[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
An elderly woman who called 911 gets shot by police.
Fuckin’ trigger-happy pigs. [/quote]
Yea, I’m sure these cops felt really good about shooting an old lady.
On arrival, they heard shots being fired. After taking cover, they saw the old lady and realized she had a gun, which she pointed at the officers. They told her to drop it, she didn’t. If she was visually and hearing impaired, she shouldn’t be leaving the house with a gun. What if she wandered outside and shot her neighbor while he was taking out the garbage, thinking he was the burglar?
Regardless of age or sex, what would you do if someone was pointing a gun at you and didn’t put it down after you’ve told them to?
[/quote]
Move away from them… especially if they were an old lady lol
[/quote]
You’re right. Police should leave immediately if a situation becomes dangerous.
Thanks for the laugh.
[/quote]
In this situation it clearly was only dangerous for the old lady…
You say that like it’s bad or unjustified? I like living. Someone pointing a gun at me is a credible threat to me continuing to live.
I’ve got a lot of problems with law enforcement’s increasing militarization, but this doesn’t really strike me as a bad call on the cops part.[/quote]
IF it is loaded.
IF they will actually shoot you.
IF it is even a real gun.
IF there is nothing else you can do to stop them shooting at you.
Just because it looks like a gun, it doesn’t actually constitute a credible threat to your life. That is a FACT.
You can’t even find statistics on how many people the police in America have killed. The use of proportional force is clearly not a moral issue in the US - which should be a big concern.
The case of Jordan vs New London is perhaps the biggest inditement of American police, where:
“Jordan applied for a police job in New London and scored 33 on his qualification exam, equivalent to a 125 IQ. That’s one standard deviation above the mean Ã??Ã?¢?? smart, but no genius by any definition. The city refused to hire him, stating a preference for those who scored 27 or lower; the suggested median for a patrol officer was 21. New London’s argument was that smart people would find police work boring, and leave the profession after receiving expensive training. Jordan sued for discrimination Ã??Ã?¢?? and lost. The court ruled there’s nothing discriminatory about a city’s desire to ensure only C-students get to carry police badges.” (the Guardian newspaper).
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So enlighten us how do you tell if a gun is loaded if your not the one handling it?[/quote]
You can’t. You just don’t know it is a credible threat. All you know is that you have a loaded gun… Can you see the moral issue?
[quote]Trocchi wrote:
This is why police shouldn’t carry guns. Someone, not for the first time, ends up shot by the police who is not an actual threat.
I’m amazed that the police are so inadequate at communicating with suspects - it seems that anything less than absolute compliance on the part of the public is a mandate for the police to feel absolutely and totally threatened to the point that they can use absolutely any force they want, including shooting someone dead.
[/quote]
You’re absolute right. Police shouldn’t have guns. I volunteer you to take the first shift.
Trocchi is simply from England and has no idea how stupid he sounds. There’s not much you will be able to say to convince him. I’ll say this though, what do you think would happen if you got a bunch of unarmed British cops over here and ask them to do the same job? Obviously there wouldn’t be any innocent victims accidentally shot by cops. You know what there would be though? 1000x more innocent victims shot by criminals.
[quote]Trocchi wrote:
This is why police shouldn’t carry guns. Someone, not for the first time, ends up shot by the police who is not an actual threat.
I’m amazed that the police are so inadequate at communicating with suspects - it seems that anything less than absolute compliance on the part of the public is a mandate for the police to feel absolutely and totally threatened to the point that they can use absolutely any force they want, including shooting someone dead.
[/quote]
You’re absolute right. Police shouldn’t have guns. I volunteer you to take the first shift. [/quote]
In the UK police not having guns is the norm… I guess America has completely different cultural ideas.
Its always confusing when here you can’t own a taser, but in the us you can just buy a gun…
Trocchi, cops in the US need guns because most Americans have guns. Criminals have guns. Having unarmed police only works if the average criminal is also unarmed. How is this not obvious to you? If you want to argue about American gun reform in general, you’ll make a lot more sense.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
An elderly woman who called 911 gets shot by police.
Fuckin’ trigger-happy pigs. [/quote]
Yea, I’m sure these cops felt really good about shooting an old lady.
On arrival, they heard shots being fired. After taking cover, they saw the old lady and realized she had a gun, which she pointed at the officers. They told her to drop it, she didn’t. If she was visually and hearing impaired, she shouldn’t be leaving the house with a gun. What if she wandered outside and shot her neighbor while he was taking out the garbage, thinking he was the burglar?
Regardless of age or sex, what would you do if someone was pointing a gun at you and didn’t put it down after you’ve told them to?
[/quote]
Of course the cops SAID she pointed at them. I highly doubt that she did. She called 911. You don’t call 911 and NOT expect police to arrive.
[/quote]
Yea, she called 911 and then went outside with a handgun and pointed it at police.
I’m not saying she is a bad person at all. Sometimes old people are confused, and they do things they wouldn’t normally do. Maybe she didn’t realize they were police because she didn’t have her glasses on and couldn’t hear their demands. That doesn’t change the fact that she could have killed an officer.
Now pretend you’re the one looking down the barrel of a gun. Do you realize your life is in danger, and stop the threat, or do you close your eyes and say “I can’t shoot an old lady, even if it means I’ll never see my wife or kids again…”"
I want you to answer the question. Second time I’ve asked you.
[quote]csulli wrote:
Trocchi is simply from England and has no idea how stupid he sounds. There’s not much you will be able to say to convince him. I’ll say this though, what do you think would happen if you got a bunch of unarmed British cops over here and ask them to do the same job? Obviously there wouldn’t be any innocent victims accidentally shot by cops. You know what there would be though? 1000x more innocent victims shot by criminals.[/quote]
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
An elderly woman who called 911 gets shot by police.
Fuckin’ trigger-happy pigs. [/quote]
Yea, I’m sure these cops felt really good about shooting an old lady.
On arrival, they heard shots being fired. After taking cover, they saw the old lady and realized she had a gun, which she pointed at the officers. They told her to drop it, she didn’t. If she was visually and hearing impaired, she shouldn’t be leaving the house with a gun. What if she wandered outside and shot her neighbor while he was taking out the garbage, thinking he was the burglar?
Regardless of age or sex, what would you do if someone was pointing a gun at you and didn’t put it down after you’ve told them to?
[/quote]
Of course the cops SAID she pointed at them. I highly doubt that she did. She called 911. You don’t call 911 and NOT expect police to arrive.
[/quote]
Why do you highly doubt it? What information do you have about this that I don’t? How can you reasonably come to that conclusion? Don’t tell me because all cops are liars and all old ladies are of sound mind and judgement.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
An elderly woman who called 911 gets shot by police.
Fuckin’ trigger-happy pigs. [/quote]
Yea, I’m sure these cops felt really good about shooting an old lady.
On arrival, they heard shots being fired. After taking cover, they saw the old lady and realized she had a gun, which she pointed at the officers. They told her to drop it, she didn’t. If she was visually and hearing impaired, she shouldn’t be leaving the house with a gun. What if she wandered outside and shot her neighbor while he was taking out the garbage, thinking he was the burglar?
Regardless of age or sex, what would you do if someone was pointing a gun at you and didn’t put it down after you’ve told them to?
[/quote]
Of course the cops SAID she pointed at them. I highly doubt that she did. She called 911. You don’t call 911 and NOT expect police to arrive.
[/quote]
Why do you highly doubt it? What information do you have about this that I don’t? How can you reasonably come to that conclusion? Don’t tell me because all cops are liars and all old ladies are of sound mind and judgement. [/quote]
Even her family said it wouldn’t be her character to do so. Now, which sounds more plausible? Old ladies aren’t reputed to point guns at cops, but I could fill PAGES of incidents trigger-happy pigs.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
An elderly woman who called 911 gets shot by police.
Fuckin’ trigger-happy pigs. [/quote]
Yea, I’m sure these cops felt really good about shooting an old lady.
On arrival, they heard shots being fired. After taking cover, they saw the old lady and realized she had a gun, which she pointed at the officers. They told her to drop it, she didn’t. If she was visually and hearing impaired, she shouldn’t be leaving the house with a gun. What if she wandered outside and shot her neighbor while he was taking out the garbage, thinking he was the burglar?
Regardless of age or sex, what would you do if someone was pointing a gun at you and didn’t put it down after you’ve told them to?
[/quote]
Of course the cops SAID she pointed at them. I highly doubt that she did. She called 911. You don’t call 911 and NOT expect police to arrive.
[/quote]
Why do you highly doubt it? What information do you have about this that I don’t? How can you reasonably come to that conclusion? Don’t tell me because all cops are liars and all old ladies are of sound mind and judgement. [/quote]
Even her family said it wouldn’t be her character to do so. Now, which sounds more plausible? Old ladies aren’t reputed to point guns at cops, but I could fill PAGES of incidents trigger-happy pigs.
You’re a cop, aren’t you?
[/quote]
My grandma is a sweet old lady as well. Recently due to health issues, she’s been acting out violently at healthcare staff. It pains me to think of her this way, but things like this happen in old age. I’ve had elderly people try to stab me with scissors on a few occasions. Minutes later they don’t even remember doing it.
She already shot her weapon in the house at the “burglar”. Has the story made mention of there even being a burglar present? Could it be possible that this woman was suffering from dementia or some other cognitive impairment?
Old ladies are not reputed to point guns at cops, but they also are not reputed to chase people out of their homes brandishing handguns. Sometimes strange things happen.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
An elderly woman who called 911 gets shot by police.
Fuckin’ trigger-happy pigs. [/quote]
Yea, I’m sure these cops felt really good about shooting an old lady.
On arrival, they heard shots being fired. After taking cover, they saw the old lady and realized she had a gun, which she pointed at the officers. They told her to drop it, she didn’t. If she was visually and hearing impaired, she shouldn’t be leaving the house with a gun. What if she wandered outside and shot her neighbor while he was taking out the garbage, thinking he was the burglar?
Regardless of age or sex, what would you do if someone was pointing a gun at you and didn’t put it down after you’ve told them to?
[/quote]
Of course the cops SAID she pointed at them. I highly doubt that she did. She called 911. You don’t call 911 and NOT expect police to arrive.
[/quote]
Why do you highly doubt it? What information do you have about this that I don’t? How can you reasonably come to that conclusion? Don’t tell me because all cops are liars and all old ladies are of sound mind and judgement. [/quote]
Even her family said it wouldn’t be her character to do so. Now, which sounds more plausible? Old ladies aren’t reputed to point guns at cops, but I could fill PAGES of incidents trigger-happy pigs.
You’re a cop, aren’t you?
[/quote]
My grandma is a sweet old lady as well. Recently due to health issues, she’s been acting out violently at healthcare staff. It pains me to think of her this way, but things like this happen in old age. I’ve had elderly people try to stab me with scissors on a few occasions. Minutes later they don’t even remember doing it.
She already shot her weapon in the house at the “burglar”. Has the story made mention of there even being a burglar present? Could it be possible that this woman was suffering from dementia or some other cognitive impairment?
Old ladies are not reputed to point guns at cops, but they also are not reputed to chase people out of their homes brandishing handguns. Sometimes strange things happen.
Now answer the question.
Edit
[/quote]
If this wasn’t so suspicious, why was the cop suspended?
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
An elderly woman who called 911 gets shot by police.
Fuckin’ trigger-happy pigs. [/quote]
Yea, I’m sure these cops felt really good about shooting an old lady.
On arrival, they heard shots being fired. After taking cover, they saw the old lady and realized she had a gun, which she pointed at the officers. They told her to drop it, she didn’t. If she was visually and hearing impaired, she shouldn’t be leaving the house with a gun. What if she wandered outside and shot her neighbor while he was taking out the garbage, thinking he was the burglar?
Regardless of age or sex, what would you do if someone was pointing a gun at you and didn’t put it down after you’ve told them to?
[/quote]
Of course the cops SAID she pointed at them. I highly doubt that she did. She called 911. You don’t call 911 and NOT expect police to arrive.
[/quote]
Why do you highly doubt it? What information do you have about this that I don’t? How can you reasonably come to that conclusion? Don’t tell me because all cops are liars and all old ladies are of sound mind and judgement. [/quote]
Even her family said it wouldn’t be her character to do so. Now, which sounds more plausible? Old ladies aren’t reputed to point guns at cops, but I could fill PAGES of incidents trigger-happy pigs.
You’re a cop, aren’t you?
[/quote]
I could fill PAGES of incidents where old people do things that are out of character.
There’s not enough detail in the story to reasonably come to a conclusion in either direction. It could certainly have been a trigger-happy officer. It could just as easily been a thoroughly confused, deaf, half-blind woman pointing a gun because she was scared.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
An elderly woman who called 911 gets shot by police.
Fuckin’ trigger-happy pigs. [/quote]
Yea, I’m sure these cops felt really good about shooting an old lady.
On arrival, they heard shots being fired. After taking cover, they saw the old lady and realized she had a gun, which she pointed at the officers. They told her to drop it, she didn’t. If she was visually and hearing impaired, she shouldn’t be leaving the house with a gun. What if she wandered outside and shot her neighbor while he was taking out the garbage, thinking he was the burglar?
Regardless of age or sex, what would you do if someone was pointing a gun at you and didn’t put it down after you’ve told them to?
[/quote]
Of course the cops SAID she pointed at them. I highly doubt that she did. She called 911. You don’t call 911 and NOT expect police to arrive.
[/quote]
Why do you highly doubt it? What information do you have about this that I don’t? How can you reasonably come to that conclusion? Don’t tell me because all cops are liars and all old ladies are of sound mind and judgement. [/quote]
Even her family said it wouldn’t be her character to do so. Now, which sounds more plausible? Old ladies aren’t reputed to point guns at cops, but I could fill PAGES of incidents trigger-happy pigs.
You’re a cop, aren’t you?
[/quote]
My grandma is a sweet old lady as well. Recently due to health issues, she’s been acting out violently at healthcare staff. It pains me to think of her this way, but things like this happen in old age. I’ve had elderly people try to stab me with scissors on a few occasions. Minutes later they don’t even remember doing it.
She already shot her weapon in the house at the “burglar”. Has the story made mention of there even being a burglar present? Could it be possible that this woman was suffering from dementia or some other cognitive impairment?
Old ladies are not reputed to point guns at cops, but they also are not reputed to chase people out of their homes brandishing handguns. Sometimes strange things happen.
Now answer the question.
Edit
[/quote]
If this wasn’t so suspicious, why was the cop suspended?
[/quote]
He isn’t. He’s on administrative leave which is standard operating procedure for most departments after a shooting. You don’t put a guy who has killed back on the street the next day.
I dont care how christian she is, you dont have a gun unless you intend to use it. She had a gun for self defense reasons. logic would state a warning shot would scare off an intruder (put yourself in the attackers shoes, you break into a house, the owner fires live rounds, you immediately leave). For whatever reason she felt it necessary to leave the house after calling the police. Most people would have locked themselves in a room waiting on the phone with dispatch for the police to arrive and clear the scene.
If you have not spoken with officers or been one you truly wouldnt understand. everyone is an armchair expert.
I recently attended a SWAT training on a particular situation experience of entering an close quaters (bus, hallway, room, house, apartment etc) and encountering a situation in which a subject presented themselves as a dont shoot, cant shoot or wont shoot. During the breaks officers brought up and quoted several instances in which they themselves were in situations in which they assessed the situation as "no-way-in-hell-ever did I think the subject would a) draw and fire b) carried c) had intent to kill d) was capable of shooting. We dont hear every officer involved shooting but they happen almost any day.
I have witnessed two officers tell stories in which they full believed there was no way any of the above would happen. 1 officer was shot once in the mouth and chest by a 14 year old suspect they were trying to remove from movie theater for a domestic disturbance call. The world Cray. When you are forced to go through trainind and constantly updated on incidents around the world about similar situations like the one above, you dont take things lightly any more.
