[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
ExNole wrote:
I don’t think increased pay across the board is necessarily the best plan, but at least for experienced special forces types. I have to imagine there are a lot of soldiers who otherwise might be lifers who sign up for Blackwater after a few years just because the pay is so much better. If you have a family, that 200,000 a year might be too much to resist.
That Blackwater salary looks good at first glance but I have heard that if they get wounded they get dropped and the benefits suck. It is a gamble.
I have heard of six figure retention bonuses for some special forces guys.[/quote]
Good points, I’m sure there’s some good guys that take the gamble though.
[quote]ExNole wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
ExNole wrote:
I don’t think increased pay across the board is necessarily the best plan, but at least for experienced special forces types. I have to imagine there are a lot of soldiers who otherwise might be lifers who sign up for Blackwater after a few years just because the pay is so much better. If you have a family, that 200,000 a year might be too much to resist.
That Blackwater salary looks good at first glance but I have heard that if they get wounded they get dropped and the benefits suck. It is a gamble.
I have heard of six figure retention bonuses for some special forces guys.
Good points, I’m sure there’s some good guys that take the gamble though. [/quote]
Absolutely. Taking the money up front is very tempting.
If they get out healthy they are almost set for life at an early age.
I don’t think pay rate has anything to do with people becoming special operators at all. You have to WANT to be a spec ops troop, especially an elite one.
[quote]apayne wrote:
Ryu13 wrote:
SEAL training is stupid. How does starving, drowning, freezing, and depriving people of sleep make good soldiers? It might make mentally tough soldiers, but it doesnt do shit for their physical state, their poor poor physical state… Eventually, physical problems lead to mental problems.
I never really understood what a “troll” was. Now I do. Your sorry ass is on every thread saying something stupid. At least I learned something today.[/quote]
Why did it take you so long? Most of his stuff is only posting if there is an insult involved or the chance to call people pussies or stupid… etc. Check the history. He acts like a bad ass and never shows us his pics so we may see if he trains or not. Does not give any actual info on profile.
I say 17 year old troll.
He recently dogged Anthony Roberts…with a one line insult. It’s best to just ignore him.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
apayne wrote:
Ryu13 wrote:
SEAL training is stupid. How does starving, drowning, freezing, and depriving people of sleep make good soldiers? It might make mentally tough soldiers, but it doesnt do shit for their physical state, their poor poor physical state… Eventually, physical problems lead to mental problems.
I never really understood what a “troll” was. Now I do. Your sorry ass is on every thread saying something stupid. At least I learned something today.
Why did it take you so long? Most of his stuff is only posting if there is an insult involved or the chance to call people pussies or stupid… etc. Check the history. He acts like a bad ass and never shows us his pics so we may see if he trains or not. Does not give any actual info on profile.
I say 17 year old troll.
He recently dogged Anthony Roberts…with a one line insult. It’s best to just ignore him.
[/quote]
Wise words Rockscar. I’m thinking the mods might be watching him anyway.
Slightly off the main topic but I noticed many US Special forces guys are (not being gay) quite handsome rugged looking guys, whereas many British SAS and SBS are pretty ugly bastards ! I heard anecdotally that part of the selection is not considering people good looking guys and the focus is on more normal, dowdy looking guys. Looking at those Iranian Embassy documentaties where Ex-SAS guys give accounts, I can see the truth in it.
Normal looking guys blend in I spose, handsome guys look better but stand out more.
The main thing with being a SEAL I think is you have to want it bad enough to go through all the sucking. Because in the one possible situation you get dropped into where your skills are counted on, you can’t mentally crack. For instance, you may have to do something that has the chance to get you seriously injured, but if you think about the mission over injury there is a chance you can get the job done. While if you think about the injury over the mission, it can make the job go bad, and ruin things for your team and mission.
Otherwise what I’m saying is, mental toughness is probably the biggest thing needed as in sports. There are some people that could have made it into the League, but they may have not had the mental toughness when they were 2-3 years before the draft to keep working out hard throughout the summer, and eat right. All that stuff plays a part. Anyhow, GO SEAL’s and GO USA!
I filled out an application for marine ROTC a year and a half ago. I had a composite 31 on my ACT (the college exam test most midwesterners take), got a 98 on my asvab, had a letter of reccomendation from a senator and my teachers, and I wasn’t accepted. The marines sent me a big letter, but the recruiter told me that it was becuase I wasn’t a minority or a female. (what he said, not what i said, before you decide to flame me)
They wanted me to go enlisted, and then try to get picked up for PLC. I said no. Now I have my associates degree. I am unemployed, unfortunately, but working hard to get a job with the department of corrections, and am getting my bachelors. Strangely enough, I am glad I didn’t get picked up for ROTC.
[quote]Ryu13 wrote:
SEAL training is stupid. How does starving, drowning, freezing, and depriving people of sleep make good soldiers? It might make mentally tough soldiers, but it doesnt do shit for their physical state, their poor poor physical state… Eventually, physical problems lead to mental problems.[/quote]
Out of all of the special forces people I’ve seen, the SEALs were the most surprisingly muscular (many of them, not all of course).
The Green Berets were surprisingly out-of-shape-looking (emphasis on “looking”, but put them in a jungle and they’ll dominate any other team out there.
I saw a few special forces personell while I was in, but I saw many more when I was a contractor running secure networks on various bases.
They get more liberties and other “bonuses” on top of their regular pay.
It seems like a fair amount of people are washing out because the injure theselves rather than not being mentally tough enough. I understand that it is important to have only the most adept physical specimens, but it does see like something good be done to improve the number of high qulity recruits coing out of SEAL training through a more thorough preparation physically.
There are a lot of military types here, do you feel there is any sort of initial training that recruits could be put through before trying out for the SEALs?
[quote]Ryu13 wrote:
SEAL training is stupid. How does starving, drowning, freezing, and depriving people of sleep make good soldiers? It might make mentally tough soldiers, but it doesnt do shit for their physical state, their poor poor physical state… Eventually, physical problems lead to mental problems.[/quote]
It’s a test, not training. It weeds out the weak whiners.
There are a lot of military types here, do you feel there is any sort of initial training that recruits could be put through before trying out for the SEALs?[/quote]
Sittin in a bath of freezing cold salt water in winter for hours on end ?
Apart from that, the mindset is kind of pre-programmed you either can stand it or you can’t.
[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
Ryu13 wrote:
SEAL training is stupid. How does starving, drowning, freezing, and depriving people of sleep make good soldiers? It might make mentally tough soldiers, but it doesnt do shit for their physical state, their poor poor physical state… Eventually, physical problems lead to mental problems.
Out of all of the special forces people I’ve seen, the SEALs were the most surprisingly muscular (many of them, not all of course).
The Green Berets were surprisingly out-of-shape-looking (emphasis on “looking”, but put them in a jungle and they’ll dominate any other team out there.
I saw a few special forces personell while I was in, but I saw many more when I was a contractor running secure networks on various bases.
They get more liberties and other “bonuses” on top of their regular pay.[/quote]
This is true. Most ASF boys I’ve worked with carry a little extra fat on them. While the SEALs have more of a bodybuilder type look to them. Most people say it’s because before the SEALs, most of these men spent years on a boat with nothing to do but lift and eat. Plus docking at ports in countries where steroids are legal.
A lot of the posts are very good and insightful. Hell, I learned of a new site from a soldier. Pretty cool.
For this guy “Ryu13”, just in case you came back to see if anyone noticed you… the point of bestowing hell on someone like that is to tempt them to quit. You want people to quit, because only those left around are going to have some kind of balls to drive on when shit really, really sucks. You are probably too young to know what kinds of situations would bring you to the red zone on your suck-o-meter.
I got myself all ready to go for SF selection. It’s kinda tough, but the whole getting 4 hours of sleep a week part kinda turned me off. It’s rough shit and I give a lot of respect to the dudes who endure that shit. It just has to be hell. They dig it though. They love the suck, and ask for more of it. You gotta be fucking stupid to want to fight a country with those crazy bastards being ready to come after your ass.
Those of you retards talking down on the people of the military: before you call any of us losers with no other way to go, poor, or any other crazy crap like that, just remember that WE are the ones sleeping in the rain, slaving in the sun, running around in the dark while you’re sleeping, and eating something barely in the realm of edible because WE are the ones with the balls and drive to go impose horrible violence on your behald and we do it against people who would have your entrails spread across your lawn. Always remember that if we hadn’t been there all of the past century you would be speaking German, or Japanese, Spanish right now instead of English. You might have ended up speaking Arabic if we didn’t go pound the shit out of a couple countries these past 5 years.
It’s a test, not training. It weeds out the weak whiners.
You try it and then go call them whiners.
[/quote]
I would suggest that it is a matter of threshold in how much shitty situational punishment you can withstand. I am very sure that after a few days of that treatment I would be hauled off in a stretcher, or drop out as a matter of preservation. Water just sucks for me in any situation. Screw all that nonsense.
I was a Paratrooper a long time ago,and ,went through jump school with a few SEALS.They were nuts.Playing tag in the sky and shit,which is a huge no no.I learned that there is a fine line between hardcore and stupid,they live on that line.Thank god they are on our team.
For all you wanna be tough guys,over opiniated loud mouths,be careful.All these boys are coming home on leave and rotateing out of "The Machine"and they have been through some shit most only see in the movies.Show some respect or get taught some!
Regarding the differences between the SEAL and SF physical characteristics:
I’d say that it has everything to do with mission type.
The SEALs are more direct-action oriented. They get in and out fairly quickly. Speed is of the essence. They’re able to be back at the base ASAP and right back to their protien shakes and training.
The SF guys spend much more time out in the boonies. Sitting in recon holes for days on end observing movement. Living with indigenous peoples and eating their malnourishing food.
Regardless though, I’m humbled by all of our elites: Marines, Rangers, SF, SEALs, Delta.
i think a lot of people are misinterpreting the point of the seal training. it’s not to weed out the physically weak or to break people down physically, it’s to find the guys who refuse to quit. the whole hell week thing is entirely mental, only the guys with the mental toughness stick it out.
they look for that so when shit goes bad on a mission, they know the guys are going to be able to do what it takes to survive and get the job done.
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
I filled out an application for marine ROTC a year and a half ago. I had a composite 31 on my ACT (the college exam test most midwesterners take), got a 98 on my asvab, had a letter of reccomendation from a senator and my teachers, and I wasn’t accepted. The marines sent me a big letter, but the recruiter told me that it was becuase I wasn’t a minority or a female. (what he said, not what i said, before you decide to flame me)
They wanted me to go enlisted, and then try to get picked up for PLC. I said no. Now I have my associates degree. I am unemployed, unfortunately, but working hard to get a job with the department of corrections, and am getting my bachelors. Strangely enough, I am glad I didn’t get picked up for ROTC.[/quote]
There is no such thing as Marine ROTC. There is Navy ROTC where you can go “Marine Option” upon graduation. You said you now have an associates degree which indicates that you did not get accepted into a university with a ROTC unit. Recruiters aren’t turning guys away because of racial quota’s. Maybe I’m wrong, but in order to get a ROTC scholarship, you have to get accepted into a University with a ROTC program first. Sounds like you are in Junior College. However, once you get your degree, go back and find an OSO (Officer Selection Officer), not a recruiter. They deal with recruiting officers only. Regular recruiters always want you to go enlisted.