profits. Stop falling back on catchphrases.
What does this have to do with whether I believe workers can own the means of production? I already said I support co-ops.
Who’s money is being used for this subsidized loan? Why should they have to pay for it?
Also, when the government gives you something, they will take something back or they will exert control on you in some way now that they have leverage. It’s not a good idea to take something from the government even if it’s for short-term benefit.
Keep the fucking government out of business. They can’t even build a case to enforce the fucking law against several errant corporations. How the fuck can you trust them to know what’s best for business?
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This is the amazing thing. He thinks the government will just pull funding from the magical money tree and give it to co-ops. Of course, the rest of us understand “the people” will be forced to fund the “superior economic model” that is the co-op because… who the fuck know what his reasons are really?
If I’m putting my money into a business I want compensation for that and I sure as shit don’t want Congress deciding what businesses I invest in. Fuck that.
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Just another Zep inconsistency I’m afraid. The DHHS/FDA haave been taken over by the corporations so lets put them in charge of health insurance.
Capitalism has “bought and bribed” politicians so lets let them chose who to fund and who not to fund as long as they’re co-ops (as if that will make a difference).
This man-child lives in a fantasy world that has never and will never exist.
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Wait til he finds out co ops aren’t all that uncommon with lending institutions. And that they were just as “helpful” back before 07 as non co op lenders were.
Totally better business model though. Profits over people is fine as long as the workers are voting to put profits over people (and they always will, duh)
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