True, it was extremist Muslims living in Iraq with the support of the Iraqi people who are bothering others. Not only bothering but killing other Iraqis. The Iraqi people and government allowed extremist Muslims to live and grow in their country. As such, they are to blame.
If you live or hang out long enough with criminals, sooner or later you are going to jail along with them.
So if the Iraqi’s had taken care of their own backyard we would not need to do it for them.
But the real truth is that the majority of Muslims quietly support the extremists. If they didn’t they would have taken care of this problem long ago. We all know they just give lip-service to peace because all they know is oppressing others through violence. If fact, they would not know what to do if they actually achieved peace in Iraq.
In civilized countries criminals are not allowed to vote. As such, the votes of Muslim extremists do not count.
The Arabs in Iraq are responsible for their own problems. We’ve led the proverbial horse to water. It’s not our fault the horse chooses to drown itself rather than drink.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
But the real truth is that the majority of Muslims quietly support the extremists. If they didn’t they would have taken care of this problem long ago. We all know they just give lip-service to peace because all they know is oppressing others through violence. If fact, they would not know what to do if they actually achieved peace in Iraq.[/quote]
Do you have a source for any of this - it’s fine if it is your opinion, I’m just hoping that you can source it.
[quote]905Patrick wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
But the real truth is that the majority of Muslims quietly support the extremists. If they didn’t they would have taken care of this problem long ago. We all know they just give lip-service to peace because all they know is oppressing others through violence. If fact, they would not know what to do if they actually achieved peace in Iraq.
Do you have a source for any of this - it’s fine if it is your opinion, I’m just hoping that you can source it.
Thanks in advance.[/quote]
How many Muslims in Iraq, any Muslim country, or the US for that matter have publicly come out condemning the actions of Muslim extremists?
Answer: Not many.
Now, how many Muslims have publicly come out against the cartoon depictions of Muhammad recently in a Danish newspaper?
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
How many Muslims in Iraq, any Muslim country, or the US for that matter have publicly come out condemning the actions of Muslim extremists?
Answer: Not many.
Now, how many Muslims have publicly come out against the cartoon depictions of Muhammad recently in a Danish newspaper?
Answer: Thousands!
THAT is my proof!
[/quote]
This is opinion and not proof. It’s fine to have opinion; just make sure you are not presenting one as the other.
You do not spend your days condemning male rapists or apologizing for the actions of violent people in California. Is that proof that you both support men raping women and people from California committing acts of violence on others?
[quote]905Patrick wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
How many Muslims in Iraq, any Muslim country, or the US for that matter have publicly come out condemning the actions of Muslim extremists?
Answer: Not many.
Now, how many Muslims have publicly come out against the cartoon depictions of Muhammad recently in a Danish newspaper?
Answer: Thousands!
THAT is my proof!
This is opinion and not proof. It’s fine to have opinion; just make sure you are not presenting one as the other.
You do not spend your days condemning male rapists or apologizing for the actions of violent people in California. Is that proof that you both support men raping women and people from California committing acts of violence on others?[/quote]
He doesn’t subscribe to a religion that advocates the same, therefore he’s not liable.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
905Patrick wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
How many Muslims in Iraq, any Muslim country, or the US for that matter have publicly come out condemning the actions of Muslim extremists?
Answer: Not many.
Now, how many Muslims have publicly come out against the cartoon depictions of Muhammad recently in a Danish newspaper?
Answer: Thousands!
THAT is my proof!
This is opinion and not proof. It’s fine to have opinion; just make sure you are not presenting one as the other.
You do not spend your days condemning male rapists or apologizing for the actions of violent people in California. Is that proof that you both support men raping women and people from California committing acts of violence on others?
He doesn’t subscribe to a religion that advocates the same, therefore he’s not liable. [/quote]
I’m not following you here; but I’m an atheist so the point may be above me.
[quote]905Patrick wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
905Patrick wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
How many Muslims in Iraq, any Muslim country, or the US for that matter have publicly come out condemning the actions of Muslim extremists?
Answer: Not many.
Now, how many Muslims have publicly come out against the cartoon depictions of Muhammad recently in a Danish newspaper?
Answer: Thousands!
THAT is my proof!
This is opinion and not proof. It’s fine to have opinion; just make sure you are not presenting one as the other.
You do not spend your days condemning male rapists or apologizing for the actions of violent people in California. Is that proof that you both support men raping women and people from California committing acts of violence on others?
He doesn’t subscribe to a religion that advocates the same, therefore he’s not liable.
I’m not following you here; but I’m an atheist so the point may be above me.
[/quote]
If you’re an atheist, we may not be able to have a discussion about religious truth claims because most atheists believe they all say the same thing.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
If you’re an atheist, we may not be able to have a discussion about religious truth claims because most atheists believe they all say the same thing.
[/quote]
This is entirely possible. It’s opinion and not proof.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Irritant is the wrong word. It should be outrage. The fact that many are going around the world trying kill those who do not believe the way they do is outrageous and reprehensible.
Indeed. You could feel the outrage when the US military killed (directly and indirectly) shitloads of Iraqis.[/quote]
Good. If your organization (Al-Qaeda or Hezbollah, whichever you’re working for) was outraged by our success in Iraq it means we’re on the right track.
[quote]905Patrick wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
How many Muslims in Iraq, any Muslim country, or the US for that matter have publicly come out condemning the actions of Muslim extremists?
Answer: Not many.
Now, how many Muslims have publicly come out against the cartoon depictions of Muhammad recently in a Danish newspaper?
Answer: Thousands!
THAT is my proof!
This is opinion and not proof. It’s fine to have opinion; just make sure you are not presenting one as the other.
You do not spend your days condemning male rapists or apologizing for the actions of violent people in California. Is that proof that you both support men raping women and people from California committing acts of violence on others?[/quote]
Poor try; Where you live or gender is much different than being a voluntary member of a religious group.
If some of the people in my church were doing something I felt was wrong I would either stand up against it or leave the church.
Yet, isn’t it telling that the thing that gets Muslims outranged and protesting in the streets is not the deaths of innocent people from extremist bombs or other terrorist acts, it’s a cartoon depicting Muslims as violent.
Is this proof? Not sure what you would accept as proof, but to me it is clearly a sign of the mindset of Muslims.
It is also extremely telling that when Muslims are accused of being violent, they take to the streets and kill people in protest actually proving they are violent.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Poor try; Where you live or gender is much different than being a voluntary member of a religious group.
[/quote]
Really? What percentage of people make the decision to become Christian vs. are Christians (by virtue of their parents religious values)?
People are 99.9% genetically identical so upbringing has as a lot to do with how they view the world. There is a very good chance that you would be a hard-line Muslim if you had been born into a situation that mandated you become a hard-line Muslim.
How many Muslim people do you know and when you ask them to apologize for the actions of other Muslims, how dignified are they when they honor your request?
Below are some resources where Muslims condemn the actions of extremists. The condemnation is out there, you just need to be willing to accept that it exists and then read it. Your proof does not exist.
[quote]905Patrick wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Poor try; Where you live or gender is much different than being a voluntary member of a religious group.
Really? What percentage of people make the decision to become Christian vs. are Christians (by virtue of their parents religious values)?
People are 99.9% genetically identical so upbringing has as a lot to do with how they view the world. There is a very good chance that you would be a hard-line Muslim if you had been born into a situation that mandated you become a hard-line Muslim.
How many Muslim people do you know and when you ask them to apologize for the actions of other Muslims, how dignified are they when they honor your request?
Below are some resources where Muslims condemn the actions of extremists. The condemnation is out there, you just need to be willing to accept that it exists and then read it. Your proof does not exist.
Those quotes you provided are standard Islamic taqiyya. They can condemn “extremism” all day and not condemn jihad as “warfare for the spread of religion,” which is precisely what they did.
Let’s look at the first two paragraphs of page 7 of the Saudi document:
[quote]There can be no acceptance or justification for terrorism. Nor is there a place for any
ideology which promotes it, or beliefs which condone it. We specifically warn anyone who
tries to justify these crimes in the name of religion. And we say that anyone who tries to do so
will be considered a full partner to the terrorists and will share their fate. As revealed in the
Holy Qur�??an: If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein
(forever): and the wrath and the curse of God are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared
for him."
Further, as revealed in the Holy Qur�??an, the taking of an innocent life is a crime against all of
humanity. In the words of the Prophet (God s peace and mercy be upon him): He who kills a
resident living in peace among you, will never breathe the air of heaven.[/quote]
So it condemns killing of other Muslims and never defines what an “innocent life” is in Islam, which is different than what WEsterners think it is.
It says “if a man kills a believer intentionally…” does that mean it is ok for him to kill a non-believer?
edit- It also says it is wrong to take an innocent life. So, if you arbitrarily claim your victim is guilty of some sin, is it ok to kill them? This can be easily manipulated by labeling enemies Zionists, Capitalists, Crusaders, etc.