My HC Insurance Went Up

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

PatMac,

You’re right, you’re absolutely right. I should just shut up and take it. Don’t make ANY noise about it, just shut up and pay. After all, I am now paying an extra $500 for NOTHING (nothing for me at least). Just to help average out some pool of people.

I would have more appreciation if you addressed my situation with something like…

“Wow Maximus, that’s really unfortunate, but I would appreciate it if you would act like a good little bitch and just pay the increase. It’s patriotic, it’s American, and it’s good for the people. I know I know, this really has nothing to do with you. After all, you’ve been an athlete all your life, you eat very well and take good care of yourself. But it’s just not American if you don’t help out your neighbor with his health costs, even if he is a fat slob. Let’s face it, 2/3 of Americans are obese, so we need your help. No, we don’t need you to give a pep talk, or show someone how to eat or train, we need that wallet. Yes Max, the best way to help is to just shut up and pay. After all, we (the American Government) know what’s best for you, look at our impressive tax and spend policy, why wouldn’t you want to give us your money? Keep up the good work with staying out of the doctor’s office, and keep paying, but don’t raise your voice about it. We don’t want you making too much noise over there, keep it down, shhhh.”

22

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Many things in America are designed to make people fat.

Fat people have health problems, which causes insurance costs to go up.

We should find ways to change those things in America that are designed to make people fat, so they have less health problems and health care costs go down.

hint: Screaming “personal responsibility! personal responsibility! its not my problem they should take personal responsibility! put down the doritos, fatty!” is not going to change anything.[/quote]

I like to think of it as Darwinism, or Social Evolution, the fatties die off, keeping the most responsible alive to spread their seed and message.

23

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Many things in America are designed to make people fat.

Fat people have health problems, which causes insurance costs to go up.

We should find ways to change those things in America that are designed to make people fat, so they have less health problems and health care costs go down.

hint: Screaming “personal responsibility! personal responsibility! its not my problem they should take personal responsibility! put down the doritos, fatty!” is not going to change anything.[/quote]

I like to think of it as Darwinism, or Social Evolution, the fatties die off, keeping the most responsible alive to spread their seed and message. [/quote]

lol. So flawed.

Seriously, though, if people pay insurance and have health problems, the insurance company has to cover the costs. and they’ll make it up by charging you more.

I’m just saying we need to drop the “go ahead get as fat as you want its not my problem” mentality.

24

Insurance should cover risk. More risk means higher premiums. The problem with a national system is everyone is covered in the same risk pool and thus risk cannot be calculated. This is why socialized medicine has to fail.

25

[quote]tedro wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]biglifter wrote:
I’m more disturbed by that line about inactivity and obesity being one reason why YOUR HC cost is going up. Let me get this straight… You got nailed with a rate increase because someone, somewhere can’t put down the Doritos? You can’t control your age or what other people do, yet somehow you are financially responsible for these factors. [/quote]

This is how health insurance works, even before Obama. You share the cost of those who are also insured. Those who require a lot of medical treatments benefit more, those who do not, well, do not.

One thing that cracked me up in the debates about health care was that it was going to be socialized…it already was socialized (to an extent) within the different health insurance corporations.

If you want to just pay for only your own health care, do not have insurance.[/quote]

This is only true for group policies, which is one of the many reasons why I dislike them. The premise of buying insurance is to transfer risk. You are not paying for health care, per se, but are paying the insurance company to take on the risk of you accumulating high health care costs. In the most basic insurance policy through a mutual company, this is all you are paying for. Go through a non-mutual company and you’re going to have a profit margin built in. Go through some group policy and unless you happen to be the ‘expected’ policyholder, you are either subsidizing or being subsidized.

So, a more accurate statement would be if you want to just pay for your own health care, buy an individual policy from a reputable mutual company.[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification.

26

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Many things in America are designed to make people fat.

Fat people have health problems, which causes insurance costs to go up.

We should find ways to change those things in America that are designed to make people fat, so they have less health problems and health care costs go down.

hint: Screaming “personal responsibility! personal responsibility! its not my problem they should take personal responsibility! put down the doritos, fatty!” is not going to change anything.[/quote]

yes but if they have to pay for their health care and can’t, they will suffer and die, death or suffering is a pretty good motivator.

no longer having someone to fall on.

27

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Many things in America are designed to make people fat.

Fat people have health problems, which causes insurance costs to go up.

We should find ways to change those things in America that are designed to make people fat, so they have less health problems and health care costs go down.

hint: Screaming “personal responsibility! personal responsibility! its not my problem they should take personal responsibility! put down the doritos, fatty!” is not going to change anything.[/quote]

I like to think of it as Darwinism, or Social Evolution, the fatties die off, keeping the most responsible alive to spread their seed and message. [/quote]

lol. So flawed.

Seriously, though, if people pay insurance and have health problems, the insurance company has to cover the costs. and they’ll make it up by charging you more.

I’m just saying we need to drop the “go ahead get as fat as you want its not my problem” mentality.[/quote]

it is only our problem because idiots like you make it that way. you belive you have the right to force everyone elses problems on the responsible ones, or that you have the right to tell those being irresponsible what they can and can’t do.

People like are robbing our rights every day.

let them be accountable, let them die if that is how they want to live their life. don’t force me to be accountable for their choices.

this goes for debt, income, health care, mortgages, corporations, banks everything. If you fail you fail, it is not the governments responsibility or right to take this from others because the one failing is more important than who they are taking it from.

28

[quote]PatMac wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]PatMac wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Dear President Barry,

Why did you lie to me ? You owe me that much? You stood in front of podiums, shouting about how your insurance will not go up one penny if you like your plan. You told people to get in the faces of those who would spread lies about your health care bill. Well here it is Mr. President. The bomb shell I got in the mail today. I personally want to thank you sir, you owe me $47 per month, or $564 for the year, because of your lie.

This is no longer propaganda, this is not vitriol, rhetoric, or incessant lying. I take cash or Paypal Mr. President. Please pay up soon Mr. President, because interest will accumulate, and I know you’re all about that spending intelligently you keep thumping.

[/quote]

You live a blessed life!

You have health care coverage, you have the money to pay the rate they are now asking you to pay and you have the free time to see yourself as the victim of the POTUS decisions.

Seriously, you don’t know how good you have it. And you’re over 6 feet tall and weigh more than 224lbs? Lord almighty, you poor poor man! [/quote]

I know a lot of poor people who have free time to debate POTUS decisions, and I know of a lot of poor people who are big strong people, usually bigger than most non-poor people.

You don’t really have a strong argument.[/quote]

I know of Christian Priest who rape little boys. Your argument that Christians are good people isn’t really a strong argument.

One non sequitur deserves another.[/quote]

You’re implying that poor people don’t have the time, I know a lot that do. You’re implying that poor people aren’t big compared to Maximus, which more poor people are larger than wealthier people.

That’s different than knowing a Christian Priest and assuming Christians aren’t good. Which I agree, most Christians aren’t good people. We’re dangerous, we eat flesh and blood, drink too much wine, and we’re judgmental! Watch out.

29

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Many things in America are designed to make people fat.

Fat people have health problems, which causes insurance costs to go up.

We should find ways to change those things in America that are designed to make people fat, so they have less health problems and health care costs go down.

hint: Screaming “personal responsibility! personal responsibility! its not my problem they should take personal responsibility! put down the doritos, fatty!” is not going to change anything.[/quote]

I like to think of it as Darwinism, or Social Evolution, the fatties die off, keeping the most responsible alive to spread their seed and message. [/quote]

lol. So flawed.

Seriously, though, if people pay insurance and have health problems, the insurance company has to cover the costs. and they’ll make it up by charging you more.

I’m just saying we need to drop the “go ahead get as fat as you want its not my problem” mentality.[/quote]

it is only our problem because idiots like you make it that way. you belive you have the right to force everyone elses problems on the responsible ones, or that you have the right to tell those being irresponsible what they can and can’t do.

People like are robbing our rights every day.

let them be accountable, let them die if that is how they want to live their life. don’t force me to be accountable for their choices.

this goes for debt, income, health care, mortgages, corporations, banks everything. If you fail you fail, it is not the governments responsibility or right to take this from others because the one failing is more important than who they are taking it from.

[/quote]

hahah. because idiots like me make it that way.

Idiots like me make it so that hospitals cant turn away sick people if they don’t have enough money.

Idots like me make it so insurance providers have to cover the cost of a persons health care needs.

Idiots like me…

know what, its not “idiots like me” at all.

but, since you want to call names, you’re just a stupid jackass who thinks its fine to let old people with no incomes die in the street because they cant pay thousands a month for the medications they need. Asshole.

30

[quote]PatMac wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]PatMac wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Dear President Barry,

Why did you lie to me ? You owe me that much? You stood in front of podiums, shouting about how your insurance will not go up one penny if you like your plan. You told people to get in the faces of those who would spread lies about your health care bill. Well here it is Mr. President. The bomb shell I got in the mail today. I personally want to thank you sir, you owe me $47 per month, or $564 for the year, because of your lie.

This is no longer propaganda, this is not vitriol, rhetoric, or incessant lying. I take cash or Paypal Mr. President. Please pay up soon Mr. President, because interest will accumulate, and I know you’re all about that spending intelligently you keep thumping.

[/quote]

You live a blessed life!

You have health care coverage, you have the money to pay the rate they are now asking you to pay and you have the free time to see yourself as the victim of the POTUS decisions.

Seriously, you don’t know how good you have it. And you’re over 6 feet tall and weigh more than 224lbs? Lord almighty, you poor poor man! [/quote]

This has to be the dumbest shit I have read on here yet.[/quote]

Thanks for validating my assumption that you don’t proof read your own posts.[/quote]

Apparently neither do you.
“I know of Christian Priest who rape little boys.”

Where did you come from? Welcome! I can tell your are going to be a great source of entertainment.

Who said the repubs didn’t offer any solutions and simply boasted about the current system? Wrong. Their proposed ideas were small in comparison to overhauling the entire system so the media and population overlooked them. Off the top of my head, some were:

  1. Open state lines to increase competition.
  2. Cap malpractice lawsuite to keep frivolous claims at bay.
  3. Let large organizations and families buy group insurance taking only their characteristics into account rather than grouping them in with everyone else.
  4. Let the states propose their own potential solutions instead of the federal government getting involved. Constitution 101 right there! The national government’s powers are few and far between.

I refuse to call it healthCARE insurance. Care is the last thing insurance companies want you to get. I simply call it health insurance.

OP, you’re right! More increases are coming.

31

I’m simply willing to accept a few facts about reality. Feel free to tell me how wrong I am about these, guys.

  1. In a society where many things exist that are designed to make people unhealthy, people will be unhealthy.

  2. Most people will not make large efforts in maintaining their health.

  3. “Pulling the rug out” will not result in more responsibility. Telling everyone “if you get sick and cant pay for it, tough shit” will not result in less sickness, or people taking better care of their health.

  4. Hospitals will never turn people away, for legal and moral reasons, because that person cannot afford to pay them.

  5. health insurance providers will always have to cover the health costs of those they insure.

  6. Those rising costs, to the insurance providers and hospitals, will eventually be distributed among others.

So, my conclusion is we should make efforts to fix the actual problem, which I mentioned in 1… those things that exist that are designed to make people unhealthy.

32

Id say 3,4 and 6 are wrong

33

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I’m simply willing to accept a few facts about reality. Feel free to tell me how wrong I am about these, guys.

  1. In a society where many things exist that are designed to make people unhealthy, people will be unhealthy.

  2. Most people will not make large efforts in maintaining their health.

  3. “Pulling the rug out” will not result in more responsibility. Telling everyone “if you get sick and cant pay for it, tough shit” will not result in less sickness, or people taking better care of their health.

  4. Hospitals will never turn people away, for legal and moral reasons, because that person cannot afford to pay them.

  5. health insurance providers will always have to cover the health costs of those they insure.

  6. Those rising costs, to the insurance providers and hospitals, will eventually be distributed among others.

So, my conclusion is we should make efforts to fix the actual problem, which I mentioned in 1… those things that exist that are designed to make people unhealthy.[/quote]

Or let people live their own lives, laissez-faire. So how do you stop people from being unhealth? What if I went to my fridge right now and ate everything, even if it is considered healthy? Are you going to send people to monitor my fridge?

What if you make everything healthy but still people over eat? What then? Should we send them to camps so they can concentrate on eating better, maybe do some labor to help shed the pounds for the collective?

What if Bodybuilding is considered unhealth? What if Powerlifting is? What if Football is? What if mountian climbing is? What if running is? What if all that is unhealthy and so is being stationary. I can find medical claims against all the things I listed as being unhealth for either the heart or the joints.

Isn’t it fun we we dive into the details about how things that sound great really are a bunch of nonsense.

34

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I’m simply willing to accept a few facts about reality. Feel free to tell me how wrong I am about these, guys.

  1. In a society where many things exist that are designed to make people unhealthy, people will be unhealthy.

  2. Most people will not make large efforts in maintaining their health.

  3. “Pulling the rug out” will not result in more responsibility. Telling everyone “if you get sick and cant pay for it, tough shit” will not result in less sickness, or people taking better care of their health.

  4. Hospitals will never turn people away, for legal and moral reasons, because that person cannot afford to pay them.

  5. health insurance providers will always have to cover the health costs of those they insure.

  6. Those rising costs, to the insurance providers and hospitals, will eventually be distributed among others.

So, my conclusion is we should make efforts to fix the actual problem, which I mentioned in 1… those things that exist that are designed to make people unhealthy.[/quote]

Without a safety net people must either maintain their own health, rely on the charity of others, or suffer due to their own bad choices. This is the way civilization has evolved since time immemorial – why do we expect now that government can change it?

Why should the healthy and hardworking be forced to take care of those who are not healthy and hardworking?

How can enabling bad behavior lead to good behavior?

What am I missing?

35

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I’m simply willing to accept a few facts about reality. Feel free to tell me how wrong I am about these, guys.

  1. In a society where many things exist that are designed to make people unhealthy, people will be unhealthy.

  2. Most people will not make large efforts in maintaining their health.

  3. “Pulling the rug out” will not result in more responsibility. Telling everyone “if you get sick and cant pay for it, tough shit” will not result in less sickness, or people taking better care of their health.

  4. Hospitals will never turn people away, for legal and moral reasons, because that person cannot afford to pay them.

  5. health insurance providers will always have to cover the health costs of those they insure.

  6. Those rising costs, to the insurance providers and hospitals, will eventually be distributed among others.

So, my conclusion is we should make efforts to fix the actual problem, which I mentioned in 1… those things that exist that are designed to make people unhealthy.[/quote]

Without a safety net people must either maintain their own health, rely on the charity of others, or suffer due to their own bad choices. This is the way civilization has evolved since time immemorial – why do we expect now that government can change it?

Why should the healthy and hardworking be forced to take care of those who are not healthy and hardworking?

How can enabling bad behavior lead to good behavior?

What am I missing?[/quote]

Didn’t you know, subsiding things lead to more of the act untill it comes to human’s. Then subsidising leads to less. Hasn’t welfare shown you this, well that was a bad example since it did the exact oposite and led to more. But I am sure somewhere someone can find proof. Just give it more time.

36

Capped,

Unless you plan on either arresting people for living unhealthy lives (which would also be very blurry as to what that means), or making them financially liable for living unhealthy lives, I find it very hard to mandate people to living healthy. The very definition of “living healthy” is sketchy to say the least. Do I carry too much muscle? Is that considered unhealthy? Is my cardiovascular conditioning not up to a standard of what “healthy living” has been defined as? My bodyfat too high? Resting heart rate too high? Too low?

The freedom to choose the foods you eat, is easily accompanied with the freedom to choose the lifestyle you live. The exception being born with an illness. From my observation, on average, those who show responsibility with what they eat also show responsibility in other areas of their life, including their health and finances. Again, this is my opinion on a large scale, and yes there are exceptions.

From what I saw during my incarceration, guys took VERY good care of themselves, because it was well known that the health care available was total shit. You were better off taking care of yourself on your own, than knowing you had some quack jail/prison doctor to waiting for you. I recall an article here on T-Nation where Poliquin quoted some statistic about prisoners having sub 10% body fat while prison guards resembled something along the lines of 25% body fat. Also, many health indicators such as VO2 Max, muscle mass, heart rate, blood pressure were much healthier among those locked up, and this is in the presence of what I could consider the food to be “stir-fried shit.” The point I am trying to make is, in the lack of presence of available health care, people instinctively look to make healthier decisions.

37

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Capped,

Unless you plan on either arresting people for living unhealthy lives (which would also be very blurry as to what that means), or making them financially liable for living unhealthy lives, I find it very hard to mandate people to living healthy. The very definition of “living healthy” is sketchy to say the least. Do I carry too much muscle? Is that considered unhealthy? Is my cardiovascular conditioning not up to a standard of what “healthy living” has been defined as? My bodyfat too high? Resting heart rate too high? Too low?

The freedom to choose the foods you eat, is easily accompanied with the freedom to choose the lifestyle you live. The exception being born with an illness. From my observation, on average, those who show responsibility with what they eat also show responsibility in other areas of their life, including their health and finances. Again, this is my opinion on a large scale, and yes there are exceptions.

From what I saw during my incarceration, guys took VERY good care of themselves, because it was well known that the health care available was total shit. You were better off taking care of yourself on your own, than knowing you had some quack jail/prison doctor to waiting for you. I recall an article here on T-Nation where Poliquin quoted some statistic about prisoners having sub 10% body fat while prison guards resembled something along the lines of 25% body fat. Also, many health indicators such as VO2 Max, muscle mass, heart rate, blood pressure were much healthier among those locked up, and this is in the presence of what I could consider the food to be “stir-fried shit.” The point I am trying to make is, in the lack of presence of available health care, people instinctively look to make healthier decisions. [/quote]

Hey don’t go using your fancy real world knowledge, elitist jackass.

38

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Capped,

Unless you plan on either arresting people for living unhealthy lives (which would also be very blurry as to what that means), or making them financially liable for living unhealthy lives, I find it very hard to mandate people to living healthy. The very definition of “living healthy” is sketchy to say the least. Do I carry too much muscle? Is that considered unhealthy? Is my cardiovascular conditioning not up to a standard of what “healthy living” has been defined as? My bodyfat too high? Resting heart rate too high? Too low?

The freedom to choose the foods you eat, is easily accompanied with the freedom to choose the lifestyle you live. The exception being born with an illness. From my observation, on average, those who show responsibility with what they eat also show responsibility in other areas of their life, including their health and finances. Again, this is my opinion on a large scale, and yes there are exceptions.

From what I saw during my incarceration, guys took VERY good care of themselves, because it was well known that the health care available was total shit. You were better off taking care of yourself on your own, than knowing you had some quack jail/prison doctor to waiting for you. I recall an article here on T-Nation where Poliquin quoted some statistic about prisoners having sub 10% body fat while prison guards resembled something along the lines of 25% body fat. Also, many health indicators such as VO2 Max, muscle mass, heart rate, blood pressure were much healthier among those locked up, and this is in the presence of what I could consider the food to be “stir-fried shit.” The point I am trying to make is, in the lack of presence of available health care, people instinctively look to make healthier decisions. [/quote]

Hey don’t go using your fancy real world knowledge, elitist jackass.[/quote]

Racist !

39

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

hahah. because idiots like me make it that way.

Idiots like me make it so that hospitals cant turn away sick people if they don’t have enough money.

Idots like me make it so insurance providers have to cover the cost of a persons health care needs.

Idiots like me…

know what, its not “idiots like me” at all.

but, since you want to call names, you’re just a stupid jackass who thinks its fine to let old people with no incomes die in the street because they cant pay thousands a month for the medications they need. Asshole.[/quote]

Thanks, doesn’t bug me.

but it is involuntary, and that is violating the rights of the responsible, it is your right to reap what you so.

responsible will take care of others. But we should not be involuntarily forced to pay for others irresponsibility. and if we don’t let others be accountable for their actions, they will never be responsible.

A hospital is a private entity and should be able to turn people away.

health care is not a right, just because there is an ability to do something, does not make it that persons obligation to do so, especially if it creates an unsustainable burden.

And in that fact it makes people who do not recognize it idiots.

There is an old saying" I can’t help you if I can’t help myself"

people die, they don’t live forever and it is absurd that they expect everyone else to sacrifice more than make to keep them alive another month or two.

40

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Yes biglifter, that is how this will work. The healthy will pay for the sick. BTW I am 6’1 and 225 lbs. According to BMI stats I am probably obese, but resemble more of a fullback/linebacker build.[/quote]

Can you sue somebody or business entity? That seems to be the all the rage for 2011.