[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The point I am trying to make is, in the lack of presence of available health care, people instinctively look to make healthier decisions. [/quote]
This point is completely missed by many people.
Nature has bestowed upon man an instinct to survive and an ambition to succeed.
Forcing man to become dependent upon other another man for his survival only kills the instinct in him to survive and the ambition to succeed in those that he is dependent upon. Everyone suffers.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
hahah. because idiots like me make it that way.
Idiots like me make it so that hospitals cant turn away sick people if they don’t have enough money.[/quote]
Government Regulation made it so that it was too expensive to allow sick people to get treatment if they didn’t have money.
[quote]
Idots like me make it so insurance providers have to cover the cost of a persons health care needs.[/quote]
Government regulations (specifically wage freeze) made it so that companies had to provide for insurance, and government regulations made it to expensive to cover every claim. Government regulations made it so that everyone’s premiums had to rise (no discrimination). Government Regulation (AMA) made it so that medical prices increased faster than the wages of the common.
[quote]
Idiots like me…
voted for government regulations that made it worse for the people to be treated.[/quote]
[quote]John S. wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Capped,
Unless you plan on either arresting people for living unhealthy lives (which would also be very blurry as to what that means), or making them financially liable for living unhealthy lives, I find it very hard to mandate people to living healthy. The very definition of “living healthy” is sketchy to say the least. Do I carry too much muscle? Is that considered unhealthy? Is my cardiovascular conditioning not up to a standard of what “healthy living” has been defined as? My bodyfat too high? Resting heart rate too high? Too low?
The freedom to choose the foods you eat, is easily accompanied with the freedom to choose the lifestyle you live. The exception being born with an illness. From my observation, on average, those who show responsibility with what they eat also show responsibility in other areas of their life, including their health and finances. Again, this is my opinion on a large scale, and yes there are exceptions.
From what I saw during my incarceration, guys took VERY good care of themselves, because it was well known that the health care available was total shit. You were better off taking care of yourself on your own, than knowing you had some quack jail/prison doctor to waiting for you. I recall an article here on T-Nation where Poliquin quoted some statistic about prisoners having sub 10% body fat while prison guards resembled something along the lines of 25% body fat. Also, many health indicators such as VO2 Max, muscle mass, heart rate, blood pressure were much healthier among those locked up, and this is in the presence of what I could consider the food to be “stir-fried shit.” The point I am trying to make is, in the lack of presence of available health care, people instinctively look to make healthier decisions. [/quote]
Hey don’t go using your fancy real world knowledge, elitist jackass.[/quote]
Motherfucker stay in your IVORY TOWER, with insurance paying abilities! We don’t want you telling us what to do.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]John S. wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Capped,
Unless you plan on either arresting people for living unhealthy lives (which would also be very blurry as to what that means), or making them financially liable for living unhealthy lives, I find it very hard to mandate people to living healthy. The very definition of “living healthy” is sketchy to say the least. Do I carry too much muscle? Is that considered unhealthy? Is my cardiovascular conditioning not up to a standard of what “healthy living” has been defined as? My bodyfat too high? Resting heart rate too high? Too low?
The freedom to choose the foods you eat, is easily accompanied with the freedom to choose the lifestyle you live. The exception being born with an illness. From my observation, on average, those who show responsibility with what they eat also show responsibility in other areas of their life, including their health and finances. Again, this is my opinion on a large scale, and yes there are exceptions.
From what I saw during my incarceration, guys took VERY good care of themselves, because it was well known that the health care available was total shit. You were better off taking care of yourself on your own, than knowing you had some quack jail/prison doctor to waiting for you. I recall an article here on T-Nation where Poliquin quoted some statistic about prisoners having sub 10% body fat while prison guards resembled something along the lines of 25% body fat. Also, many health indicators such as VO2 Max, muscle mass, heart rate, blood pressure were much healthier among those locked up, and this is in the presence of what I could consider the food to be “stir-fried shit.” The point I am trying to make is, in the lack of presence of available health care, people instinctively look to make healthier decisions. [/quote]
Hey don’t go using your fancy real world knowledge, elitist jackass.[/quote]
Motherfucker stay in your IVORY TOWER, with insurance paying abilities! We don’t want you telling us what to do.[/quote]
I only make 9.25 an hour, Bow to my wealth.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]PatMac wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]PatMac wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Dear President Barry,
Why did you lie to me ? You owe me that much? You stood in front of podiums, shouting about how your insurance will not go up one penny if you like your plan. You told people to get in the faces of those who would spread lies about your health care bill. Well here it is Mr. President. The bomb shell I got in the mail today. I personally want to thank you sir, you owe me $47 per month, or $564 for the year, because of your lie.
This is no longer propaganda, this is not vitriol, rhetoric, or incessant lying. I take cash or Paypal Mr. President. Please pay up soon Mr. President, because interest will accumulate, and I know you’re all about that spending intelligently you keep thumping.
[/quote]
You live a blessed life!
You have health care coverage, you have the money to pay the rate they are now asking you to pay and you have the free time to see yourself as the victim of the POTUS decisions.
Seriously, you don’t know how good you have it. And you’re over 6 feet tall and weigh more than 224lbs? Lord almighty, you poor poor man! [/quote]
I know a lot of poor people who have free time to debate POTUS decisions, and I know of a lot of poor people who are big strong people, usually bigger than most non-poor people.
You don’t really have a strong argument.[/quote]
I know of Christian Priest who rape little boys. Your argument that Christians are good people isn’t really a strong argument.
One non sequitur deserves another.[/quote]
You’re implying that poor people don’t have the time, I know a lot that do. You’re implying that poor people aren’t big compared to Maximus, which more poor people are larger than wealthier people.
That’s different than knowing a Christian Priest and assuming Christians aren’t good. Which I agree, most Christians aren’t good people. We’re dangerous, we eat flesh and blood, drink too much wine, and we’re judgmental! Watch out.[/quote]
You implied the stuff about poor people. I spoke only of MaximusB.
He does have a decent life. He has health care coverage, he has the money to pay the increase and he is tall and big. Honestly, these are pluses. He has it good.
Your first post and me bring up the priest are the same in that they have nothing to do with what I was talking about.
[quote]AdamDrew wrote:
[quote]PatMac wrote:
[quote]dk44 wrote:
[quote]PatMac wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Dear President Barry,
Why did you lie to me ? You owe me that much? You stood in front of podiums, shouting about how your insurance will not go up one penny if you like your plan. You told people to get in the faces of those who would spread lies about your health care bill. Well here it is Mr. President. The bomb shell I got in the mail today. I personally want to thank you sir, you owe me $47 per month, or $564 for the year, because of your lie.
This is no longer propaganda, this is not vitriol, rhetoric, or incessant lying. I take cash or Paypal Mr. President. Please pay up soon Mr. President, because interest will accumulate, and I know you’re all about that spending intelligently you keep thumping.
[/quote]
You live a blessed life!
You have health care coverage, you have the money to pay the rate they are now asking you to pay and you have the free time to see yourself as the victim of the POTUS decisions.
Seriously, you don’t know how good you have it. And you’re over 6 feet tall and weigh more than 224lbs? Lord almighty, you poor poor man! [/quote]
This has to be the dumbest shit I have read on here yet.[/quote]
Thanks for validating my assumption that you don’t proof read your own posts.[/quote]
Apparently neither do you.
“I know of Christian Priest who rape little boys.”
Where did you come from? Welcome! I can tell your are going to be a great source of entertainment.
[/quote]
Sorry Adam, this won’t be entertaining. You just don’t take the care to understand what you are reading.
When you read “non sequitur” you should be expecting one. That’s how it is with cold fusion.
[quote]John S. wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]John S. wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Capped,
Unless you plan on either arresting people for living unhealthy lives (which would also be very blurry as to what that means), or making them financially liable for living unhealthy lives, I find it very hard to mandate people to living healthy. The very definition of “living healthy” is sketchy to say the least. Do I carry too much muscle? Is that considered unhealthy? Is my cardiovascular conditioning not up to a standard of what “healthy living” has been defined as? My bodyfat too high? Resting heart rate too high? Too low?
The freedom to choose the foods you eat, is easily accompanied with the freedom to choose the lifestyle you live. The exception being born with an illness. From my observation, on average, those who show responsibility with what they eat also show responsibility in other areas of their life, including their health and finances. Again, this is my opinion on a large scale, and yes there are exceptions.
From what I saw during my incarceration, guys took VERY good care of themselves, because it was well known that the health care available was total shit. You were better off taking care of yourself on your own, than knowing you had some quack jail/prison doctor to waiting for you. I recall an article here on T-Nation where Poliquin quoted some statistic about prisoners having sub 10% body fat while prison guards resembled something along the lines of 25% body fat. Also, many health indicators such as VO2 Max, muscle mass, heart rate, blood pressure were much healthier among those locked up, and this is in the presence of what I could consider the food to be “stir-fried shit.” The point I am trying to make is, in the lack of presence of available health care, people instinctively look to make healthier decisions. [/quote]
Hey don’t go using your fancy real world knowledge, elitist jackass.[/quote]
Motherfucker stay in your IVORY TOWER, with insurance paying abilities! We don’t want you telling us what to do.[/quote]
I only make 9.25 an hour, Bow to my wealth.[/quote]
8.50 but I don’t pay taxes, so it’s like I make $10/hr.
[quote]PatMac wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]PatMac wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]PatMac wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Dear President Barry,
Why did you lie to me ? You owe me that much? You stood in front of podiums, shouting about how your insurance will not go up one penny if you like your plan. You told people to get in the faces of those who would spread lies about your health care bill. Well here it is Mr. President. The bomb shell I got in the mail today. I personally want to thank you sir, you owe me $47 per month, or $564 for the year, because of your lie.
This is no longer propaganda, this is not vitriol, rhetoric, or incessant lying. I take cash or Paypal Mr. President. Please pay up soon Mr. President, because interest will accumulate, and I know you’re all about that spending intelligently you keep thumping.
[/quote]
You live a blessed life!
You have health care coverage, you have the money to pay the rate they are now asking you to pay and you have the free time to see yourself as the victim of the POTUS decisions.
Seriously, you don’t know how good you have it. And you’re over 6 feet tall and weigh more than 224lbs? Lord almighty, you poor poor man! [/quote]
I know a lot of poor people who have free time to debate POTUS decisions, and I know of a lot of poor people who are big strong people, usually bigger than most non-poor people.
You don’t really have a strong argument.[/quote]
I know of Christian Priest who rape little boys. Your argument that Christians are good people isn’t really a strong argument.
One non sequitur deserves another.[/quote]
You’re implying that poor people don’t have the time, I know a lot that do. You’re implying that poor people aren’t big compared to Maximus, which more poor people are larger than wealthier people.
That’s different than knowing a Christian Priest and assuming Christians aren’t good. Which I agree, most Christians aren’t good people. We’re dangerous, we eat flesh and blood, drink too much wine, and we’re judgmental! Watch out.[/quote]
You implied the stuff about poor people. I spoke only of MaximusB.[/quote]
I spoke of poor people, you talk of Maximus as if the things he did were because he was wealthy, that means that poor people don’t have those luxuries.
You also said he had free time to talk about POTUS, and be tall and big. Just like a lot of poor people have those under their belt.
[quote]
Your first post and me bring up the priest are the same in that they have nothing to do with what I was talking about.[/quote]
They have nothing in common, except maybe a lot of poor people are Catholic.
You pointed out three things Max has that poor people supposedly don’t. His time, his money, and his size. Yes, maybe Maximus has the money, or maybe he’ll have to work extra to make up for the increase. However, the other two have no basis as I know more poor people that have extra time than wealthier people and have more size than wealthier people.
Brother Chris:
I spoke of poor people, you talk of Maximus as if the things he did were because he was wealthy, that means that poor people don’t have those luxuries.
No I didn’t. I didn’t say anything about poor people. I said he had the coverage and the money to pay the extra - for which he was billing Obama.
You also said he had free time to talk about POTUS, and be tall and big. Just like a lot of poor people have those under their belt.
I did the first line, because they are true. You are saying the second line, because you want to.
Most on here can think and speak freely with out fear of death or perescution and without having to spend all of our time working. It’s a privilege to be honest. As would be being tall for someone who is 5’9".
They have nothing in common, except maybe a lot of poor people are Catholic.
And neither statement had anything to do with what I said initially. You got a feeling about what I was saying and you spoke-up.
You pointed out three things Max has that poor people supposedly don’t. His time, his money, and his size. Yes, maybe Maximus has the money, or maybe he’ll have to work extra to make up for the increase. However, the other two have no basis as I know more poor people that have extra time than wealthier people and have more size than wealthier people.
Again, you are talking about poor people. You must see what you keep being this back to poor people right?
Do you need to talk about something?
[quote]dk44 wrote:
[quote]PatMac wrote:
Thanks for validating my assumption that you don’t proof read your own posts.[/quote]
Man I don’t know what the hell you are talking about.[/quote]
That should be expected, you are a goat right?
No need to apologize. I can understand why it comes off that way. No, dude has good life even with paying more for insurance coverage (admittedly for questionable reasons), I’m just trying to point that out. Enough money to get health insurance, time to think, the ability to access and use the Internet, etc…
What does my height and “being big” have to do with having a good life or me being lucky?
What does a religion have to do with this?
What does my financial situation have to do with this?
In my original post on this thread, I made no mention of my religious position, financial position, I did make a reference to my size to give those who would read the thread a background of where I am physically.
The point I was trying to make, was that in THE REAL WORLD (something many people here miss.)
To all of you future beard scratching cubicle hamsters, I offer you this (attention Ryan P McCarter and Fighting Irish)…sometimes your utopian projection when you create an idea is basically a walking breathing bowel movement. Many of the projections, numbers, and figures used when creating social entitlement programs are over-ambitious TO SAY THE LEAST. And there is no planned mechanism to deal with times of low revenue. What do you think will happen when there is no strategy to deal with such situations. I will tell you, it’s called FUCKING FAILURE. It’s simple math, not Pelosi math.
My rate went up, for NO reason specified, which is code for “we need to pay for ObamaCare, so we need to ass-rape the wallets of healthy people.” The president shouted to the heavens that if you like your plan, you can keep it. Well, as these increases continue, there is a point where I will just say fuck, come arrest me. I am tempted to send my letter to the media, see if they pick up on it.
[quote]PatMac wrote:
[quote]dk44 wrote:
[quote]PatMac wrote:
Thanks for validating my assumption that you don’t proof read your own posts.[/quote]
Man I don’t know what the hell you are talking about.[/quote]
That should be expected, you are a goat right?
No need to apologize. I can understand why it comes off that way. No, dude has good life even with paying more for insurance coverage (admittedly for questionable reasons), I’m just trying to point that out. Enough money to get health insurance, time to think, the ability to access and use the Internet, etc…
[/quote]
Right, I have a good life, because according to you, “I am big.” Sounds like you have Napoleon Syndrome like a mother fucker.
There is nothing in question, ObamaCare needs to be funded.
Time to think? Access the internet? Fucking with my money, is like fucking with my emotions.
[quote]orion wrote:
Id say 3,4 and 6 are wrong
[/quote]
How so? What statements would you make to replace them?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Capped,
Unless you plan on either arresting people for living unhealthy lives (which would also be very blurry as to what that means), or making them financially liable for living unhealthy lives, I find it very hard to mandate people to living healthy. The very definition of “living healthy” is sketchy to say the least. Do I carry too much muscle? Is that considered unhealthy? Is my cardiovascular conditioning not up to a standard of what “healthy living” has been defined as? My bodyfat too high? Resting heart rate too high? Too low?
The freedom to choose the foods you eat, is easily accompanied with the freedom to choose the lifestyle you live. The exception being born with an illness. From my observation, on average, those who show responsibility with what they eat also show responsibility in other areas of their life, including their health and finances. Again, this is my opinion on a large scale, and yes there are exceptions.
From what I saw during my incarceration, guys took VERY good care of themselves, because it was well known that the health care available was total shit. You were better off taking care of yourself on your own, than knowing you had some quack jail/prison doctor to waiting for you. I recall an article here on T-Nation where Poliquin quoted some statistic about prisoners having sub 10% body fat while prison guards resembled something along the lines of 25% body fat. Also, many health indicators such as VO2 Max, muscle mass, heart rate, blood pressure were much healthier among those locked up, and this is in the presence of what I could consider the food to be “stir-fried shit.” The point I am trying to make is, in the lack of presence of available health care, people instinctively look to make healthier decisions. [/quote]
I’m not talking about “forcing” people to live healthy lives. I’m talking about not making it so incredibly easy to be unhealthy (such as having chocolate bars in damn near every building you go into, for example). Make it attractive for places to offer healthy food options that aren’t “half a pound of lettuce and one cherry tomato”. Raise food standards. Incentivize gym membership or activity club membership. Stop with the “its ok to be fat!” bullshit.
None of these things “force” anyone to do anything (except forcing businesses to adhere to higher food standards). People are still “free” to go get that candy bar, only now they have to actually go to the store to get it instead of walk down the hall and hit the vending machine. If you stop making obesity cheap and convenient, less people will be obese.
Also, I think you’re drawing a bad conclusion from your prison observation. Guys in prison aren’t in good shape because the health care is bad. Guys in prison are in good shape because they constantly need to be able to defend themselves from physical assault.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Id say 3,4 and 6 are wrong
[/quote]
How so? What statements would you make to replace them?[/quote]
If you subsidize stupidity you will get more of it. Also, if they have watched the first person in their family die horribly from a completely preventabel disease, exercising and financial responsibility will take on a whole new meaning.
Of course they will if you let them. Anyhow, the cost of emergency room care is not the problem.
The rising costs due to poor lifestyle choices do not need to be distributed, much in the same way that your car insurance wont pay if you total it while driving drunk.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Capped,
Unless you plan on either arresting people for living unhealthy lives (which would also be very blurry as to what that means), or making them financially liable for living unhealthy lives, I find it very hard to mandate people to living healthy. The very definition of “living healthy” is sketchy to say the least. Do I carry too much muscle? Is that considered unhealthy? Is my cardiovascular conditioning not up to a standard of what “healthy living” has been defined as? My bodyfat too high? Resting heart rate too high? Too low?
The freedom to choose the foods you eat, is easily accompanied with the freedom to choose the lifestyle you live. The exception being born with an illness. From my observation, on average, those who show responsibility with what they eat also show responsibility in other areas of their life, including their health and finances. Again, this is my opinion on a large scale, and yes there are exceptions.
From what I saw during my incarceration, guys took VERY good care of themselves, because it was well known that the health care available was total shit. You were better off taking care of yourself on your own, than knowing you had some quack jail/prison doctor to waiting for you. I recall an article here on T-Nation where Poliquin quoted some statistic about prisoners having sub 10% body fat while prison guards resembled something along the lines of 25% body fat. Also, many health indicators such as VO2 Max, muscle mass, heart rate, blood pressure were much healthier among those locked up, and this is in the presence of what I could consider the food to be “stir-fried shit.” The point I am trying to make is, in the lack of presence of available health care, people instinctively look to make healthier decisions. [/quote]
I’m not talking about “forcing” people to live healthy lives. I’m talking about not making it so incredibly easy to be unhealthy (such as having chocolate bars in damn near every building you go into, for example). Make it attractive for places to offer healthy food options that aren’t “half a pound of lettuce and one cherry tomato”. Raise food standards. Incentivize gym membership or activity club membership. Stop with the “its ok to be fat!” bullshit.
None of these things “force” anyone to do anything (except forcing businesses to adhere to higher food standards). People are still “free” to go get that candy bar, only now they have to actually go to the store to get it instead of walk down the hall and hit the vending machine. If you stop making obesity cheap and convenient, less people will be obese.
Also, I think you’re drawing a bad conclusion from your prison observation. Guys in prison aren’t in good shape because the health care is bad. Guys in prison are in good shape because they constantly need to be able to defend themselves from physical assault.
[/quote]
Addiction to shit food, is like any other addiction, and could be the hardest one to control too. Because while you don’t HAVE to drink or do drugs, you DO need to still eat. Not to mention that you don’t even have to get out of your car now to get shit food, and you can use a credit card too.
You also have physiological impulses which make it hard. Ever crave steak when you get stressed? I doubt it. Why? Your elevating cortisol can be counteracted by insulin, which is secreted in the presence of glucose. Ever hear of people raping cookies, pizza, ice cream, when they get stressed? I hear what you are saying, but what you are talking about it someone truly dedicated, and that is truly rare these days.
I didn’t say the costs ‘need to be’ distributed or ‘should’ be distributed, just that they ‘will’ be distributed.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Addiction to shit food, is like any other addiction, and could be the hardest one to control too. Because while you don’t HAVE to drink or do drugs, you DO need to still eat. Not to mention that you don’t even have to get out of your car now to get shit food, and you can use a credit card too.
You also have physiological impulses which make it hard. Ever crave steak when you get stressed? I doubt it. Why? Your elevating cortisol can be counteracted by insulin, which is secreted in the presence of glucose. Ever hear of people raping cookies, pizza, ice cream, when they get stressed? I hear what you are saying, but what you are talking about it someone truly dedicated, and that is truly rare these days. [/quote]
Right, but that addiction is made worse by the ubiquitousness and ease of shit food. Maybe if you had to get out of the car, and wait 15-20 minutes, and pay more than 3 dollars for that food at mcdonalds… maybe more people would say “fuck this, I’ll just go home and cook food”.
Shit food is right up there with cigarettes… yet cigarette vending machines are hard to find and smoking is not permitted in most places. Cigarettes are also heavily taxed. Strangely, I dont hear people scream about how people have the “freedom” to smoke and its a violation of their rights… but if I say shit food should be taxed, there’s a big problem there.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I didn’t say the costs ‘need to be’ distributed or ‘should’ be distributed, just that they ‘will’ be distributed.
[/quote]
As long as people stand for it.
If ice cream cost 10 dollars a pint, what would happen? People would probably still buy it, but they would treat it as an occasional delicacy rather than something it’s “normal” to have a bowl of every night.
Isn’t making crap food cheap subsidizing bad food choices?