Don’t forget the guy with the most MVPs from that era.
/endtrolling
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Don’t forget the guy with the most MVPs from that era.
/endtrolling[/quote]
I was gonna say something till I read the /endtrolling part lol.
[quote]overstand wrote:
Kobe’s all time ranking is tough for me. He’s had a top 10 GOAT career no doubt, but there is no getting around the fact that he was the 2nd option to Shaq for his first 3 rings, and I also believe his defense is so overrated it’s sickening. [/quote]
He defense used to be great, but he doensn’t have young enough legs to give it his 100% effort the entire game anymore, so he is overrated based on past performance. But, it happens with a lot of aging but still effective guys who were formerly great players.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Shaq vs. Duncan is a classic “peak” vs. “longevity” debate. Duncan also has a bigger effect on team defense, he’s like a coach on the floor.
Also, what I wrote in the post that got lost, I sorted all players by total win shares 2000-2010 (I hate win shares as a catch-all stat, but it is an interesting starting point for these discussions) and much to my shock, Dirk led Kobe/Duncan by a pretty significant margin.
[/quote]
Yeah Duncan definitely stayed healthier, but Shaq was still very productive all the way up ti his 14th season (this is Duncan’s 15). We’ll have to see how Duncan finishes his career but if you compare their first 15 years in the league, I think Shaq is significantly ahead. I will say though, Duncan had a greater impact on his team than Shaq ever did on any of his teams.[/quote]
On the other hand, Shaq was a liability at the end of games due to FT shooting, wasn’t nearly as good at defense (block numbers don’t represent total defensive impact), and if Duncan wins this year he’ll have 5 rings and never have played with anyone as good as Kobe or Wade.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Shaq vs. Duncan is a classic “peak” vs. “longevity” debate. Duncan also has a bigger effect on team defense, he’s like a coach on the floor.
Also, what I wrote in the post that got lost, I sorted all players by total win shares 2000-2010 (I hate win shares as a catch-all stat, but it is an interesting starting point for these discussions) and much to my shock, Dirk led Kobe/Duncan by a pretty significant margin.
[/quote]
Yeah Duncan definitely stayed healthier, but Shaq was still very productive all the way up ti his 14th season (this is Duncan’s 15). We’ll have to see how Duncan finishes his career but if you compare their first 15 years in the league, I think Shaq is significantly ahead. I will say though, Duncan had a greater impact on his team than Shaq ever did on any of his teams.[/quote]
On the other hand, Shaq was a liability at the end of games due to FT shooting, wasn’t nearly as good at defense (block numbers don’t represent total defensive impact), and if Duncan wins this year he’ll have 5 rings and never have played with anyone as good as Kobe or Wade.[/quote]
David Robinson was pretty damn good
First off, calling Shaq the most dominant player of all time is retarded. He was the most dominant physical force ever, but he was actually an underachiever compared with his physical gifts. Even so, Duncan is/was not on his level. Duncan is also a career 69% ft shooter, so he’s somewhat of a liability down the stretch. Of this era, Bryant is hands down the best player. He’s won more than anyone, put up numbers no one else can touch and put himself in a position where he’s competing against the GOAT. Even if Duncan gets his 5th (which would be cool), Bryant’s individual numbers put him ahead, especially when considering he curtailed his game due to Shaq for so many years.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Shaq vs. Duncan is a classic “peak” vs. “longevity” debate. Duncan also has a bigger effect on team defense, he’s like a coach on the floor.
Also, what I wrote in the post that got lost, I sorted all players by total win shares 2000-2010 (I hate win shares as a catch-all stat, but it is an interesting starting point for these discussions) and much to my shock, Dirk led Kobe/Duncan by a pretty significant margin.
[/quote]
Yeah Duncan definitely stayed healthier, but Shaq was still very productive all the way up ti his 14th season (this is Duncan’s 15). We’ll have to see how Duncan finishes his career but if you compare their first 15 years in the league, I think Shaq is significantly ahead. I will say though, Duncan had a greater impact on his team than Shaq ever did on any of his teams.[/quote]
On the other hand, Shaq was a liability at the end of games due to FT shooting, wasn’t nearly as good at defense (block numbers don’t represent total defensive impact), and if Duncan wins this year he’ll have 5 rings and never have played with anyone as good as Kobe or Wade.[/quote]
David Robinson was pretty damn good
[/quote]
David Robinson was AWESOME, but in Duncan’s defense as it pertains to this argument Robinson’s back was peanut brittle when Duncan got drafted and he wasn’t the same player.
Duncan is boring as hell… but he is really friggin good.
I mean seriously… the guy is 7 feet tall and his name is Timmy? LOL
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Griz have proven they are tough for the Spurs, but the LA Chris Pauls have CP3 who is just fucking ruthless in the last 5 minutes of games. IMO he’s the best closer in the game right now.
[/quote]
Thems fightin’ words.[/quote]
Heh try as I might, I can’t disagree with scj here. To watch CP out there is to watch complete control, control mastery of the position. Much like Stevie Nash, he always seems to make the right decision out there and he’s got that Jordan/Bryant “refuse to lose” thing going on too.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
If Tim Duncan wins a 5th ring with Pop, where do we rank him and Kobe as the best players of their era? Which is first and which is second?[/quote]
Copout disclaimer: Citing the whole ‘wing vs big’ distinction, I’m gonna say they’re the TWO best winners of the most recent era. And yes, I did say “winners” because teammates are such a huge part of the thing. (ie. look at the bigs that have played/are playing alongside Bryant).
Now if we throw out “total rings won” as the primary criterion, then it’s easy: the best player is Lebron. And has been, for a good minute now…
[edit - and if I get flamed re: James, keep in mind NO ONE would’ve had a problem with him getting this year’s DPOY ahead of T Chandler. and we know he’s getting MVP, so yeah, pretty huge difference-maker at both ends is pretty huge]
What do you guys think of the Nets’ new jerseys? I think the whole black and white thing is pretty cool. It definitely differentiates them uniform-wise - I can’t say the same thing about any thing else they do. The uniforms give off that old-school, ‘hard times’ vibe, which I guess embodies the Brooklyn culture.
But this writer at the NY Post is pretty racist:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Griz have proven they are tough for the Spurs, but the LA Chris Pauls have CP3 who is just fucking ruthless in the last 5 minutes of games. IMO he’s the best closer in the game right now.
[/quote]
Thems fightin’ words.[/quote]
Heh try as I might, I can’t disagree with scj here. To watch CP out there is to watch complete control, control mastery of the position. Much like Stevie Nash, he always seems to make the right decision out there and he’s got that Jordan/Bryant “refuse to lose” thing going on too.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
If Tim Duncan wins a 5th ring with Pop, where do we rank him and Kobe as the best players of their era? Which is first and which is second?[/quote]
Copout disclaimer: Citing the whole ‘wing vs big’ distinction, I’m gonna say they’re the TWO best winners of the most recent era. And yes, I did say “winners” because teammates are such a huge part of the thing. (ie. look at the bigs that have played/are playing alongside Bryant).
Now if we throw out “total rings won” as the primary criterion, then it’s easy: the best player is Lebron. And has been, for a good minute now…
[edit - and if I get flamed re: James, keep in mind NO ONE would’ve had a problem with him getting this year’s DPOY ahead of T Chandler. and we know he’s getting MVP, so yeah, pretty huge difference-maker at both ends is pretty huge]
[/quote]
I agree. All LeBron needs to do is win one ring and it drastically changes the whole conversation.
I’m not really big on complaining about the ref’s but this Lakers game has been ridiculous at times.
I told you on the last page beat the Nuggets first and prove you can handle OKC before you get too excited. Your Laker team isn’t really that good.
Picked up the Bulls ‘dynasty series’ on DVD today (1990s)
Finished first DVD watching game 5 of the 1991 NBA finals and god damn dat dere Bulls defense!!!
Should kill my mother for not having me at 16.
[quote]Teledin wrote:
Picked up the Bulls ‘dynasty series’ on DVD today (1990s)
Finished first DVD watching game 5 of the 1991 NBA finals and god damn dat dere Bulls defense!!!
Should kill my mother for not having me at 16.[/quote]
#1 reason why i have ZERO, NADA, NO pity for the poor cubs fans…
end rant/
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
I told you on the last page beat the Nuggets first and prove you can handle OKC before you get too excited. Your Laker team isn’t really that good.[/quote]
I’m starting to think this is Kobe’s last chance at another title. OKc is just too damn good now, Westbrook has been arguably the best pg in the league.
Unless World “Peace” can “celebrate” his next dunk with a kick to Durants head this Laker team will not beat OKC
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
What do you guys think of the Nets’ new jerseys? I think the whole black and white thing is pretty cool. It definitely differentiates them uniform-wise - I can’t say the same thing about any thing else they do. The uniforms give off that old-school, ‘hard times’ vibe, which I guess embodies the Brooklyn culture.
But this writer at the NY Post is pretty racist:
Like the Jerseys…I usually agree with a lot that Muschnick says but this was real idiotic move on his part…he more than anyone else should know better
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
What do you guys think of the Nets’ new jerseys? I think the whole black and white thing is pretty cool. It definitely differentiates them uniform-wise - I can’t say the same thing about any thing else they do. The uniforms give off that old-school, ‘hard times’ vibe, which I guess embodies the Brooklyn culture.
But this writer at the NY Post is pretty racist:
Like the Jerseys…I usually agree with a lot that Muschnick says but this was real idiotic move on his part…he more than anyone else should know better[/quote]
for real… I don’t know how he can type that in his article and NOT expect crazy backlash.
Skip Bayless says LeBron James isn’t a first ballot HOFer…
WTF…how is this guy still on TV?
I bet that question has been raised quite a few times when referring to Skip.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Skip Bayless says LeBron James isn’t a first ballot HOFer…
WTF…how is this guy still on TV?
I bet that question has been raised quite a few times when referring to Skip. [/quote]
Dude is just in it for shock value, he has to know that he makes no sense and just says things to rise out of ppl. Similar to colin cowherd, only better at it.
I dislike Lebald very much (big Cavs fan) but there is no denying he’s one of the best ever. With, or Without a ring.