[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Further, Pelosi’s vineyards and hotels don’t use union labor. How about that? Unions for thee, but not for me!
Real working class hero, that Pelosi.
[/quote]
I didn’t know this, though I know libs NEVER want unions in THEIR business. “They don’t need a union. If they don’t want to work here, they can quit!!” How libs can look in the mirror in the morning…goddam hypocrits!!
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Sure, because we all know that a nation can be taxed into prosperity. That always works.
[/sarcasm]
[/quote]
Yes they can, it’ great to see you coming around to reality.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
The government shouldn’t be dictating a mininum wage, period.[/quote]
Of course they should.
(scary stupidity here)
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Skystud wrote:
Ok, thundercult, What problem do you have with a raise of the minimum wage? This should be good. 
Oh, the Wikipedia article I referenced for 100meters has a nice summary:
[/quote]
Rest your fears…
Countless studies have shown modest minimum wage increase have had little to no effect on employment levels of low wage employees. This the classic conservative canard.
In 1968 when minimum wage was at it’s highest, unemployment was 3.8. Not too bad. Meanwhile productivity has increased 120 percent! And obviously increases in the 90’s on taxes and wages didn’t effect the economy. Nor is it having an effect on states that have higher minimum wages…
In fact it’s fun to compare minimum wages to the economic levels state by state (poor mississipi…) A number of living wage increases have happenened in cities across the country…all with little to no negative impact—often however with postitive impact.
For a good crash course on minimum wage myths—
http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/5632.html
And silly Jeffr thinks we’re not sweating! And he somehow gets to vote! Amazing!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Brad61 wrote:
“We believe in the marketplace,” Pelosi said of Democrats, then drew a contrast with Republicans. “They have only rewarded wealth, not work.”
You want your job, your home, good schools, law and order, and so forth. Yet you want to punish those who make all those things possible.
Have you ever heard of cause-and-effect?
No wonder our educational system is being destroyed. It creates people who think like you, who are much easier to rule. Stupids are always easier to rule than intelligent beings. Create people who see no difference between America and people living in jungle huts (Don’t judge other cultures!!)
Create people who think that jobs appear by magic, that wealth producers don’t mind sharing what they sweated for, with those who produce nothing. There’s no causality — nothing has causes!!
Libs…I just gotta shake my head in absolute wonder…
[/quote]
Did wealth producers make tons of money in the 90’s?
Did taxes increase?
Did wages increase?
Did revenues increase?
Did poverty go down?
cause and effect -bitch.
Please.
SHUT.
UP.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Create people who think that jobs appear by magic, that wealth producers don’t mind sharing what they sweated for, with those who produce nothing. There’s no causality — nothing has causes!!
Libs…I just gotta shake my head in absolute wonder…
[/quote]
Hey we’re not all retards. There has to be somebody who looks out for those who have to do shitty jobs for a living. Our society takes advantage of the downtrodden just fine without making it any worse.
But as with anything, when there is an imbalance of power, problems occur. If you give unions too much control, they will fuck shit up just as certainly as when there are no protections for employees to prevent them from being abused.
This is common sense. What we want is for people to get a fair chance, and that becomes impossible when the fairness is thrown out the window in the name of record profits. In other words, make all the money you want, but don’t cornhole the defenseless to get there.
But I suppose my liberal ideas don’t make any sense to you. Excuse me, I have to get back to my sweatshop. My fifteen second lunch break is up.
[quote]Skystud wrote:
It’s time for government to do what it is supposed to do. To do for the people that which the people can’t do for themselves.
[/quote]
And this demonstrates what’s wrong with you. I don’t want my government playing nursemaid. You want to be charitable? Pawn the computer you’re typing at and give away the profit. Stop trying to dictate by force, and threat of violence, your idea of charity.
[quote]100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
The government shouldn’t be dictating a mininum wage, period.
Of course they should.
(scary stupidity here)
[/quote]
Want to get offensive, you fucking douche-bag? Keep your stupidity comments out of the discussion. Just because you’re such a god damn mental-midget you can’t understand the fact that the majority of economists say “You’re wrong, bitch!” about the mw.
Are you scared that someone might want to keep their earnings? Are you scared someone might take the government tit away.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
The government shouldn’t be dictating a mininum wage, period.
Of course they should.
(scary stupidity here)
Want to get offensive, you fucking douche-bag? Keep your stupidity comments out of the discussion. Just because you’re such a god damn mental-midget you can’t understand the fact that the majority of economists say “You’re wrong, bitch!” about the mw.
[/quote].
And of course you understand that the minority of economists disagree with the majority on the basis of REALITY DISAGREES WITH THEM.
http://www.americanprogress.org/kf/min_wage_ohio_event.pdf
http://www.cows.org/about_publications_detail.asp?id=378
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/studies_stmwp
http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/5632.html
Your party disagrees with MW because they are paid to. Period.
My party agrees with MW because it works. (SEE: reality) or the 90’s
And OF COURSE
I accept your apology in advance.
bitch.
p.s.
you’d be alot more credible if you just knew what you’re talking about. Otherwise you sound as stupid as the Repbulicans who made the dire predictions before Clinton raised taxes on the rich and minimum wage.
In otherwords, a horse tooth jackass.
[quote]100meters wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Brad61 wrote:
“We believe in the marketplace,” Pelosi said of Democrats, then drew a contrast with Republicans. “They have only rewarded wealth, not work.”
You want your job, your home, good schools, law and order, and so forth. Yet you want to punish those who make all those things possible.
Have you ever heard of cause-and-effect?
No wonder our educational system is being destroyed. It creates people who think like you, who are much easier to rule. Stupids are always easier to rule than intelligent beings. Create people who see no difference between America and people living in jungle huts (Don’t judge other cultures!!)
Create people who think that jobs appear by magic, that wealth producers don’t mind sharing what they sweated for, with those who produce nothing. There’s no causality — nothing has causes!!
Libs…I just gotta shake my head in absolute wonder…
Did wealth producers make tons of money in the 90’s?
Did taxes increase?
Did wages increase?
Did revenues increase?
Did poverty go down?
cause and effect -bitch.
Please.
SHUT.
UP.[/quote]
Nope, not so long as you and your insane crowd want to rule this country.
You do realize that lower taxes actually create(d) more revenue?
Who pays most of the taxes in this country? You know who, and you want to punish them for success. So, success is followed by punishment? That seems rooted in a perverse kind of death-wish. Is that what liberalism is?
Hey pillow biter.
http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba292.html
http://www.house.gov/jec/cost-gov/regs/minimum/50years.htm (From this link, look below. Feel free to pull up all those studies and surveys to check them out yourself. The bulk of the evidence is clear. And it’s why the majority of Economist answered the survey above, as they did. Feel free to post your apology. No go sell you computer and feed some poor person with the profit.)
The minimum wage reduces employment.
Currie and Fallick (1993), Gallasch (1975), Gardner (1981), Peterson (1957), Peterson and Stewart (1969).
The minimum wage reduces employment more among teenagers than adults.
Adie (1973); Brown, Gilroy and Kohen (1981a, 1981b); Fleisher (1981); Hammermesh (1982); Meyer and Wise (1981, 1983a); Minimum Wage Study Commission (1981); Neumark and Wascher (1992); Ragan (1977); Vandenbrink (1987); Welch (1974, 1978); Welch and Cunningham (1978).
The minimum wage reduces employment most among black teenage males.
Al-Salam, Quester, and Welch (1981), Iden (1980), Mincer (1976), Moore (1971), Ragan (1977), Williams (1977a, 1977b).
The minimum wage helped South African whites at the expense of blacks.
Bauer (1959).
The minimum wage hurts blacks generally.
Behrman, Sickles and Taubman (1983); Linneman (1982).
The minimum wage hurts the unskilled.
Krumm (1981).
The minimum wage hurts low wage workers.
Brozen (1962), Cox and Oaxaca (1986), Gordon (1981).
The minimum wage hurts low wage workers particularly during cyclical downturns.
Kosters and Welch (1972), Welch (1974).
The minimum wage increases job turnover.
Hall (1982).
The minimum wage reduces average earnings of young workers.
Meyer and Wise (1983b).
The minimum wage drives workers into uncovered jobs, thus lowering wages in those sectors.
Brozen (1962), Tauchen (1981), Welch (1974).
The minimum wage reduces employment in low-wage industries, such as retailing.
Cotterman (1981), Douty (1960), Fleisher (1981), Hammermesh (1981), Peterson (1981).
The minimum wage hurts small businesses generally.
Kaun (1965).
The minimum wage causes employers to cut back on training.
Hashimoto (1981, 1982), Leighton and Mincer (1981), Ragan (1981).
The minimum wage has long-term effects on skills and lifetime earnings.
Brozen (1969), Feldstein (1973).
The minimum wage leads employers to cut back on fringe benefits.
McKenzie (1980), Wessels (1980).
The minimum wage encourages employers to install labor-saving devices.
Trapani and Moroney (1981).
The minimum wage hurts low-wage regions, such as the South and rural areas.
Colberg (1960, 1981), Krumm (1981).
The minimum wage increases the number of people on welfare.
Brandon (1995), Leffler (1978).
The minimum wage hurts the poor generally.
Stigler (1946).
The minimum wage does little to reduce poverty.
Bonilla (1992), Brown (1988), Johnson and Browning (1983), Kohen and Gilroy (1981), Parsons (1980), Smith and Vavrichek (1987).
The minimum wage helps upper income families.
Bell (1981), Datcher and Loury (1981), Johnson and Browning (1981), Kohen and Gilroy (1981).
The minimum wage helps unions.
Linneman (1982), Cox and Oaxaca (1982).
The minimum wage lowers the capital stock.
McCulloch (1981).
The minimum wage increases inflationary pressure.
Adams (1987), Brozen (1966), Gramlich (1976), Grossman (1983).
The minimum wage increases teenage crime rates.
Hashimoto (1987), Phillips (1981).
The minimum wage encourages employers to hire illegal aliens.
Beranek (1982).
Few workers are permanently stuck at the minimum wage.
Brozen (1969), Smith and Vavrichek (1992).
The minimum wage has had a massive impact on unemployment in Puerto Rico.
Freeman and Freeman (1991), Rottenberg (1981b).
The minimum wage has reduced employment in foreign countries.
Canada: Forrest (1982); Chile: Corbo (1981); Costa Rica: Gregory (1981); France: Rosa (1981).
Characteristics of minimum wage workers
Employment Policies Institute (1994), Haugen and Mellor (1990), Kniesner (1981), Mellor (1987), Mellor and Haugen (1986), Smith and Vavrichek (1987), Van Giezen (1994).
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
100meters wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Brad61 wrote:
“We believe in the marketplace,” Pelosi said of Democrats, then drew a contrast with Republicans. “They have only rewarded wealth, not work.”
You want your job, your home, good schools, law and order, and so forth. Yet you want to punish those who make all those things possible.
Have you ever heard of cause-and-effect?
No wonder our educational system is being destroyed. It creates people who think like you, who are much easier to rule. Stupids are always easier to rule than intelligent beings. Create people who see no difference between America and people living in jungle huts (Don’t judge other cultures!!)
Create people who think that jobs appear by magic, that wealth producers don’t mind sharing what they sweated for, with those who produce nothing. There’s no causality — nothing has causes!!
Libs…I just gotta shake my head in absolute wonder…
Did wealth producers make tons of money in the 90’s?
Did taxes increase?
Did wages increase?
Did revenues increase?
Did poverty go down?
cause and effect -bitch.
Please.
SHUT.
UP.
Nope, not so long as you and your insane crowd want to rule this country.
You do realize that lower taxes actually create(d) more revenue?
Who pays most of the taxes in this country? You know who, and you want to punish them for success. So, success is followed by punishment? That seems rooted in a perverse kind of death-wish. Is that what liberalism is?
[/quote]
More revenue than what? The previous 4 years of really low revenue. And still not paying for themselves. Or what does the OMB say about the tax cuts?(in other words google first)
And did you know that raising taxes will increase revenues?
Odd that you see investing in america as a punishment(explains alot).
No true patriot objects to paying taxes and paris hilton will be fine when her taxes return to pre-bush levels as everybody knows they have to.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Hey pillow biter.
http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba292.html
http://www.house.gov/jec/cost-gov/regs/minimum/50years.htm (From this link, look below. Feel free to pull up all those studies and surveys to check them out yourself. The bulk of the evidence is clear. And it’s why the majority of Economist answered the survey above, as they did. Feel free to post your apology. No go sell you computer and feed some poor person with the profit.)
The minimum wage reduces employment.
Currie and Fallick (1993), Gallasch (1975), Gardner (1981), Peterson (1957), Peterson and Stewart (1969).
The minimum wage reduces employment more among teenagers than adults.
Adie (1973); Brown, Gilroy and Kohen (1981a, 1981b); Fleisher (1981); Hammermesh (1982); Meyer and Wise (1981, 1983a); Minimum Wage Study Commission (1981); Neumark and Wascher (1992); Ragan (1977); Vandenbrink (1987); Welch (1974, 1978); Welch and Cunningham (1978).
The minimum wage reduces employment most among black teenage males.
Al-Salam, Quester, and Welch (1981), Iden (1980), Mincer (1976), Moore (1971), Ragan (1977), Williams (1977a, 1977b).
The minimum wage helped South African whites at the expense of blacks.
Bauer (1959).
The minimum wage hurts blacks generally.
Behrman, Sickles and Taubman (1983); Linneman (1982).
The minimum wage hurts the unskilled.
Krumm (1981).
The minimum wage hurts low wage workers.
Brozen (1962), Cox and Oaxaca (1986), Gordon (1981).
The minimum wage hurts low wage workers particularly during cyclical downturns.
Kosters and Welch (1972), Welch (1974).
The minimum wage increases job turnover.
Hall (1982).
The minimum wage reduces average earnings of young workers.
Meyer and Wise (1983b).
The minimum wage drives workers into uncovered jobs, thus lowering wages in those sectors.
Brozen (1962), Tauchen (1981), Welch (1974).
The minimum wage reduces employment in low-wage industries, such as retailing.
Cotterman (1981), Douty (1960), Fleisher (1981), Hammermesh (1981), Peterson (1981).
The minimum wage hurts small businesses generally.
Kaun (1965).
The minimum wage causes employers to cut back on training.
Hashimoto (1981, 1982), Leighton and Mincer (1981), Ragan (1981).
The minimum wage has long-term effects on skills and lifetime earnings.
Brozen (1969), Feldstein (1973).
The minimum wage leads employers to cut back on fringe benefits.
McKenzie (1980), Wessels (1980).
The minimum wage encourages employers to install labor-saving devices.
Trapani and Moroney (1981).
The minimum wage hurts low-wage regions, such as the South and rural areas.
Colberg (1960, 1981), Krumm (1981).
The minimum wage increases the number of people on welfare.
Brandon (1995), Leffler (1978).
The minimum wage hurts the poor generally.
Stigler (1946).
The minimum wage does little to reduce poverty.
Bonilla (1992), Brown (1988), Johnson and Browning (1983), Kohen and Gilroy (1981), Parsons (1980), Smith and Vavrichek (1987).
The minimum wage helps upper income families.
Bell (1981), Datcher and Loury (1981), Johnson and Browning (1981), Kohen and Gilroy (1981).
The minimum wage helps unions.
Linneman (1982), Cox and Oaxaca (1982).
The minimum wage lowers the capital stock.
McCulloch (1981).
The minimum wage increases inflationary pressure.
Adams (1987), Brozen (1966), Gramlich (1976), Grossman (1983).
The minimum wage increases teenage crime rates.
Hashimoto (1987), Phillips (1981).
The minimum wage encourages employers to hire illegal aliens.
Beranek (1982).
Few workers are permanently stuck at the minimum wage.
Brozen (1969), Smith and Vavrichek (1992).
The minimum wage has had a massive impact on unemployment in Puerto Rico.
Freeman and Freeman (1991), Rottenberg (1981b).
The minimum wage has reduced employment in foreign countries.
Canada: Forrest (1982); Chile: Corbo (1981); Costa Rica: Gregory (1981); France: Rosa (1981).
Characteristics of minimum wage workers
Employment Policies Institute (1994), Haugen and Mellor (1990), Kniesner (1981), Mellor (1987), Mellor and Haugen (1986), Smith and Vavrichek (1987), Van Giezen (1994).
[/quote]
I’m sure you noticed the words “Talking Points” at the top of the page.
Most (all?) have nothing to say about how raising the minimum wage effects the overall economy or overall employment. (Did ya notice?) and none will refute what I’ve already posted.
Again the end result of liberal policies in the 90’s were what?
Next time dig past the first page of results on google.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Who pays most of the taxes in this country? You know who, and you want to punish them for success. So, success is followed by punishment? That seems rooted in a perverse kind of death-wish. Is that what liberalism is?
[/quote]
There the conservatives go again, saying that the democrats are for higher taxes just because we want reform. Good government requires we spend money wisely, not on wars.
[quote]Skystud wrote:
No, thunderbolt. Why do YOU have a problem with raising the minimum wage. Don’t give me a bunch of bullshit studies by a bunch of bean counting but munchers.
I want to know why YOU have a problem with it. I myself would like everyone to be happy. But everytime someone talks about bringing it up, everybody acts like it’s a problem while at the same time never questioning why Top management gets a raise all the time. Paaaaalleeessse, This answer you gave me is horseshit.You can do a lot better than this.[/quote]
I guess you were not just playing dumb in the other thread.
[quote]100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m sure you noticed the words “Talking Points” at the top of the page.
Most (all?) have nothing to say about how raising the minimum wage effects the overall economy or overall employment. (Did ya notice?) and none will refute what I’ve already posted.
Again the end result of liberal policies in the 90’s were what?
Next time dig past the first page of results on google.[/quote]
Are you kidding me? Some of those studies relate to the poor in general. Not only in general, but the studies even break down into specifics. That was about 50 years of research demonstrating the various negative effects of the minimum wage.
Wow, that’s a strong case of denial you got there. Keep towing that party line. It’ more important than, you know, the vast majority of proffesionals in economic field.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Skystud wrote:
It’s time for government to do what it is supposed to do. To do for the people that which the people can’t do for themselves.
And this demonstrates what’s wrong with you. I don’t want my government playing nursemaid. You want to be charitable? Pawn the computer you’re typing at and give away the profit. Stop trying to dictate by force, and threat of violence, your idea of charity.[/quote]
Good. It IS amazing how libs have no trouble or qualms about using pure, brute force to enact their agenda. They claim to want to help all the downtrodden of the earth…through threats of violence and confiscation. It never occurs to them that the productive citizens might resent that, and that they want to achieve a peaceful and happy society at the point of a gun.
BTW: Wait’ll you discuss your ideas with Wreckless. He’s quite a trip.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
The minimum wage reduces employment.
Currie and Fallick (1993), Gallasch (1975), Gardner (1981), Peterson (1957), Peterson and Stewart (1969).
The minimum wage reduces employment more among teenagers than adults.
Adie (1973); Brown, Gilroy and Kohen (1981a, 1981b); Fleisher (1981); Hammermesh (1982); Meyer and Wise (1981, 1983a); Minimum Wage Study Commission (1981); Neumark and Wascher (1992); Ragan (1977); Vandenbrink (1987); Welch (1974, 1978); Welch and Cunningham (1978).
The minimum wage reduces employment most among black teenage males.
The minimum wage has long-term effects on skills and lifetime earnings.
Brozen (1969), Feldstein (1973).
The minimum wage leads employers to cut back on fringe benefits.
McKenzie (1980), Wessels (1980).
The minimum wage encourages employers to install labor-saving devices.
Trapani and Moroney (1981).
).
The minimum wage increases the number of people on welfare.
Brandon (1995), Leffler (1978).
The minimum wage hurts the poor generally.
Stigler (1946).
The minimum wage does little to reduce poverty.
Bonilla (1992), Brown (1988), Johnson and Browning (1983), Kohen and Gilroy (1981), Parsons (1980), Smith and Vavrichek (1987).
[/quote]
That (and for all the others you listed) is why minimum wage laws were invented. Libs, who claim to not trust the government, believe that politicians actually created the Welfare State to help people!! LOL!
These guys are POLITICIANS and the libs trust 'em…unbelievable!!!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
100meters wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Brad61 wrote:
“We believe in the marketplace,” Pelosi said of Democrats, then drew a contrast with Republicans. “They have only rewarded wealth, not work.”
You want your job, your home, good schools, law and order, and so forth. Yet you want to punish those who make all those things possible.
Have you ever heard of cause-and-effect?
No wonder our educational system is being destroyed. It creates people who think like you, who are much easier to rule. Stupids are always easier to rule than intelligent beings. Create people who see no difference between America and people living in jungle huts (Don’t judge other cultures!!)
Create people who think that jobs appear by magic, that wealth producers don’t mind sharing what they sweated for, with those who produce nothing. There’s no causality — nothing has causes!!
Libs…I just gotta shake my head in absolute wonder…
Did wealth producers make tons of money in the 90’s?
Did taxes increase?
Did wages increase?
Did revenues increase?
Did poverty go down?
cause and effect -bitch.
Please.
SHUT.
UP.
Nope, not so long as you and your insane crowd want to rule this country.
You do realize that lower taxes actually create(d) more revenue?
Who pays most of the taxes in this country? You know who, and you want to punish them for success. So, success is followed by punishment? That seems rooted in a perverse kind of death-wish. Is that what liberalism is?
[/quote]
If we lower taxes, revenue increases?
The, if taxes were reduced to nothing, then revenue would be infinite?
No. That would be stupid.
Like this whole “when taxes lower, revenue increases” bullshit that your hero Hannity pushes like old lasies down steps, but has ben refuted innumerable times.
Actually, tax revenues are way up. It’s the reason the Budget deficit is close to half, of what it was projected to be. The tax revenues aren’t a problem. In fact, they’re damn good. Now if we could only cut some of these wealth distribution programs…