So you can drink alcohol, misbehave and everything and if you’re in a free enough are they look the other way. If you say “I renounce Islam” it’s fatwa time?
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Last I heard, you didn’t need to officially renounce Islam to be considered an apostate.
That’s what I’m saying, if you go to some bars or clubs around here on the weekend you will find plenty of “Muslims” drinking heavily, looking for someone to fuck for the night, and some of them getting into fights. You could find some eating pork if you look hard enough. But as long as they don’t officially renounce Islam then they are still accepted as Muslims? I’m not too sure about that.
apostasy
apos·ta·sy | \ ə-ˈpäs-tə-sē \
plural apostasies
Definition of apostasy
1 : an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection
If they refuse to follow the rules of their religion then by definition they are apostates.
No, @loppar is right. They’re still considered muslims by society.
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You can’t rely on these definitions to understand muslim societies. Perhaps they may be applicable to certain parts of certain muslim countries, but not to the majority.
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Yes, look at Omar Sharif for example. An Arab Christian, he converted to Islam in name only in order to marry a famous Arab actress, never obeyed a single religious rule, and spent his life as a an invenerate gambler, drinker and womanizer yet could never officially leave.
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According to who?
So how about this, from a Muslim Sheikh:
2 – What constitutes apostasy
…
(d)Apostasy by omission, such as not doing any of the rituals of Islam, or turning away from following it altogether.
…
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)
All I was trying to explain here is that if you are going to allow a group of people, such as Muslims in this case, into your country it does not make sense to antagonize them and ridicule their religion because there are some who will respond with violence. You might look at the Koran and decide it means nothing to you, they will look at the right to free speech in the same way. What benefit is there to provoking violence against yourself?
And that proves my point.
For example, you’ve got celebrities in Muslim countries who do the usual celebrity stuff - marriages/breakups/love triangles, do insane amounts of drugs, get shitfaced in public etc. and it all ends in their versions of TMZ without much repercussions except some fake moral outrage from talking heads.
But there’s outrageous behavior that cannot be forgiven - for example, the soccer player in the video received death threats from his fellow Muslims for visiting a children’s hospital. Guess why.
There are plenty of christians who believe in God but they wouldn’t be considered very Christian. Why do people think it’s no different with Muslims?
Chris is really trying to make points in this thread everyone just has no idea what they are.
And I should know I speak for all Muslims, Christians, blacks and whites when I say that.
It’s subject to interpretation, if they did that stuff in Saudi Arabia they would be lucky if they don’t get beheaded. But do the actions and opinions of such people reflect the majority of religious Muslims?
Clearly there are some Islamic fundamentalists who have their priorities mixed up.
What does that even mean? How is it different with Muslims?
Because they kill you for losing your religion in SA, UAE etc… Catholics used to do that too, 500 years ago.
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Dude. Yes. The majority of religious muslims in the ME favor killing apostates because that’s what Muhammed and the Hadiths teach.
Look at some of the other beliefs of non terrorist muslims and see what they want in society.
If you read contemporary accounts of Portuguese voyages in the 16th century to what is today Yemen, Iran and India when they encountered and waged war against Muslim rulers, there is an almost maniacal obsession that captured sailors and soldiers may convert to Islam either voluntarily or under duress. Afonso de Albuquerque personally made a point of straight up killing every Portuguese that converted after being captured.
This was the case for the Protestants as well.
The report you’ve linked to also shows big differences between Muslim countries. The differences would be even more striking had all Gulf theocracies been included.
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The “such people” I was referring to are not the Saudis, rather these:
So the question here is, if you invite a whole bunch of people into your country who believe in Sharia law, does it make any sense to do things like publishing obscene cartoons of their prophet? It sounds suicidal to me.
Interesting that South Asian Muslims are more extreme in their beliefs than those in ME/N. Africa.
Thank god they just cover up and rape kids now.
That’ll be 5 hail Mary’s outta you!
Leaving the religion and not being religious enough are not the same thing.
It isn’t different.
The fact it sounds suicidal is sort of their point.