My Dog Attacked Me

Off Topic
21

[quote]sluicy wrote:
Rhino Jockey wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I have done all the “normal” stuff you would do to correct a dog including jerking him with the pinch collar that was hard enough to lift him off the ground, pinning him to the ground Steve Irwin style, etc. The chow in him gets even more aggressive when physical corrections come about.

Other than that hes obedient, knows lots of commands, listens to them, etc.

Yeah, but in what context? Saying you administer proper corrections is hard to judge if the offense is unknown.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure you love your dog and want to do right by him.

I’ve worked with hundreds of dogs and I do love chows. I know their reputation, but they have such a wonderful sweet side. They and shepherds do require a special attention to their needs. Every dog is unique, which is why I say, I know you haven’t budgeted for a trainer, but if you can find a GOOD one, who will assess your relationship and not just give cookie cutter advice, it is wholly worth it.

And hey, if you don’t have the time and the money to give your dog the training and help what it needs, please don’t put it down without thought, and consideration of the option to give it another home. If you have indeed done all you can, and still have to put him down, that’s that. Do your best. And don’t burden yourself with guilt if you have.
[/quote]

Florida’s not too far from Kentucky.

22

[quote]Rhino Jockey wrote:
He does not usually lie on the couch when I or my girlfriend are home. No kids in the house. Anytime he tries to jump off the couch, he is verbally commanded to “Get Down” which he does 9/10 with no hesitation.

Over the past few months, he has started demonstrating aggression by growling and snapping at my feet on numerous occasions. Whenever I try to verbally correct him, it seems as if he doesn’t care. If I physically correct him, he gets physically aggressive right back.[/quote]

How far do you take it physically, both in hands-on correction and on the leash? And when on a walk, on the leash, does he heel, meaning his head is at your leg and he is waiting for YOU to lead? And, what measures do you take to correct him? I know it sounds and looks extreme, but lifting a dog off his feet (backwards or forwards) with a quick, hard check from a choke chain to keep them walking with you is absolutely not inhumane or harmful, and neither is firmly checking by grasping the skin of the throat with your hands.

Just FYI, "Paw"ing is a dominant move. Any time he puts his paw over you is a sign of dominance. Sure, he’s obeying you, but you’re still enforcing dominance. Sorry, haha. :slight_smile: My dog and I have the paw wars… he puts his on my hand, I put my hand on top, he puts his paw on top… it’s funny, but you have to just make sure you win, like in tug of war and wrestling.

Is he neutered?

[quote]
5. I constantly make him work throughout the day whether its sitting before going outside, eating etc or just giving me his paw before playing fetch. I do not play tug since I read this is not a good game to play with dominant dogs.

Meh, I’m a fan of playing tug of war and wrestling, IF you know your dog, and even if you have a dominant dog, you know how far they’re willing to go. You must ALWAYS win, either by just plain winning, or in tug winning by enforcing the “Drop it” command, or in wrestling getting him on his back and just sticking it out until he relaxes and accepts that you’re sitting on him! :stuck_out_tongue: From what you’ve said, though, this would go bad.

[quote]Maybe you guys see something I don’t. I would much rather have the dog learn his role in my household than to simply take him in.

[/quote] He sounds pretty strong willed for certain. It may likely be something small in your eyes yet great in his that can make the difference. That’s why I’m saying, it doesn’t have to be expensive to see a behaviorist, you just have to do your homework.

Thanks, just trying to help. I’ve put down a dog I loved very much because I did not at the time know how to help him. It really sucked. So, I try to help keep other people and their dogs out of the same situation.

23

[quote]mavrcksurfer69 wrote:
Buy a Boxer… They’re nice, they’ll never attack you or kids, they’re easy to please, and they’re unquestionably loyal[/quote]

Never say never. You’re generalizing. I’ve seen more labs and Boxers be blatantly nasty and outright aggressive than I have the standard stereotyped breeds such as Rottweilers or pit bulls.

They are very popular dogs and as they become more and more bred and inbred they are also becoming much less stable temperamentally.

24

I owned a shepherd/chow rescued dog for 14 years, great dog, but did take some extra work. It was right about 2 or 3 when his temperament changed from ultra social to hyper over protective.

At about 4 years We broke down & got help from a professional trainer. Even with that, he could never be trusted around strangers especially children, but with immediate family he was outstanding. Never once questioned his loyalty or love, but chows are. . . different, & shepherds are supposed to be over protective. Both breeds are alpha oriented & will constantly test you.

Its worth the work man, I still get a little misty thinking about him. I don’t know your dog or you, but I wouldn’t give up on him yet.

25

I would think that would be a quirky mix, both can be great but temperamental dogs.

I had a Chow/Golden retriever mix, great dog but very territorial. I like to think the Retriever side mellowed him out some, but if you came into my yard without permission, watch out. Great with my wife and kids, but he did make me nervous about our kids roughhousing with neighborhood kids. He also tried to establish dominance early on but we quickly quashed that.

Not sure if I missed your answer to Sluicy, but is he fixed?

26

Your dog sounds like a clever dog.

The problem is you are making him do
too many obedience tasks for no reason, only ask
him when you actually want him to do something.

Stop breaking his balls and he will be your best friend.

27

A few years ago a friend of mine had a mixed breed dog they rescued and at about eight years old it started to get aggresive,they have two young boys.They took it to the vet and she told them to put it down.

The reasoning was that some cross breeds have a bad genetic line and they basically start to go nuts and thats where the behavior starts to change.They see it all the time at about the same general age. How old is the dog? And about chows I’ve heard the same thing about,hard to control.

One last point...does it get enough excercise?My old dogs pissy behavior was directly related to how much I ran her.Smart working dogs need something to do.
28

I’ll just throw my .02 in here. If you discipline him and he becomes aggressive, you absolutely must take it to whatever level you need to UNTIL he submits 100% to you, This may mean you laying on top of him pinning him down for up to an hour at a time. I have broken several of my own dogs and several friends dogs who were a little too aggressive.

Playing rough and then start taking it too far is a big one. Dogs need boundries and they will remember them after they are enforced only a couple times. A really difficult dog needs more frequent reinforcing.

Here is a big question, when your dog gets aggressive when you physically correct him, what do you do? Do you back away? Pin him down until he is 100% submissive, Try to hold your ground while talking him down? If you do anything other than plastering his ass to the ground and making him submit to you, then he has just owned you.

He knows you are afraid of him and no matter what other silly commands you make him do, he knows when it’s go time, you will back down. Now why I wouldn’t be afraid of your dog is #1, he is not trying to kill you or seriously hurt you, he hasn’t lost his mind or anything. He is basically asserting his domanance.

If you are lying on the couch and he really wanted to hurt or kill you, he would be breaking skin all over the place with his bites and he might even try going for your neck. This is a good thing though, regardless of his growls and snapping bite attempts, and you may take some bites to the hands and arms, but seriously, if you want this corrected, when he gets aggressive, You grab him by the scruff on his neck, pull him down to the ground hard and mount him.

If you grab him with your right hand, circle a little to his right, this way when you drag him down his head is facing away from you, you then bring your left hand and forearm across his neck and under his chin. You apply pressure down on his head/neck with your forearm and elbow and pull his head back like into your leg with your hand.

You should have a good control on him now and unless he really outweighs you you will be able to keep him pinned down like this with nothing more than your weight. With your right hand once you have the head controlled, you just keep his feet from gaining traction on the ground, keep the off the floor, thats where his power is, and also use that hand to keep him from rolling into you, If he starts to roll into you, just grab one of his legas and push it away from you (push it into his roll).

Now this may sound dangerous and maybe even a little extreme and I have to reiterate, you may get bit, especially when you first grab him. Unless you are really fast, and do it with the intent that there is nothing that will stop your takedown and dominance of this dog. Unless you cat like that, you probably will get bit.

If you have at your disposal, controlled rage, I would definately use it here. Snap on him but only with the intent of completing the disciplinary move I just described. Don’t try to hurt him, don’t kick him in the ribs. If you really love your dog and you are truly not afraid of him and your not afraid to get possibly a little injured, this will break him.

I’m sure if you searched around youtube you could find video of the technique I just described to help illustrate my points.

V

29

get a cat instead

30

Like someone else said? Does he still have his balls? If so, remove them.

He won’t be such a badass with a fraction of his current androgen level.

31

[quote] sluicy wrote:
How far do you take it physically, both in hands-on correction and on the leash? And when on a walk, on the leash, does he heel, meaning his head is at your leg and he is waiting for YOU to lead? And, what measures do you take to correct him? I know it sounds and looks extreme, but lifting a dog off his feet (backwards or forwards) with a quick, hard check from a choke chain to keep them walking with you is absolutely not inhumane or harmful, and neither is firmly checking by grasping the skin of the throat with your hands. [/quote]

The first major bout of aggression towards me was one morning when I was sleeping. I heard him growling and he snapped at my face. I immediately got up, put his pincher collar on and gave him a very hard jerk up and back. He yelped for a split second and then instantly turned crazy by snarling, snapping and trying to jump on me. I pinned him to the ground so he couldn’t move by lying on top of him and then I put a muzzle on him. He didnt bite me this time, but he scratched me up pretty good.

[quote] sluicy wrote:
Is he neutered? [/quote]
Yes.

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
One last point…does it get enough exercise? My old dogs pissy behavior was directly related to how much I ran her.Smart working dogs need something to do.[/quote]

I take him out everyday several times but nothing that overtires him like running. I will give that a shot and see if it helps, thanks for the suggestion.

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Here is a big question, when your dog gets aggressive when you physically correct him, what do you do? Do you back away?[/quote]

I have done everything from pinning him down to the ground using my bodyweight to keep him there, jerking him back with a pinch collar, muzzzle, etc.

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Now this may sound dangerous and maybe even a little extreme and I have to reiterate, you may get bit, especially when you first grab him. Unless you are really fast, and do it with the intent that there is nothing that will stop your take down and dominance of this dog. Unless you cat like that, you probably will get bit. If you have at your disposal, controlled rage, I would definitely use it here. Snap on him but only with the intent of completing the disciplinary move I just described. Don’t try to hurt him, don’t kick him in the ribs. If you really love your dog and you are truly not afraid of him and your not afraid to get possibly a little injured, this will break him.[/quote]

I have tried the pinning move several times similar to what Steve Irwin used to do with crocs. He settles down after that but you never know when he is going to get testy again.

I don’t have any kids and he is never outside without a leash/collar on. I don’t let strangers pet my dog.
He seriously acts Bi-Polar. He will be happy and non-aggressive, no growling for a month and then have an episode like last night where he just seems to come out of nowhere.

I really want to work with this dog instead of taking the easy way out and just bringing him into the pound. Other than the few times hes showed aggression, he is an awesome dog. I’m looking for some more ways to establish dominance.

Sluicy, you seemed to bring up an interesting fact that Pawing is a dominant trait. Could you give me some examples of other behaviors that are dominant that I may not notice so I can start correcting these?

And once again, he is two years old. Everyone keeps asking his age over and over…READ!

32

I never neutered my dogs, but I did show them who’s boss since they about 6 months. Maintain your role as the dominant male. You can find out right away by looking the dog in the eyes. If he doesn’t instantly look away, he either thinks can challenge you or that he’s dominant.

If he growls at you don’t saw “No” or “bad” give him a little jab (not punch) in the ribs with your finger tips. The key is to stop the behavior before it happens, they usually give pretty clear signs like tensing up, staring at you from the corner of their eyes, the tail will drop and their posture will change, or their ears will come forward, that’s when you correct the behavior.

Edit? he’s already neutered

33

Keep the prong on him ALL THE TIME. I had to do this with my dog when I got him. He was 1.5 and intact when we got him (neutered shortly after we got him) and he was still pretty headstrong.

We kept the leash on him in the house and every slightest form of agression toward me or my wife was met with a swift and strong prong collar. Repetition and consistancy is what it takes. Another option is a remote trainer. Then you can correct him even if he isn’t withing grabbing distance. You can dial the remote trainer low power to high power depending how much drive he is in at the moment.

The old newpaper on the nose works as well.

34

Dogs live in the present, by the time you go and get the collar, put it on, and punished him, He didn’t nkow why he was being punished. He probably thought he was being attacked.

In the dogs mind, he growled, you got the collar and leash (he may have seen this as a reward, like going outside to play, which intern may have reinforced the behavior), then you put it on and he probably got a little excited, then you punished him, and he though why am I being punished I thought we were going outside and fought back. Even a 5 second lag between behavior and correction is too long for it to be effective.

35

Call him a little bitch. The emotional angst this will cause him will ensure he acts with respect for a long time to come.

36

Sluicy has a ton of great advice.

I’ve lived with and trained Coonhounds, Collies, Boxers, Labradors, and I currently have a Siberian Husky… If it were my dad you were asking he’d have told you “Beat that pot-licker till he can’t move, then beat him some more.” But I never agreed with that.

Here are my thoughts.

  1. The physical pinning and jerking around you do with him only exaserbates the problem of him trying to dominate. Shepards and Chows alike are physical breeds who thrive on contact and your Steve Irwin style of pinning him only offers him competition, not a display that you are the boss.

  2. For whatever reason he’s determined that either A, He’s the boss. or B, He’s unsure that YOU’RE the boss and it has him making a play for domination. Something has either happened or you haven’t showed the right kind of dominance for him to get the point. It’s not the be-all end-all, but adjustments need to be made.

  3. For people who feel that dogs are dogs with no real difference, I believe they are wrong. They’ve been bred for different reasons, accentuating traits and diminishing others. Neither breed that your dog has is just meant to be a companion. Chows are territorial/protective, and Shepards need a job. As it stands right now it seems that he feels the couch is his territory, and that he’s currently unemployed. He should be given a zone that is specifically his (not your couch), and he needs something to do. I’m not saying you need to train him to smell drugs or chase down criminals or find dead bodies in rubble, but there has to be something you can have him do. Engage his brain and his physicality to the point of exhaustion. Make him do things like jump up on benches, heel, sit, continue, pick up the pace to a jog, bring it back down to a walk, heel, lay down, all of that sort of stuff. Keep him thinking and keep him moving during times that you’re outside. You don’t have to reward him after every task either. Overt affection shouldn’t happen during these drills until you’re all done. Petting or treats should represent the conclusion of the session.

  4. I don’t agree with pinch collars as a mode of correction. Body language that displays you’re bigger, stronger, yet more in control of your emotions as him will change his attitude. It’s a hard thing to do initially, but you have to not react to him with the same kind of energy he’s giving you. You have to be calm but assertive and NEVER get on the floor with him. Get up, stand over him, use stern voice but don’t scream at him and be persistent to the point where HIS body language changes from leaning forward and antagonistic to one where he’s leaned away from you, ears are back, etc.

I think this issue can be solved, I really do. But it’s going to take patience and calm and a lot of time with him. This is a key point in his life. Think of him as an 18-22 year old dude, has all the attributes of an adult but is still a dumbass looking for his place in life. Your role is to educate him that he isn’t the boss of the house.

Good luck Rhino

37

[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
Dogs live in the present, by the time you go and get the collar, put it on, and punished him, He didn’t nkow why he was being punished. He probably thought he was being attacked.

In the dogs mind, he growled, you got the collar and leash (he may have seen this as a reward, like going outside to play, which intern may have reinforced the behavior), then you put it on and he probably got a little excited, then you punished him, and he though why am I being punished I thought we were going outside and fought back. Even a 5 second lag between behavior and correction is too long for it to be effective.[/quote]

Good Point.

38

[quote]Rhino Jockey wrote:

The first major bout of aggression towards me was one morning when I was sleeping. I heard him growling and he snapped at my face. I immediately got up, put his pincher collar on and gave him a very hard jerk up and back. He yelped for a split second and then instantly turned crazy by snarling, snapping and trying to jump on me. I pinned him to the ground so he couldn’t move by lying on top of him and then I put a muzzle on him. He didnt bite me this time, but he scratched me up pretty good.
[/quote]

Your dog probably didn’t associate the pincher collar with his growling since you had to take the time to put it on him. Your reaction has to be immediate so that he understands why you are doing it. Your action should also be strong enough to one-up the dog.

Sluicy and Vegita are giving excellent advice. You should take an obedience class where you participate. The class will teach you techniques to show your dominance and ways to tell when your dog is responding to these techniques. It isn’t enough to just apply one of these techniques unless you hold him until he truely submits. You have to remember that every interaction with your dog is a competition. In your dogs eye you either win or lose. You have to make it a point to win every interaction until he understands that you are the master. In the animal kingdom you are either the leader or the follower.

bpeck

39

That totally sucks bro, kudos to you for trying to figure it out.

I was going to ask if he still had his balls, but you already answered that one. I would suggest taking him to the vet just to cover your bases, maybe he has something going on your not aware of.

If all is normal, try to just wear that fucker out with exercise. If that doesn’t work, call Cesar Milan, lol. Good luck

40

As different and broader advice:

Not already mentioned (or it was in a post I missed) is the fact that a few animals simply have mental problems that will not go away and cannot be trained out.

I’ve only had one animal like that: a cat, given to me at about age 6 months, that had been badly treated by the family that owned her.

Fortunately her problem wasn’t severe. But she could just, for utterly no cause other than her demons (so to speak) – regardless of anyone saying there is always a cause that you can control – go from being perfectly fine to a growling and hissing state. From absolutely nowhere. Including just lying in the sun, happy, and suddenly doing this.

I’ve known of other cases. And it shouldn’t be surprising that just as some people have some crazy behaviors that cannot be trained or educated out, some animals do.

Hopefully that is not the case, but it’s not impossible IMO.

Secondly, if all else fails, you could try learning from the considerable information that is out there on handling and keeping wild animals. It can be safely done when you know what you are doing, and can be safe for others – neighbors, children, etc with the proper precautions.

For that matter, not quite the same thing, one of my birds is more than able to bite a finger or nose clean off – has no problems ripping chunks out of a thick beam of wood – and being in fact only one generation removed from the wild and thus genetically wild, requires considerable specific, non-intuitive methods of handling and avoiding problems. For example, regardless that she by no means wants to hurt me, she might readily do so from what is called displacement biting and I must always take appropriate care regarding this. (Doesn’t mean she doesn’t get to sit on my shoulder and even preen my eyes, as she likes to do and I can trust her in.)

Most certainly try the specific dog-handling advice you’ve been given above and seek out more knowledge as well.

But worst case, if the dog just has a mental problem that causes him to be an unsafe house pet, that does not mean he has to be put to death, if you are willing to go to the trouble associated with working with animals that are inherently problematic, such as wild animals.