Naughty Parents

Off Topic
21

[quote]Phate89 wrote:
This is one thing about American family culture I hate. The society revolves around each others individualism while other countries are more collective.

In America, you put your parents in a retirement home and ditch them

In other countries, your close to all your families and you take care of your parents when they are older.

They take care of you. Then you end up taking care of them.[/quote]

I was going to ignore this post, but here’s what I think.

I am not sure where you are from, but nowhere in the world is perfect. I’ve been to several other countries, and each has it’s problems.

Yes Americans are more individualistic, but we don’t all “ditch” our parents in retirement homes. That was the reason for the post buddy. I am struggling with the decision in spite of years of mistreatment.

Unfortunately, in order to look after mom as she gets older I’d have to quit my job. Can’t do that, I need to work another 20 years or so.

Cheers!, ciao, au revoir, adios or whatever.

22

[quote]Lady_J wrote:
In today’s america parent aren’t doin such a hot job…teenage pregnancies, school shootings, polygamist groups where men impregnate their daughters, men killing their pregnant wives, mothers drowning and shooting their children…

What has to be done for it to be considered “taking care” of a child? AS long as they’re fed and clothed all is good? I think not…[/quote]

So true. I have zero obligations to my patents or siblings. I did promise myself however, that if I had children (one daughter, seventeen) they would be nurtured and raised with TLC. I call it breaking the chain.

A family that does not bond, is doomed. For the most part western culture is to obsessed with materialism instead of family. Children are farmed out and raised by others from as young as one year.

There is zero bonding with the parents. Which leads to all the youth problems our culture is dealing with. Alienation of the family unit is the disease of western culture. If the chain is not broken our problems will only multiple expidentially.

There are times then I think about how it should have been. How it could have been and realize it will never be for me. It will be however for my daughter. If we do not learn from history we will be doomed to repeat it, I think that’s how the saying goes.

23

[quote]eric_lacrosse wrote:
pdub wrote:
Man thats some hard shit. I have been a caregiver on 2 seperate occasions and understand the complex array of emotions that come along with caring for someone older than yourself (anger, resentment, guilt…) and feel where you are coming from.
Family is important obviously, but as cliche as it is, you can’t help someone who is not willing to accept your help-or at least meet you halfway.
Is it possible to talk with her and put her in an assisted living communitiy?

eric_lacrosse wrote:

How do you explain this to the women in your life streamline?

Women judge a man based upon how he treats his mom. Disowning your mom would be a huge red flag no matter how justifiable. This is a big part of the dilemma.

A couple women I have dated were scared off by this. They never had the complete story on mom, just knew we were not close.

And as far as the women go…fuck them if you ever try to explain and they refuse to understand.

Pdub, regarding assisted living or nursing homes, mom says she will wander off into the cold and lie down in the snow to die before she goes into one of those places. Do you think she is playing the guilt card?
[/quote]

Thats hard to say as whether or not she is playing any type of “guilt card”. Some people are just too proud or lack the understanding of assisted living communities to ever agree to going to one.

I think that there has been great improvements in many of these types of places within the last 20 years, and the level of care has gone up tremendously.

This may be one of those situations where you just need to sit down, and try to see your life 10 years down the line. Will you be regretting whatever decision you decide to make? Because unfortunately huge life decisions like this is ultimately only up to you.

Wish I could be of more help. Good luck.

24

[quote]streamline wrote:
Lady_J wrote:
In today’s america parent aren’t doin such a hot job…teenage pregnancies, school shootings, polygamist groups where men impregnate their daughters, men killing their pregnant wives, mothers drowning and shooting their children…

What has to be done for it to be considered “taking care” of a child? AS long as they’re fed and clothed all is good? I think not…

So true. I have zero obligations to my patents or siblings. I did promise myself however, that if I had children (one daughter, seventeen) they would be nurtured and raised with TLC. I call it breaking the chain.

A family that does not bond, is doomed. For the most part western culture is to obsessed with materialism instead of family. Children are farmed out and raised by others from as young as one year.

There is zero bonding with the parents. Which leads to all the youth problems our culture is dealing with. Alienation of the family unit is the disease of western culture. If the chain is not broken our problems will only multiple expidentially.

There are times then I think about how it should have been. How it could have been and realize it will never be for me. It will be however for my daughter. If we do not learn from history we will be doomed to repeat it, I think that’s how the saying goes.[/quote]

I want to have children to break the chain, and to give the love I did not get as a child.

Perhaps it’s still the wrong reason, but in my mind I am trying to make up for the sins against my brother and me.

25

[quote]Phate89 wrote:
This is one thing about American family culture I hate. The society revolves around each others individualism while other countries are more collective.

In America, you put your parents in a retirement home and ditch them

In other countries, your close to all your families and you take care of your parents when they are older.

They take care of you. Then you end up taking care of them.[/quote]

I certainly would not call putting a parent in a retirement home ditching them. If you can not take care of your parent what other option do you have? If they have some type of disease or disorder that requires constant supervision, how would you take care of them and hold down a job?

These retirement homes can be a good option for certain people and does not need to be viewed as a landfill for unwanted geriatrics. Often times they are staffed with caring and trained professionals.

If you cant take care of yourself than you cant take care of anyone else. And if taking care of someone else means you cant take care of yourself…well you get it.

26

[quote]eric_lacrosse wrote:
streamline wrote:
Lady_J wrote:
In today’s america parent aren’t doin such a hot job…teenage pregnancies, school shootings, polygamist groups where men impregnate their daughters, men killing their pregnant wives, mothers drowning and shooting their children…

What has to be done for it to be considered “taking care” of a child? AS long as they’re fed and clothed all is good? I think not…

So true. I have zero obligations to my patents or siblings. I did promise myself however, that if I had children (one daughter, seventeen) they would be nurtured and raised with TLC. I call it breaking the chain.

A family that does not bond, is doomed. For the most part western culture is to obsessed with materialism instead of family. Children are farmed out and raised by others from as young as one year.

There is zero bonding with the parents. Which leads to all the youth problems our culture is dealing with. Alienation of the family unit is the disease of western culture. If the chain is not broken our problems will only multiple expidentially.

There are times then I think about how it should have been. How it could have been and realize it will never be for me. It will be however for my daughter. If we do not learn from history we will be doomed to repeat it, I think that’s how the saying goes.

I want to have children to break the chain, and to give the love I did not get as a child.

Perhaps it’s still the wrong reason, but in my mind I am trying to make up for the sins against my brother and me.
[/quote]

If you want to love a child who cares if it benefits you as well by helping heal some of your wounds? That’s all the more reason i think. I need my daughter just as much as she needs me, for the same exact reasons

27

[quote]MsM wrote:

Have you tried speaking with her doctor at all?

[/quote]

As a matter of fact, I spoke to mom’s doctor last Friday. She signed paperwork to enable them to discuss her care with them. Doc had no clue she was drinking while on the pile of medications he has prescribed. He said he wants me to check in with him often.

He says he can treat depression, but not personality disorders. I need to get her to agree to see a psychologist and, she will never do that because it is my problem not hers. That’s NPD for you. It’s everyone else who is wrong, never you.

28

[quote]Lady_J wrote:
eric_lacrosse wrote:
streamline wrote:
Lady_J wrote:
In today’s america parent aren’t doin such a hot job…teenage pregnancies, school shootings, polygamist groups where men impregnate their daughters, men killing their pregnant wives, mothers drowning and shooting their children…

What has to be done for it to be considered “taking care” of a child? AS long as they’re fed and clothed all is good? I think not…

So true. I have zero obligations to my patents or siblings. I did promise myself however, that if I had children (one daughter, seventeen) they would be nurtured and raised with TLC. I call it breaking the chain.

A family that does not bond, is doomed. For the most part western culture is to obsessed with materialism instead of family. Children are farmed out and raised by others from as young as one year.

There is zero bonding with the parents. Which leads to all the youth problems our culture is dealing with. Alienation of the family unit is the disease of western culture. If the chain is not broken our problems will only multiple expidentially.

There are times then I think about how it should have been. How it could have been and realize it will never be for me. It will be however for my daughter. If we do not learn from history we will be doomed to repeat it, I think that’s how the saying goes.

I want to have children to break the chain, and to give the love I did not get as a child.

Perhaps it’s still the wrong reason, but in my mind I am trying to make up for the sins against my brother and me.

If you want to love a child who cares if it benefits you as well by helping heal some of your wounds? That’s all the more reason i think. I need my daughter just as much as she needs me, for the same exact reasons

[/quote]

Ditto!

29

[quote]eric_lacrosse wrote:
Phate89 wrote:
This is one thing about American family culture I hate. The society revolves around each others individualism while other countries are more collective.

In America, you put your parents in a retirement home and ditch them

In other countries, your close to all your families and you take care of your parents when they are older.

They take care of you. Then you end up taking care of them.

I was going to ignore this post, but here’s what I think.

I am not sure where you are from, but nowhere in the world is perfect. I’ve been to several other countries, and each has it’s problems.

Yes Americans are more individualistic, but we don’t all “ditch” our parents in retirement homes. That was the reason for the post buddy. I am struggling with the decision in spite of years of mistreatment.

Unfortunately, in order to look after mom as she gets older I’d have to quit my job. Can’t do that, I need to work another 20 years or so.

Cheers!, ciao, au revoir, adios or whatever.[/quote]

I didn’t say everyone did that, but a lot do.
Just pointing out the difference between American families and familes from the eastearn side of the world.

My grandfather was old, couldn’t even take a shower without help. But you know what, our families are close. Brothers, sisters, cousins, second cousins, etc. We find a way to take care of each other. I hardly see this in America.

30

[quote]pdub wrote:
Phate89 wrote:
This is one thing about American family culture I hate. The society revolves around each others individualism while other countries are more collective.

In America, you put your parents in a retirement home and ditch them

In other countries, your close to all your families and you take care of your parents when they are older.

They take care of you. Then you end up taking care of them.

I certainly would not call putting a parent in a retirement home ditching them. If you can not take care of your parent what other option do you have? If they have some type of disease or disorder that requires constant supervision, how would you take care of them and hold down a job?

These retirement homes can be a good option for certain people and does not need to be viewed as a landfill for unwanted geriatrics. Often times they are staffed with caring and trained professionals.

If you cant take care of yourself than you cant take care of anyone else. And if taking care of someone else means you cant take care of yourself…well you get it.
[/quote]

I understand that sometimes, the circumstances work against you where you are by yourself and your parent is mentally ill.

But i’ve done community service in a retirement home during H.S and let me tell you, that was the most depressing place i have ever been. Most of the people there were perfectly normal, but their kids didn’t want to take care of them or put up with them even after all their parents did to raise them.

All they wanted was someone to talk to, someone to share their stories. And it sucks they have to live their last years in some fucked up retirement home, lonely, depressed, when they should be taken care of and RESPECTED by their family members.

31

[quote]pdub wrote:
Phate89 wrote:
This is one thing about American family culture I hate. The society revolves around each others individualism while other countries are more collective.

In America, you put your parents in a retirement home and ditch them

In other countries, your close to all your families and you take care of your parents when they are older.

They take care of you. Then you end up taking care of them.

I certainly would not call putting a parent in a retirement home ditching them. If you can not take care of your parent what other option do you have? If they have some type of disease or disorder that requires constant supervision, how would you take care of them and hold down a job?

These retirement homes can be a good option for certain people and does not need to be viewed as a landfill for unwanted geriatrics. Often times they are staffed with caring and trained professionals.

If you cant take care of yourself than you cant take care of anyone else. And if taking care of someone else means you cant take care of yourself…well you get it.
[/quote]

I understand that sometimes, the circumstances work against you where you are by yourself and your parent is mentally ill.

But i’ve done community service in a retirement home during H.S and let me tell you, that was the most depressing place i have ever been. Most of the people there were perfectly normal, but their kids didn’t want to take care of them or put up with them even after all their parents did to raise them.

All they wanted was someone to talk to, someone to share their stories. And it sucks they have to live their last years in some fucked up retirement home, lonely, depressed, when they should be taken care of and RESPECTED by their family members.

32

[quote]Phate89 wrote:
I understand that sometimes, the circumstances work against you where you are by yourself and your parent is mentally ill.

But i’ve done community service in a retirement home during H.S and let me tell you, that was the most depressing place i have ever been. Most of the people there were perfectly normal, but their kids didn’t want to take care of them or put up with them even after all their parents did to raise them.

All they wanted was someone to talk to, someone to share their stories. And it sucks they have to live their last years in some fucked up retirement home, lonely, depressed, when they should be taken care of and RESPECTED by their family members.[/quote]

I don’t think you do understand and I certainly do not think you have ever been in this position yourself so I would not judge so hastily.

Volunteer work is not the same as having a loved one in the same predicament. No, retirement homes are not a nice place to be but they are not a babysitting service. Those people there are not perfectly normal. They need medical supervision 24/7.

My guess is the 89 in your name signifies your year of birth. Am I correct? Don’t compare your volunteer work to people’s real life decisions regarding their sick family members. It’s the equivalent to saying you read it in a book somewhere.

33

[quote]eric_lacrosse wrote:
MsM wrote:

Have you tried speaking with her doctor at all?

As a matter of fact, I spoke to mom’s doctor last Friday. She signed paperwork to enable them to discuss her care with them. Doc had no clue she was drinking while on the pile of medications he has prescribed. He said he wants me to check in with him often.

He says he can treat depression, but not personality disorders. I need to get her to agree to see a psychologist and, she will never do that because it is my problem not hers. That’s NPD for you. It’s everyone else who is wrong, never you.[/quote]

What did he tell you your options were? I know he told you what he cannot do but what did he recommend you try?

34

if this ever happened to my mom i would probably put her out of her misery

35

[quote]MsM wrote:
eric_lacrosse wrote:
MsM wrote:

Have you tried speaking with her doctor at all?

As a matter of fact, I spoke to mom’s doctor last Friday. She signed paperwork to enable them to discuss her care with them. Doc had no clue she was drinking while on the pile of medications he has prescribed. He said he wants me to check in with him often.

He says he can treat depression, but not personality disorders. I need to get her to agree to see a psychologist and, she will never do that because it is my problem not hers. That’s NPD for you. It’s everyone else who is wrong, never you.

What did he tell you your options were? I know he told you what he cannot do but what did he recommend you try?

[/quote]

He recommended talking to her about seeing a psychologist, which I already know wont happen. She thinks I am the one with the problem, and that’s typical of people with NPD.

As I mentioned, mom’s god daughter, a psychologist, told me that NPD’s tend not to improve with therapy because they think everyone else is wrong. From what I have read myself there is not much hope of improvement to the situation, especially not for someone at her age. I tried to attach a link to a site with more info, but it comes out garbled. Not sure how to insert a link, so I’ll just paste it here. Hope I am not stepping on anyones toes.

"If a person has been diagnosed with the Narcissistic Personality Disorder, therapy, in most cases, can only mitigate and ameliorate his condition, but not cure it.

Only narcissists, who go through a severe life crisis, tend to consider the possibility of therapy at all. When they attend the therapeutic sessions, they, usually, bring all their rigid defence mechanisms to the fore. The therapy quickly becomes a tedious and useless affair for both therapist and patient.

Most cerebral narcissists are very intelligent. They base their grandiose fantasies on these natural advantages. When faced with a reasoned analysis, which shows that they suffer from NPD most of them accept and acknowledge the new information. But first they have to face it and this is the difficult part: they all are deniers of reality.

Moreover, cognitively assimilating the information is a mere process of labeling. It has no psychodynamic effect. It does not affect the narcissists behavior patterns and interactions with his human environment. These are the products of veteran and rigid mental mechanisms.

Narcissists are PATHOLOGICAL liars. This means that they are either unaware of their lies or feel completely justified and at ease in lying to others. Often, they believe their own lies and attain “retroactive veracity”. Their very essence is a huge, contrived, lie: the FALSE Self, the grandiose FANTASIES, and the IDEALISED objects.

Personality disorders are ADAPTATIVE. This means that they help to resolve mental conflicts and the anxiety, which, normally, accompanies them.

Narcissists sometimes contemplate suicide (suicidal ideation) when they go through a crisis but they are not very likely to go beyond the contemplation phase.

Narcissists are, in a way, sadists. They are likely to use verbal and psychological abuse and violence against those closest to them. Some of them move from abstract aggression (the emotion leading to violence and permeating it) to the physically concrete sphere of violence. However, I have seen no research which proves that they are more prone to do so than any other group in the general population.

The NPD is a newcomer to the zoo of mental disorders. It was not fully defined until the late 1980’s. The discussion, analysis and study of narcissism are as old as psychology but there is a great difference between being a “mere” narcissist and having a NPD."

I know I have done my absolute best to get her out of a bad situation, but I will not be around this town forever to get her out next time.

My boss has been awesome since this situation arose, but when I take a job out of town or overseas, I cannot expect the new boss to be as lenient. I don’t think I am willing to take leave from work, fly thousands of miles to play the role of “rescuer-victim” again to quote the wise Miss Parker.

I really appreciate everyone’s input here. Talking this through with people who know neither me nor mom has been enlightening. I think I know what I need to do.

Thanks all!

Eric

36

[quote]eric_lacrosse wrote:
MsM wrote:
eric_lacrosse wrote:
MsM wrote:

Have you tried speaking with her doctor at all?

As a matter of fact, I spoke to mom’s doctor last Friday. She signed paperwork to enable them to discuss her care with them. Doc had no clue she was drinking while on the pile of medications he has prescribed. He said he wants me to check in with him often.

He says he can treat depression, but not personality disorders. I need to get her to agree to see a psychologist and, she will never do that because it is my problem not hers. That’s NPD for you. It’s everyone else who is wrong, never you.

What did he tell you your options were? I know he told you what he cannot do but what did he recommend you try?

He recommended talking to her about seeing a psychologist, which I already know wont happen. She thinks I am the one with the problem, and that’s typical of people with NPD.

As I mentioned, mom’s god daughter, a psychologist, told me that NPD’s tend not to improve with therapy because they think everyone else is wrong. From what I have read myself there is not much hope of improvement to the situation, especially not for someone at her age. I tried to attach a link to a site with more info, but it comes out garbled. Not sure how to insert a link, so I’ll just paste it here. Hope I am not stepping on anyones toes.

"If a person has been diagnosed with the Narcissistic Personality Disorder, therapy, in most cases, can only mitigate and ameliorate his condition, but not cure it.

Only narcissists, who go through a severe life crisis, tend to consider the possibility of therapy at all. When they attend the therapeutic sessions, they, usually, bring all their rigid defence mechanisms to the fore. The therapy quickly becomes a tedious and useless affair for both therapist and patient.

Most cerebral narcissists are very intelligent. They base their grandiose fantasies on these natural advantages. When faced with a reasoned analysis, which shows that they suffer from NPD most of them accept and acknowledge the new information. But first they have to face it and this is the difficult part: they all are deniers of reality.

Moreover, cognitively assimilating the information is a mere process of labeling. It has no psychodynamic effect. It does not affect the narcissists behavior patterns and interactions with his human environment. These are the products of veteran and rigid mental mechanisms.

Narcissists are PATHOLOGICAL liars. This means that they are either unaware of their lies or feel completely justified and at ease in lying to others. Often, they believe their own lies and attain “retroactive veracity”. Their very essence is a huge, contrived, lie: the FALSE Self, the grandiose FANTASIES, and the IDEALISED objects.

Personality disorders are ADAPTATIVE. This means that they help to resolve mental conflicts and the anxiety, which, normally, accompanies them.

Narcissists sometimes contemplate suicide (suicidal ideation) when they go through a crisis but they are not very likely to go beyond the contemplation phase.

Narcissists are, in a way, sadists. They are likely to use verbal and psychological abuse and violence against those closest to them. Some of them move from abstract aggression (the emotion leading to violence and permeating it) to the physically concrete sphere of violence. However, I have seen no research which proves that they are more prone to do so than any other group in the general population.

The NPD is a newcomer to the zoo of mental disorders. It was not fully defined until the late 1980’s. The discussion, analysis and study of narcissism are as old as psychology but there is a great difference between being a “mere” narcissist and having a NPD."

I know I have done my absolute best to get her out of a bad situation, but I will not be around this town forever to get her out next time.

My boss has been awesome since this situation arose, but when I take a job out of town or overseas, I cannot expect the new boss to be as lenient. I don’t think I am willing to take leave from work, fly thousands of miles to play the role of “rescuer-victim” again to quote the wise Miss Parker.

I really appreciate everyone’s input here. Talking this through with people who know neither me nor mom has been enlightening. I think I know what I need to do.

Thanks all!

Eric[/quote]

What ever you decide, you will have my support. It is a very difficult situation and I’m sure you have turmoiled with it for sometime before coming on the forums. Best of luck, stay strong!

37

Dude, you need to get away. She will destroy you.

My grandmother is the same way, always had been, to almost a T - it’s creepy, because I didn’t think there was anyone else like her kind of crazy. I completely understand where you are coming from.

After grandpa died, we went to her house and found it falling apart, full of holes in the floors, bare wires, and reeking garbage.

She lies about everything. She is the center of her own world. She has stabbed every person she has ever met on more than a casual basis in the back, and I have no doubt that she would murder someone if it got her what she wanted. One of her children stuck around through the crap, forgiving her over and over, and she eventually drove that one away too.

She is a master at playing the guilt card, and knows how to rip a persons heart open. She convinces herself of fantasies and truth, makes up the past, and convinces herself these things are real - she honestly believes the things she makes up.

I have watched her single-handely break up families with nothing but her mouth. I am simply amazed when I am around her, because the level she can take this too is beyond the comprehension of anyone who has never experienced it.

Her family tried doctors, tried meds, tried everything. Nursing homes resulted in slit wrists (several times), and pill over doses. Doctors ended up worthless because while they could recognize that she was, in every way, a complete nutcase, she was a master manipulator, and could get out of just about anything, didn’t take pills, etc.

She began calling and leaving horrible guilt messages for her children on the answering machine, and then she’d swallow a bottle of pills, and do a good job of making others feel like it was their fault.

The complex and evil web this women can weave, the shear level of her craziness, the manipulative, lying, sadistic brain of hers is a poison that cannot be fixed. Anyone who has experienced this type of person will eventually come to realize this.

In the end, all you can do is accept that you cared, you tried, and get the hell away. She will eventually destroy herself, as hard as you try to prevent it, and if you stick around, she’ll take you with her.

38

[quote]streamline wrote:

What ever you decide, you will have my support. It is a very difficult situation and I’m sure you have turmoiled with it for sometime before coming on the forums. Best of luck, stay strong![/quote]

Thanks Stream, that means a lot. Hang tough yourself bud.

39

[quote]Squiggles wrote:
Dude, you need to get away. She will destroy you.

My grandmother is the same way, always had been, to almost a T - it’s creepy, because I didn’t think there was anyone else like her kind of crazy. I completely understand where you are coming from.

After grandpa died, we went to her house and found it falling apart, full of holes in the floors, bare wires, and reeking garbage.

She lies about everything. She is the center of her own world. She has stabbed every person she has ever met on more than a casual basis in the back, and I have no doubt that she would murder someone if it got her what she wanted. One of her children stuck around through the crap, forgiving her over and over, and she eventually drove that one away too.

She is a master at playing the guilt card, and knows how to rip a persons heart open. She convinces herself of fantasies and truth, makes up the past, and convinces herself these things are real - she honestly believes the things she makes up.

I have watched her single-handely break up families with nothing but her mouth. I am simply amazed when I am around her, because the level she can take this too is beyond the comprehension of anyone who has never experienced it.

Her family tried doctors, tried meds, tried everything. Nursing homes resulted in slit wrists (several times), and pill over doses. Doctors ended up worthless because while they could recognize that she was, in every way, a complete nutcase, she was a master manipulator, and could get out of just about anything, didn’t take pills, etc.

She began calling and leaving horrible guilt messages for her children on the answering machine, and then she’d swallow a bottle of pills, and do a good job of making others feel like it was their fault.

The complex and evil web this women can weave, the shear level of her craziness, the manipulative, lying, sadistic brain of hers is a poison that cannot be fixed. Anyone who has experienced this type of person will eventually come to realize this.

In the end, all you can do is accept that you cared, you tried, and get the hell away. She will eventually destroy herself, as hard as you try to prevent it, and if you stick around, she’ll take you with her.

[/quote]

Wow. Your grandmother = my mom. When I found the page on NPD and read some of the others’ stories, I realized I was not alone in this either. It’s a terrible thing to have to choose between yourself and a parent.

40

[quote]Phate89 wrote:
eric_lacrosse wrote:
Phate89 wrote:
This is one thing about American family culture I hate. The society revolves around each others individualism while other countries are more collective.

In America, you put your parents in a retirement home and ditch them

In other countries, your close to all your families and you take care of your parents when they are older.

They take care of you. Then you end up taking care of them.

I was going to ignore this post, but here’s what I think.

I am not sure where you are from, but nowhere in the world is perfect. I’ve been to several other countries, and each has it’s problems.

Yes Americans are more individualistic, but we don’t all “ditch” our parents in retirement homes. That was the reason for the post buddy. I am struggling with the decision in spite of years of mistreatment.

Unfortunately, in order to look after mom as she gets older I’d have to quit my job. Can’t do that, I need to work another 20 years or so.

Cheers!, ciao, au revoir, adios or whatever.

I didn’t say everyone did that, but a lot do.
Just pointing out the difference between American families and familes from the eastearn side of the world.

My grandfather was old, couldn’t even take a shower without help. But you know what, our families are close. Brothers, sisters, cousins, second cousins, etc. We find a way to take care of each other. I hardly see this in America.[/quote]

America has gotten over the long-held and erroneous belief that people who share surnames have infinite obligation to each other. I see no reason to spread misery around when it may be contained within one individual. The OP’s mother is spreading such misery, and it is sad that the OP feels he has to subject himself to it. The idea of inveterate, unquestioning familial responsibility is what is currently casting the proverbial dark cloud over his life. Any sort of collectivism is bad philosophy, and (individual) people would be better without it.