My Rant On T-Nation

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1

Does anyone else think the power and wealth currently held by corporations has become rather extreme? I mean 51 of the world’s largest economies are corporations. These are institutions who are accountable to rich stockholders instead of to the world’s populations and the enviroment.

Politicians voted in through elections influence our lives less than the ceo’s of multinational corporations whose responsibility is to raise profits rather than contribute good to the world. It is illegal for a ceo to change a corporation’s habits in favour of the enviroment or it’s employees if profits are affected and shareholders experience a loss.

This fact guarantees that corporations will continue to destroy nature and act discordant to humanity. When the natural resources which sustain our economy are diminished and we realize how fucked we all are, we only have to turn to the greed-maggot corporations to see who is at fault for destroying the planet and with it any hope of a utopian society.

2

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
Does anyone else think the power and wealth currently held by corporations has become rather extreme? I mean 51 of the world’s largest economies are corporations. These are institutions who are accountable to rich stockholders instead of to the world’s populations and the enviroment.

Politicians voted in through elections influence our lives less than the ceo’s of multinational corporations whose responsibility is to raise profits rather than contribute good to the world. It is illegal for a ceo to change a corporation’s habits in favour of the enviroment or it’s employees if profits are affected and shareholders experience a loss.

This fact guarantees that corporations will continue to destroy nature and act discordant to humanity. When the natural resources which sustain our economy are diminished and we realize how fucked we all are, we only have to turn to the greed-maggot corporations to see who is at fault for destroying the planet and with it any hope of a utopian society.[/quote]

LOL

3

The classical answer to your problem is that you can choose between several powerful entities which require your co-operation, the companies, or one powerful entity, the government, that acts by using or threatening with violence.

The lesser evil clearly are several benelovent masters instead of only one that has an intrinsically violent nature.

If a government however has become so large and influential in economic affairs that corporations are forced to buy their way into politics you get fucked from both ends, and by no means in a good way.

4

Ahhh socialism.

5

[quote]orion wrote:
The classical answer to your problem is that you can choose between several powerful entities which require your co-operation, the companies, or one powerful entity, the government, that acts by using or threatening with violence.

The lesser evil clearly are several benelovent masters instead of only one that has an intrinsically violent nature.

If a government however has become so large and influential in economic affairs that corporations are forced to buy their way into politics you get fucked from both ends, and by no means in a good way.[/quote]

Proper fucked?

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve never understood how one can have such fear of corproations and, at the same time, implicit trust in government. Both are human institutions generally run by the most self-serving and ambitious among us; both polute; both exploit. Except one, for the most part, must earn our support, while the other, demands it with the threat of violence. I truely wonder how different the face of corporate America would look if corporations were forced to operate under true market conditions, without the aid of governemnt afforded them by excessive political influence. And why do corporations strive for such influence in the world of politics?–because government has such an influence in the world of economics.

p.s. I take it the Austrian School is still alive and well in Austria?

6

Waaa booo hooo the big bad corporations have all the money and are going to abuse us.

LMAO

7

[quote]orion wrote:
The classical answer to your problem is that you can choose between several powerful entities which require your co-operation, the companies, or one powerful entity, the government, that acts by using or threatening with violence.

The lesser evil clearly are several benelovent masters instead of only one that has an intrinsically violent nature.

If a government however has become so large and influential in economic affairs that corporations are forced to buy their way into politics you get fucked from both ends, and by no means in a good way.[/quote]

So anarchy is the solution?

8

Paul:

No offense, but life we live here in the US wouldn’t kick hardly as much ass as it does if it wasn’t for large corporations.

You know the phrase “money talks, bullshit walks”? Well, that’s not ever going to change ever. Ever.

Having powerful companies complicit with powerful government in a yin/yang relationship of washing the other’s back is a good thing. It means that I drive on awesome roads, have excellent utility service, have a cellphone that works all over the damn place, get computers that rock, ubiquitous stores that sell high quality food at easily affordable prices, can send a package to almost anywhere in the world in a matter of days, can communicate with people all over the world over the internet or phone, etc., the list we could make here would clog up the T-Nation servers.

Do not despair at the wonders of corporate power… revel in it. What happened to the USSR? Do you remember? They couldn’t buy friggin’ toilet paper over there, man! Have you ever had the same problem here?

An idea: instead of gnashing your teeth at the machine, learn how it works and understand it. Use the way that the world operates to your advantage. If corporations get all the breaks, then invest in one or become one.

If the environment is such a concern for you, use your power (that would be your money and your vote) to support companies that DO care for their environmental impact (they are out there), and do what you can with your vote to support politicians who actually have pro-environmental policies and aren’t just paying lip service to get elected.

Just a thought. :slight_smile:

9

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Paul:

No offense, but life we live here in the US wouldn’t kick hardly as much ass as it does if it wasn’t for large corporations.

You know the phrase “money talks, bullshit walks”? Well, that’s not ever going to change ever. Ever.

Having powerful companies complicit with powerful government in a yin/yang relationship of washing the other’s back is a good thing. It means that I drive on awesome roads, have excellent utility service, have a cellphone that works all over the damn place, get computers that rock, ubiquitous stores that sell high quality food at easily affordable prices, can send a package to almost anywhere in the world in a matter of days, can communicate with people all over the world over the internet or phone, etc., the list we could make here would clog up the T-Nation servers.

Some of the most well known corporations are synonomous with evil to people around the globe.

Shell in Nigeria and Coca Cola in India have fucked over millions of people in search of higher profits.
Companies like Philip Morris and Mcdonalds benefit from degrading the health of people worldwide. Everyone knows but has decided to ignore how evil Nike is. General motors and IBM made products for the Nazis which made it easier to kill jews.

Corporations are merely institutions who leech off natural resources and labour. Most of the profits are pocketed by an elite few while the earth is raped and people are forced to work shit jobs with no futures. Why should a guy working at Wal-Mart make minimum wage while the fucks at the top get tens of billions. WTF?

10

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
Corporations are merely institutions who leech off natural resources and labour. [/quote]

Hmmm… no.

A large corporation is an effective lens which brings the efforts of many many people together and focuses them to achieve company goals.

Usually the goal is to make money and grow the business.

This is not evil, my friend, this is the meaning of life. The very purpose we have as individuals is to grow and learn and become powerful, and a corporation is no different. When a corporation provides a good business value of some kind to society, then it usually becomes successful, and will grow.

I repeat: if you have a problem with the way a corporation is run in some way, then use your power to support something else. If this means buying Reeboks instead of Nikes, then so be it. If it means voting for a politician who runs on a “Buy American Made” platform, then so be it.

The more people understand this simple concept, the easier it is to affect real change. Help the good guys, don’t help the bad guys. Simple. You know that saying “Hate the game, not the player?” Exactly backwards. The game is never going away, but the players will. You have the power to change them.

11

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
Why should a guy working at Wal-Mart make minimum wage while the fucks at the top get tens of billions. WTF?
[/quote]

And maybe you will let me address this point above?

Those “fucks” got to the top because they demonstrated an aptitude for doing their jobs, which is managing affairs at the highest levels of the business operation. In keeping with my analogy as a corporation being similar to a person, these are the brain cells. Now if we take a muscle cell and stick it in the brain, does it accomplish anything? Is this a good idea? Of course not.

The really cool thing about America is that there is a way to take that muscle cell and turn it back into a stem cell, which has the ability to change into any cell type. What this means is that the guy making minimum wage at Wal-mart has the power, if he has the motivation and the latent potential, to get out of his crummy dead-end job and go back to school, or get vocationally trained somehow to make a better life for himself. He doesn’t have to be just a muscle cell!

Now our all-important job as liberals is to safeguard this sacred process of “power-upping” (if you will), and maintain the fairness and the goodness that is equal opportunity for all. It is the very essence of what we stand for to make sure that EVERYONE has a fair chance to get to be a brain cell. That means doing what we can to eliminate discrimination in the workplace, and even more importantly, making sure that everyone has fair access to a quality education.

Realize that most folks won’t get out there and fulfill the apex of their potential; they will tend to find a comfort zone and cruise control through most of their careers, and this is normal and natural. Our job is to see to it that they have a choice to become more if they wish it.

12

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:

So anarchy is the solution?
[/quote]

In a way yes, since most human interactions are anarchic anyway and seem to work just fine without government intervention.

I have no problems whatsoever with goverment regulating emmissions though, the place to dump your toxic emmissions is definitely not the air I am forced to breathe, meaning nobody else should pay the price fo your product but your customers if you can find any.

I cannot share Lothario1132s excitement about powerful government in cahoots with powerful business though, the most extreme form of that is called Fascism and has earned its less than stellar reputation.

So my idea would be minarchism. Enough government to ensure individual freedom, not enough to endanger it.

This also means though that you don`t get to use the power of the governmet to coerce people into your idea of utopia.

13

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:

p.s. I take it the Austrian School is still alive and well in Austria?

[/quote]

Does no matter…

According to HSpider we are doomed because governments don`t like us (I wonder why that is…) and according to Marmadogg nothing matters unless it is in the head of an American voter.

14

[quote]orion wrote:
I cannot share Lothario1132s excitement about powerful government in cahoots with powerful business though, the most extreme form of that is called Fascism and has earned its less than stellar reputation.[/quote]

I guess our definitions of fascism are different. A powerful capitalism-driven economy and a powerful government to work with it and somewhat keep it in check (regulation) is pretty much the best thing anybody has come up with yet in terms of getting shit done.

America gets shit done… period.

Remember always that our corporations are at the mercy of the consumer’s will, and our government is just as captive to the voter’s will. The folks who forget this are the ones who feel helpless and unempowered; and I see them throwing around terms like “fascist” and “evil” for the very things which made us great in the first place.

If modern American life sucks so much, why are people jumping on floating doors and shit and hiking over fences to get here?

I’m sorry, dude… but we kick ass. :slight_smile:

15

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
Does anyone else think the power and wealth currently held by corporations has become rather extreme? I mean 51 of the world’s largest economies are corporations. These are institutions who are accountable to rich stockholders instead of to the world’s populations and the enviroment.

Politicians voted in through elections influence our lives less than the ceo’s of multinational corporations whose responsibility is to raise profits rather than contribute good to the world. It is illegal for a ceo to change a corporation’s habits in favour of the enviroment or it’s employees if profits are affected and shareholders experience a loss.

This fact guarantees that corporations will continue to destroy nature and act discordant to humanity. When the natural resources which sustain our economy are diminished and we realize how fucked we all are, we only have to turn to the greed-maggot corporations to see who is at fault for destroying the planet and with it any hope of a utopian society.[/quote]

As bizzare as this sounds, it is true. A corp. is required by law to place the interests of it’s owners above all competing interests. It is legally bound to put it’s bottom line over everything else. Even the public good!

They rarely buck-up to their own externalities - unless forced to - and then leave the public to bare the cost.

A corporation is an externalizing machine! Since a corporation is protected under the 14th amendment and has rights like a person, what type of person would a corporation be? If you analized it like a person you’d likely find someone resembling a pyschopath.

Corporations routinely exhibit callous concern for individuals.

They exploit workers with poor working conditions.

They use sweatshops.

Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.

Reckless disregard for the safety of others.

Harm to human health(toxic waste, pollution, synthetic chemicals…etc.)

They obey the law IF it is cost-effective.

They know about the effects of what they are doing but they repeatedly lie and con others for profit!

16

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
So anarchy is the solution?
[/quote]
No, tree-hugger. The solution is property rights in the free market.

Quick quiz:
Why do companies shit on the environment?

Answer:
Because they have no incentive to take care of it.

And why not? Because most “natural resources” are publically-owned. In other words, they’re maintained by the government, rather than private individuals or companies.

The solution to pollution is obvious: Privatize public lands. If you want to save the forests, then shut down the government conservation agencies and sell the land. The corporation that pays for it will protect it’s investment.

Ding ding ding, statist, the free market strikes again.
I really wish we had more genuine lefties on this board. I have tried to pull a few from TheForum.com, but, like most people, they are highly reluctant to leave their comfort zones.

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
I truely wonder how different the face of corporate America would look if corporations were forced to operate under true market conditions, without the aid of governemnt afforded them by excessive political influence. And why do corporations strive for such influence in the world of politics?–because government has such an influence in the world of economics.

p.s. I take it the Austrian School is still alive and well in Austria?[/quote]

Although you are not new to the site, I don’t believe I have seen you before. As another person who has some conception of how the world works, I would like to extend to you my greetings.

17

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
The solution to pollution is obvious: Privatize public lands. If you want to save the forests, then shut down the government conservation agencies and sell the land. The corporation that pays for it will protect it’s investment.[/quote]

Just a quick question here: What kind of corporation will maintain a natural preserve, making basically zero money in the process, whilst ignoring the obvious advantages of developing the land that they rightfully own?

That doesn’t sound like good business to me, man.

18

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

The solution to pollution is obvious: Privatize public lands. If you want to save the forests, then shut down the government conservation agencies and sell the land. The corporation that pays for it will protect it’s investment.[/quote]

It’s hard to believe that people this retarded can master the ability to post here. I tip my hat to you 'Prospect, now put your mittens back on and go stack some blocks.

19

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
The solution to pollution is obvious: Privatize public lands. If you want to save the forests, then shut down the government conservation agencies and sell the land. The corporation that pays for it will protect it’s investment.

Just a quick question here: What kind of corporation will maintain a natural preserve, making basically zero money in the process, whilst ignoring the obvious advantages of developing the land that they rightfully own?

That doesn’t sound like good business to me, man.[/quote]

It is not.

20

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
Does anyone else think the power and wealth currently held by corporations has become rather extreme? I mean 51 of the world’s largest economies are corporations. These are institutions who are accountable to rich stockholders instead of to the world’s populations and the enviroment.

Politicians voted in through elections influence our lives less than the ceo’s of multinational corporations whose responsibility is to raise profits rather than contribute good to the world. It is illegal for a ceo to change a corporation’s habits in favour of the enviroment or it’s employees if profits are affected and shareholders experience a loss.

This fact guarantees that corporations will continue to destroy nature and act discordant to humanity. When the natural resources which sustain our economy are diminished and we realize how fucked we all are, we only have to turn to the greed-maggot corporations to see who is at fault for destroying the planet and with it any hope of a utopian society.[/quote]

OK…ALEC.