Not to mention your total ignorance of the subject. Speaking like he knows what he is talking about when he in reality has no fucking clue.
Must have been reading over some of your ignorant posts.
Can you give a legit explanation of Citizens United?
Because this worked so well in the 2008 meltdown.
Yes it is what you believe. Saying it isnât after the fact that youâve wrote about it several times doesnât make it so, now that youâre embarrassed by it.
You literally have no idea what youâre talking about.
Thanks for telling me what I believe, fucking clown.
The only thing Iâm mildly embarrassed about is my continual entanglement of your stupidity.
Oh I know, once people have NO money they will be able to spend it on cheaper goods and services. What if the jobless rate is higher? What do you think it will do to the economy when few have money to spend?
Like your cherry-picked studies viewing single-payer costing more. When we have real world examples it costs far less.
At the cooperative Mondragon the leaders of said industry are capped at making 8 times what the average worker makes. A far cry from the CEO salary and compensation package they receive.
Outrageous. Are they putting in 8x the hours the average worker puts in? Doubtful.
Never said that I support a socialist government.
Does the state own a cooperative?
Exactly. Now youâre beginning to understand.
Does one need a socialist government to be in charge for cooperatives to exist?
Never said or implied this.
Agree.
Should be owned and governed by the workers.
A corporation that prolongs the suffering of the public, would be a start.
Via the internet? Formed by the public sector.
It is true and if the capitalist system helped create it, is that a justification for them to demolish it?
An authoritarian on the subject, much more than I
Like I care what YOU are willing to discuss.
I seriously doubt Chomsky would have apreciated your introduction of him in this manner. Sorry, cheap shot. I realise that might be a spellcheck issue but I couldnât resist it.
That aside, if you want to make the argument in this manner, then there has never been a capitalist system in existance since there has always been a degree of government intervention and certain things like the control of the production of social goods, redistribution, welfare etc, within âcapitalistâ countries.
And this is exactly what I stated several posts above. You think Iâm not familiar with Chomsky?
It is the human APPLICATION of these systems that we have seen in the real world all throughout history. So, tell me, what has the world seen from socialism?
You just really love this line donât you. Despite it being not true.
Why donât you start a co op or financially support one instead of being all talk? Serious question.
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You use âbusiness modelâ and âeconomic modelâ interchangeably when describing capitalism and socialism. And since capitalism is not a âbusiness modelâ(which is why I told you to define it), what would be a reasonable conclusion for someone who actually understands these things?
No. So you must be aware that an individual co-op will be competing in, and attempting to maximize profits within a capitalist market, and that government regulation only serves to put undue burden them. Yet you are in favor of Big Government.
If you want to argue the profit maximization part, look up fiduciary obligations of directors of co-ops first.
See above. Itâs not my fault for misinterpreting things when you donât know what you are talking about.
This is not an answer.
Again, what is your alternative if this is really happening?
You jumped on one part(quoted one part in bold) out of the entire post and answered as if that was the main point I was making. Very dishonest of you. Very fucking dishonest.
Sure. As long as you understand this:
Sums you up perfectly.
Others will do it for him. Just let them take the risks and invest their money, time and effort without a guarantee of returns. Heâll be there to demand his âfair shareâ if things go well for them.
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Just blows my mind that the guy canât even spend his money at a co op, yet expects everyone to believe he thinks itâs a better business model.
Guy votes with his dollar every day to support and continue the very machine he fights against. Heâs quite literally driving the other side of his own argument
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Pegging to inflation is one thing, but there is no reality in which it will be or should be pegged to âproductivityâ, which is an impossibly vague term in any case. Wages have never been pegged to productivity in a direct manner, even if one could calculate it precisely.
Of course I refuse to have this conversation with you because youâre incapable of understanding anything beyond black and white
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Itâs not his fault. Heâs a victim.
Hell, I buy most of my groceries at a co-op supermarket. If more of these pop up and are successful, thatâs great. Only leads to cheaper prices for me. I couldnât give 2 fucks about how they are managed internally as long as no real exploitation is going on. They can sing the Soviet national anthem on the rooftop every morning for all I care.
I think we will be seeing more co-ops emerge. For example, there is a fast growing online freelance market with millennials who have marketable skills but do not want to work within a traditional business organization.
Whether this works out or not doesnât matter. A good percentage will fail and become normal, paid employees. The point is there are more people willing to take risks, learn valuable lessons on self-enterprise and go on shape the economic landscape through these lessons. The only problem with this is if the government decides to come in and pick the winners and losers.
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Reminds me of a saying I canât attribute because I donât remember where I stole it from:
Nobody is ever paid exactly what theyâre worth. You get underpaid up to the point where you have the skills and experience to figure out how to get overpaid.
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A Capitalist system will always lead to cartel-like behavior.
As per Chompsky, those nations assumed to have socialistic government were always right-wing offshoots. A perversion of socialism.