NBA FINALS 2011

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401

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

IMO there is no way we don’t get a season. They were TOO successful last year. It’ll happen, both sides are posturing right now.[/quote]

If they are pushing for a hard salary cap, I think it’s a lot more than just posturing. Deron Williams has already agreed to play overseas and apparently Dwayne Wade might going over soon too.[/quote]

I think the players are posturing too. Nobody really wants to play in bumfuck Turkey. Not only is the money worse, but half the appeal is the glitz and glamour the big stage the NBA brings.

I think the NBA situation is a lot worse than the NFL’s. They are probably waiting to see what the judges in the NFL case decide before they start negotiating. [/quote]

Dude, these foreign teams would guarantee these guys a couple of mil, pay for all living expenses and accomodations, and give them a chance to stay in shape while the NBA figures this out. It’s obviously not the ideal situation but it is in no way crying wolf.
[/quote]

Yeah that’s nice for the D-Wills and D-Wades of the world who aren’t hurting for money anyway… but there aren’t enough open jobs in Europe for all the mid- and lower-level players who might actually need the cash. They aren’t gonna use a roster spot Aaron Brooks if he may only be there 2 weeks.[/quote]

You honestly think that a European club wouldn’t give a roster spot to “second tier” NBA players, with the team being able to use the NBA player as a draw to bring in extra revenue? This would clearly benefit all parties outside of an injury nullifying the players NBA deal due to breach of contract. European clubs are always down to bring on Americans. There has never been an in his prime All-Star go overseas. All Americans over there are generally couldn’t hack its or has beens. Euro clubs have to be licking their chops at the thought of a possible mass exodus of NBA talent, and David stern needs to take notice.[/quote]

Exactly. Before Deron Williams who was the best American player to go overseas in their prime?

Josh Childress?

402

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

IMO there is no way we don’t get a season. They were TOO successful last year. It’ll happen, both sides are posturing right now.[/quote]

If they are pushing for a hard salary cap, I think it’s a lot more than just posturing. Deron Williams has already agreed to play overseas and apparently Dwayne Wade might going over soon too.[/quote]

I think the players are posturing too. Nobody really wants to play in bumfuck Turkey. Not only is the money worse, but half the appeal is the glitz and glamour the big stage the NBA brings.

I think the NBA situation is a lot worse than the NFL’s. They are probably waiting to see what the judges in the NFL case decide before they start negotiating. [/quote]

Dude, these foreign teams would guarantee these guys a couple of mil, pay for all living expenses and accomodations, and give them a chance to stay in shape while the NBA figures this out. It’s obviously not the ideal situation but it is in no way crying wolf.
[/quote]

Yeah that’s nice for the D-Wills and D-Wades of the world who aren’t hurting for money anyway… but there aren’t enough open jobs in Europe for all the mid- and lower-level players who might actually need the cash. They aren’t gonna use a roster spot Aaron Brooks if he may only be there 2 weeks.[/quote]

You honestly think that a European club wouldn’t give a roster spot to “second tier” NBA players, with the team being able to use the NBA player as a draw to bring in extra revenue? This would clearly benefit all parties outside of an injury nullifying the players NBA deal due to breach of contract. European clubs are always down to bring on Americans. There has never been an in his prime All-Star go overseas. All Americans over there are generally couldn’t hack its or has beens. Euro clubs have to be licking their chops at the thought of a possible mass exodus of NBA talent, and David stern needs to take notice.[/quote]

Normally, yes - but there are 2 additional factors. One is that the player will have an out clause that will enable him to come back to the nba when an agreement is reached. The second factor is that the luster of an nba player dies down if 100 of them want jobs.

What I mean is, if you already have 5 nba players, Kyle Lowry isnt selling you any more tickets. I dont think you can have an entire roster full of guys who could be called overseas at a moment’s notice. Maybe I’m wrong.

How many foreign teams would be interested and could afford it? I couldn’t even ballpark guess the number of available roster spots overseas.

403

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
As a European and someone who knows the situation over there I can tell you now the Euroleague cannot afford (as in $$$) a mass exodus if NBA players demand fat money for going over there. If anything the Euroleague is more sensitive than the NBA financially. The socio-economic situation in Europe is worse than anything experienced in the US and it affects all consumer-able goods, including basketball. If we do see a lot of players migrating there teams will start evaluating the players on talent and popularity instead of just grabbing everyone that’s worn a jersey before with the NBA logo.

Then from the NBA players’ perspective a lot of them simply won’t play there because they won’t like what they see, possibly both the team environment and the overall living environment. I personally know a couple of guys from my high school that played D1 and D2 basketball in the States then tried playing in Europe. None of them liked it there. Now some of them are playing pro ball here in the national league and some in the bigger Australasian NBL. One dude even tried out for the Spurs and Mavs 1-2 years ago. Money wise it’s much less than here but a lot of guys just can’t be fucked moving to China or Europe or where ever so far from their family and friends. I actually hope that if this lock out thing drags on we get some lower tier NBA talent to come to the NBL to just shoot shit and stay in shape.[/quote]

Yeah but they wont have to pay nba salaries - these are people who live lives that require income and by and large have no skill that will pay them close to what overseas ball will. I’m saying the teams hold all the negotiating leverage and wont have to pay market value.

404

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

IMO there is no way we don’t get a season. They were TOO successful last year. It’ll happen, both sides are posturing right now.[/quote]

If they are pushing for a hard salary cap, I think it’s a lot more than just posturing. Deron Williams has already agreed to play overseas and apparently Dwayne Wade might going over soon too.[/quote]

I think the players are posturing too. Nobody really wants to play in bumfuck Turkey. Not only is the money worse, but half the appeal is the glitz and glamour the big stage the NBA brings.

I think the NBA situation is a lot worse than the NFL’s. They are probably waiting to see what the judges in the NFL case decide before they start negotiating. [/quote]

Dude, these foreign teams would guarantee these guys a couple of mil, pay for all living expenses and accomodations, and give them a chance to stay in shape while the NBA figures this out. It’s obviously not the ideal situation but it is in no way crying wolf.
[/quote]

Yeah that’s nice for the D-Wills and D-Wades of the world who aren’t hurting for money anyway… but there aren’t enough open jobs in Europe for all the mid- and lower-level players who might actually need the cash. They aren’t gonna use a roster spot Aaron Brooks if he may only be there 2 weeks.[/quote]

You honestly think that a European club wouldn’t give a roster spot to “second tier” NBA players, with the team being able to use the NBA player as a draw to bring in extra revenue? This would clearly benefit all parties outside of an injury nullifying the players NBA deal due to breach of contract. European clubs are always down to bring on Americans. There has never been an in his prime All-Star go overseas. All Americans over there are generally couldn’t hack its or has beens. Euro clubs have to be licking their chops at the thought of a possible mass exodus of NBA talent, and David stern needs to take notice.[/quote]

Normally, yes - but there are 2 additional factors. One is that the player will have an out clause that will enable him to come back to the nba when an agreement is reached. The second factor is that the luster of an nba player dies down if 100 of them want jobs.

What I mean is, if you already have 5 nba players, Kyle Lowry isnt selling you any more tickets. I dont think you can have an entire roster full of guys who could be called overseas at a moment’s notice. Maybe I’m wrong.

How many foreign teams would be interested and could afford it? I couldn’t even ballpark guess the number of available roster spots overseas.
[/quote]

The out clause is a no brainer, and Euro squads (one would think) know what they’re getting themselves into. It’s a win win for both parties outside of injury. Kyle Lowrey by himself probably wouldn’t be much of a draw, but a team with Lowrey, Wade and Stoudamire (who said if not for his needing recovery from surgery he’d be gone) would be. These guys aren’t going for the money, though some tax free dough is a nice perk. They’re going to stay in shape and maintain some semblence of power.

405

^^^I’m definitely agreeing with you on this WF, what I’m asking is more along the lines of “are there enough jobs available?” I guarantee you the vast majority of NBA players are living a lifestyle that requires them to make some kinda income soon… is there enough room overseas for all of them? I honestly don’t know.

If I owned a euroleague team and had 5 NBA players, would I want to pay a bunch of money for a 6th man? Probably not. If you throw in Turkey and Russia, are there enough total teams with rich owners to pay a significant number of NBA players? I’m just curious what percentage of players could play overseas before jobs dry up, that’s all.

406

[quote]scj119 wrote:
^^^I’m definitely agreeing with you on this WF, what I’m asking is more along the lines of “are there enough jobs available?” I guarantee you the vast majority of NBA players are living a lifestyle that requires them to make some kinda income soon… is there enough room overseas for all of them? I honestly don’t know.

If I owned a euroleague team and had 5 NBA players, would I want to pay a bunch of money for a 6th man? Probably not. If you throw in Turkey and Russia, are there enough total teams with rich owners to pay a significant number of NBA players? I’m just curious what percentage of players could play overseas before jobs dry up, that’s all.[/quote]

It doesn’t really matter.

If the League is taking a stance on a hard salary cap and a 33% cut of all salaries the head of NBPA will not budge. The NHL players locked out a year before accepting such a deal. I think the same thing is going to happen again.

407

[quote]scj119 wrote:
^^^I’m definitely agreeing with you on this WF, what I’m asking is more along the lines of “are there enough jobs available?” I guarantee you the vast majority of NBA players are living a lifestyle that requires them to make some kinda income soon… is there enough room overseas for all of them? I honestly don’t know.

If I owned a euroleague team and had 5 NBA players, would I want to pay a bunch of money for a 6th man? Probably not. If you throw in Turkey and Russia, are there enough total teams with rich owners to pay a significant number of NBA players? I’m just curious what percentage of players could play overseas before jobs dry up, that’s all.[/quote]

That’s a good question, and I don’t know the answer. How many teams are in FIBA? Considering that encompasses the entirety of Europe, one would assume there are a lot. Let’s say 100 players decide to bounce (that number is probably pretty ambitious), that’s still only 2 players a team over 50 teams, or 3 players over 33 teams. I assume they could handle that, but again I have NO CLUE how many teams are out there, or are even able to accomodate the influx. Hopefully we won’t have to find out.

408

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
^^^I’m definitely agreeing with you on this WF, what I’m asking is more along the lines of “are there enough jobs available?” I guarantee you the vast majority of NBA players are living a lifestyle that requires them to make some kinda income soon… is there enough room overseas for all of them? I honestly don’t know.

If I owned a euroleague team and had 5 NBA players, would I want to pay a bunch of money for a 6th man? Probably not. If you throw in Turkey and Russia, are there enough total teams with rich owners to pay a significant number of NBA players? I’m just curious what percentage of players could play overseas before jobs dry up, that’s all.[/quote]

It doesn’t really matter.

If the League is taking a stance on a hard salary cap and a 33% cut of all salaries the head of NBPA will not budge. The NHL players locked out a year before accepting such a deal. I think the same thing is going to happen again.[/quote]

Raj, I don’t know shit about hockey but vaguely remember that. Did they end up having a season or was it completely lost?

409

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
^^^I’m definitely agreeing with you on this WF, what I’m asking is more along the lines of “are there enough jobs available?” I guarantee you the vast majority of NBA players are living a lifestyle that requires them to make some kinda income soon… is there enough room overseas for all of them? I honestly don’t know.

If I owned a euroleague team and had 5 NBA players, would I want to pay a bunch of money for a 6th man? Probably not. If you throw in Turkey and Russia, are there enough total teams with rich owners to pay a significant number of NBA players? I’m just curious what percentage of players could play overseas before jobs dry up, that’s all.[/quote]

It doesn’t really matter.

If the League is taking a stance on a hard salary cap and a 33% cut of all salaries the head of NBPA will not budge. The NHL players locked out a year before accepting such a deal. I think the same thing is going to happen again.[/quote]

Raj, I don’t know shit about hockey but vaguely remember that. Did they end up having a season or was it completely lost?
[/quote]

Lost Completely. Happiest year of my life.

410

^^^Hahaha.

411

Shaq being accused of ordering several murders. Seriously. http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/30633321

I think it’s just a guy trying to milk Shaq for cash… still, not the type of shit you hear every day.

412

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Shaq being accused of ordering several murders. Seriously. http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/30633321

I think it’s just a guy trying to milk Shaq for cash… still, not the type of shit you hear every day.[/quote]

You know what’s even worse? He’s going to be on TNT as an analyst.

413

Last I remember, overseas teams limit foreigner to 2 per team. That means there are usually only two slots open per team for a US or other foreign player.

414

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
^^^I’m definitely agreeing with you on this WF, what I’m asking is more along the lines of “are there enough jobs available?” I guarantee you the vast majority of NBA players are living a lifestyle that requires them to make some kinda income soon… is there enough room overseas for all of them? I honestly don’t know.

If I owned a euroleague team and had 5 NBA players, would I want to pay a bunch of money for a 6th man? Probably not. If you throw in Turkey and Russia, are there enough total teams with rich owners to pay a significant number of NBA players? I’m just curious what percentage of players could play overseas before jobs dry up, that’s all.[/quote]

It doesn’t really matter.

If the League is taking a stance on a hard salary cap and a 33% cut of all salaries the head of NBPA will not budge. The NHL players locked out a year before accepting such a deal. I think the same thing is going to happen again.[/quote]

Holy shit are the owners really demanding a 33% cut in ALL players’ salaries? Sheesh now I know why people are saying the situation is really bad. No union is going to agree to conditions like that, at least not without a lengthy war.

415

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Last I remember, overseas teams limit foreigner to 2 per team. That means there are usually only two slots open per team for a US or other foreign player. [/quote]

That has since changed I believe. That was also during the time Americans were scared of going over for fear of not getting paid, clubs folding and them being stranded, shit like that. It is apparently much more “American friendly” now.

416

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Last I remember, overseas teams limit foreigner to 2 per team. That means there are usually only two slots open per team for a US or other foreign player. [/quote]

That has since changed I believe. That was also during the time Americans were scared of going over for fear of not getting paid, clubs folding and them being stranded, shit like that. It is apparently much more “American friendly” now.[/quote]

I think Euroleague no longer has any restrictions but that’s an “invitational” type league. The reality is that most countries still have limits even if they’ve been relaxed (from 2 to 5 for example). The bigger point is, there are limits in most leagues and therefore, only a limited number of roster spots for Americans (dual citizenship situations the exception for a guy returning to his “home” country). And whether there is a limit or not, economics alone imposes a “limit”. The finances just aren’t there to support any appreciable number of NBA level players. When all is said and done, the impact of NBA players temporarily leaving to play overseas will be limited. At the end of the day, although an NBA player can take out an insurance policy, they are expensive in and of themselves and therefore diminish an already smaller salary (unless the team picks it up, but you’re just robbing peter to pay paul). The risk of injury is higher too in my opinion, playing against lesser competition (but still proud players) who will try to keep up. I don’t think you’ll see many players go. I think it’s a non-issue. You may get more second and third tier players leaving if the lockout is prolonged. You will also likely see more than a few second round draft selections go. Most guys will sit tight, and sit on their money (if they are smart).

417

It’s official, Deron Williams signed with the Turkish team Iverson played with last season. That can’t speak well on the state of the lockout.

418

I can’t speak for other european countries but in Turkey I would say there are probably only two teams in the Turkish League that could afford to pay an NBA player decent money. And Derron Williams just signed with one of them. If some want to go over there just to stay in shape than that’s another story obviously. It’s sad to see what’s going on in the NBA an NFL right now…

419

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
^^^I’m definitely agreeing with you on this WF, what I’m asking is more along the lines of “are there enough jobs available?” I guarantee you the vast majority of NBA players are living a lifestyle that requires them to make some kinda income soon… is there enough room overseas for all of them? I honestly don’t know.

If I owned a euroleague team and had 5 NBA players, would I want to pay a bunch of money for a 6th man? Probably not. If you throw in Turkey and Russia, are there enough total teams with rich owners to pay a significant number of NBA players? I’m just curious what percentage of players could play overseas before jobs dry up, that’s all.[/quote]

It doesn’t really matter.

If the League is taking a stance on a hard salary cap and a 33% cut of all salaries the head of NBPA will not budge. The NHL players locked out a year before accepting such a deal. I think the same thing is going to happen again.[/quote]

Holy shit are the owners really demanding a 33% cut in ALL players’ salaries? Sheesh now I know why people are saying the situation is really bad. No union is going to agree to conditions like that, at least not without a lengthy war.

[/quote]

That’s what I read a while ago.

420

^^^Damn, didn’t know it was a 35% cut across the board. That’s intense.