My Very, Very High Testosterone

Pharma TRT
1

Hello everyone,

I’ve been reading this forum for quite a while and learned so much!
I’ve never posted before since my situation had nothing special compared to other people. but that changed today.

Quick background:
27 years old
6’2", 215 lbs
Fairly lean, workout regularly (Texas method)
Regular work schedule
Had low libido for about 5 years. Started having 0 libido and ED at beginning of 2013.

In September 2013 my endocrinologist started me with:
100 mg Test enthanate injected once weekly
500 iu HCG 3x per week
No AI was prescribed.

Initially he suggested to treat me with T only. I asked him if HCG could be mixed in. He had already prescribed it before and was willing to let me try. He didn’t see the benefit of HCG though. When I asked about aromatase control he said we’d have to wait for my next blood test results and that he’d do something if needed.

Having read the protocol for injections on this site, I decided to inject:
30 mg T EOD (so 105 mg/week)
350 iu EOD.

I have been on this protocol since early October.

Blood test drawn July 2013 (before starting T)

Total T 409 ng/dl (350-900)
Bio T 101 ng/dl (140-570)
E2 20 pg/ml (<47)
SHBG 51 nmol/L (14-54)
FSH 2 UI/l (1-20)
LH 2.3 UI/l (1-10)
Prolactin 3.2 ng/ml (2-18)
APS 0.469 ng/ml (<4)

Blood test drawn Nov 2013 (2-3 months after starting T)

Total T 2627 ng/dl (350-900)
Bio T 1331 ng/dl (140-570)
E2 107 pg/ml (<47)
SHBG 65 nmol/L (14-54)
FSH <0.1 UI/l (1-20)
LH <0.1 UI/l (1-20)
APS 0.536 ng/ml (<4)

You read that right. WTF?

The first 2-3 weeks I felt incredible. Libido came back with a revenge. ED was gone. Energy and lifts went up. No more waking up during the night to pee. Better mood.

After that things sort of levelled off. Libido was still good but not as intense.

Side effects after 2.5 month of TRT:
Back to square one on libido and ED
Very tender left nipple and a soft tissue mass is growing behind it (gyno)
Gained 20 lbs of lean body mass
Water retention

I saw my endo today and we discussed my test results. He told me to lower my T to 60 mg/week and keep the HCG the same. He wasn’t concerned at all with my other E2 related symptoms (gyno, libido, ED). I asked if an AI would be appropriate. He said that the lower T should take care of it and an AI would be useless anyway. I will be seeing him again in late March (with a blood test early March)…

I don’t want to wait 3 months before addressing this unwanted mass growing on my pec. So…

Today I ordered Liquid Letro. I plan on using it to tame the moob and possibly control my E2 after. I will use the protocol described in the gyno sticky.

I’m really at a loss because this T dose seems to be around the sweet spot for a lot of guys out there.

What could possibly cause me to have 3x the upper limit?
Does anyone have any insight on this?
What should my T dose be?

Thanks so much for reading this!
Atn

EDIT
-age: 27
-height: 6’2"
-waist: 32
-weight: 215
-describe body and facial hair: Very sparse facial hair. I have maybe 10 hairs on my chest.
-describe where you carry fat and how changed: Mainly on thighs
-health conditions, symptoms [history]: See above
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever: None
-lab results with ranges: See above
-describe diet: Been paleo for 2 years. Started intermittent fasting 1 year ago.
-describe training: Texas method with lower volume on Mondays
-testes ache, ever, with a fever?: No
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: They came back with the T treatment.

2

Your LH/FSH were low and T was moderate. But why? Should check prolactin as a possible cause of HPTA repression. Should be looking for a cause, low T is the symptom, not the disease.

Read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys – good tribal knowledge that you need
    — consider causes of low T
  • protocol for injections
  • thyroid basics
    — eval your body temperatures and iodine intake history from iodized salt or vitamins

No need for hCG greater than 250iu EOD.

Why T so high:

  • hCG dose too high
  • last injection hit a vein and labs soon after

Endo’s can be the worst …

Do you have more labs to report? So far, your case has T tunnel vision.

3

Hello KSMan,

Thanks for dropping by.
I have read those stickies and found them most useful.

I understand (to a certain extent) how hypogonadism works. I decided to start the T treatment as the situation with my girlfriend (I’ve been with her since 2007) couldn’t be tolerated anymore. No doctor could help me. The healthcare system in my province is overloaded. I started talking to my MD about my libido, mood, and depression symptoms since 2011. All she could tell me was that my lab results were fine. She finally sent me to a urologist (he was a total tool) and finally this endo which by the way is the only one in the province treating hypogonadism.

I did follow my morning temp for a while in September.
The results were:
96.6
97.1
96.2
96.6
96.8
96.8
96.6
96.8
96.8
96.6
96.8
97.5
96.4
AVG=96.6

From what I understand a “normal” value would be 98.6. So I’d be too low. I take about 2-4 drops per day of Lugol’s solution (2.5% I think) and I don’t have iodized salt at home. My multivit does have some insignificant amount though.

Here’s some more lab results that I decided not to include in my initial post:

TSH 1.37 mU/L (0.3-4.2)
Total cholesterol 4.9 mmol/l (3.5-4.9)
Triglycerides 0.6 mmol/l (0.4-2.3)
HDL 1.7 mmol/l (<2)
LDL 2.4 mmol/l (<4)
Vit D 133 nmol/l (75-150)
Na 138 mmol/l (135-145)
K 4.2 mmol/l (3.5-5)
Cl 99 mmol/l (98-110)
Creatinin 115 umol/l (98-110) I was taking creatine at the time
Albumin 91 g/l (35-52)
DFGe >60 (>=60)
Progesterone 0.7 nmol/l (0.86-2.89)
DHEAS 0.7 umol/l (3.65-10.25)

Concerning the higher HCG dose, I had read one of posts that stated that the recommended 250iu was based on a 150lbs guy. The dose for my weight was approximately 333iu. Hence the 350iu. I have read studies where men were injected with 5000iu E3D and their levels were high, but not 3x the upper limit! I don’t see how 350iu can cause this.

Just for fun (the engineer in me wants to calculate random stuff):

Amount of blood volume for my weight and height = 6.07 litres = 60.7 decilitres
Amount of T En injected the day before the blood test = 30 mg * 55% = 16.5x10^6 ng

If that dose hits a vein and somehow stays in circulation for 24 hours =
16.5*10^6 ng / 60.7 dl = 271829 ng/dl

(I’m not sure that even makes sense.)

Has anyone reached levels of 2500-3000 ng/dl?
What does it feel like?
Excluding the mood/libido depressing effects of estrogen I just feel like my usual self.

Aside from hitting a vein I simply don’t see how my levels would be that high. If my “true” levels are not truly high does it make sense to reduce my dose? I guess everyone will be different, but is there a relationship/ratio between E2 and T?

Thanks
Atn

4

I dealt with some similar E2 sides including gyno with T levels at the higher end of the normal spectrum. My endo prescribed Raloxifene and it worked very well at reducing the appearance and size of the lump. Remember that when gyno is forming it is imperative that you combat the situation asap and before it becomes fibrous. If you search Raloxifene you will find my previous post. Temporarily reducing your HCG and Test while trying to figure out your labs will only benefit you and your situation.

5

Hello Hook24

Thanks for the insight. I’ll make sure to read your thread.

Atn

6

Try to get body temperatures normalized!

7

There have been bodybuilders that have had total t levels in the 20,000 ng/dl range!

8

Hgc will raise your lvls. My doc who knows his sht says hgc only day after inject. So 2 injects then 2 hcg injects. 233- 250 iu.
Hgc will increase you lvls for up to 14 days. So if you draw within the 14 days and you did you test yor lvls will be high.
Letro might work for the mass lots of ppl say it does. But it might not . If they are sensitive and a lump is forming your. Estrogen is high
I would Cut the hgc to the day after use letro until the sensitivity went away or the lump drops. Then switch over to anastrozol .5 mg 3days a week. Letrozol may cause ed problems so i would not stay on it long.