Moral Poverty Cost Blacks in New Orleans

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
“Blacks are obligated to help themselves and not depend on the government to care for them.”

The second to last sentence in the article. I understand why he is trying to make his point, and how he is doing it, but I will just say that he is wrong. The statement should read:

Everyone is obligated to help themselves and not depend on the government to care for them.

When you make a statement like he did, it devalues all the hard work and dedication which is shown by every black person who isn’t sitting around waiting for a handout. I realize this is the author using a poetic device, and an appeal to the reader’s (hopefully) developed sensibilities, but it’s still racism.[/quote]

Equivocation doesn’t work well if you are attempting to appear logical. Red Herrings are even less valid.

Webster’s defines racism as (1) the idea that one’s race is superior - and - (2) a policy or practice based on such an idea.

The context of all of the discussion surrounding what happened has been: blacks vs white / poor vs rich / haves vs. have-nots.

All of this is based on a false premise that someone in the federal government is trying to remove / kill / distroy blacks.

That view (i.e. - “We” must distroy the black population of the USA becasuse “they” are inferior) is a completely racist view. But the view of the author is that the members of the black community must not rely the federal government first but rather they must rely on themselves first.

The author frames his viewpoint specifically on the black community simply beacuse “they” have been the central figures in the overall discussion.

Racist? Hardly. Do over.

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:

Whoa horsey! Where is the “excuse”? The ghetto sucks. Nobody is saying any different. Elk makes a good point in saying that all men are not created equal. The black community has had to deal with a lot of shit not of their own making which you and I never had to worry about. That’s not an excuse, that’s the truth.

I mean, if we really are trying to cut the crap here. You can’t look me in the eye and say “loth, the average white child has the same number and quality of opportunities as the average black child.” --Not without my BS detector making that beeping noise.

Have you ever heard that song “The Trees” by Rush? Google the lyrics.[/quote]

Maybe I wasn’t clear. I’ll give an example:

“My bench sucks, but my arms are too long.”

“My deadlift sucks, but my arms are too short.”

“Sure I’m 6’4”, 185lbs, but I’m a hardgainer, so for me that is excellent."

“Sure I’m 30% bodyfat, but I have a slow metabolism, so for me that is excellent.”

Vs.

“Sure blacks are having a tougher time succeeding in this society, but that’s because life isn’t fair to them because all you white folks are racist and hold them back.”

“Sure blacks are responsible for 50% of the murders in a country where they make up 12% of the population, but 200 years ago people with the same color skin as them were held as slaves, so really for them that is excellent.”

Response to the former from T-Nation

“Stop whinging, life isn’t fair. Something’s harder for you? Good then, work harder.”

Response to the latter from T-Nation:

“It’s so true, we need to give them free in order to make up for the unfairness in life.”

I don’t understand this disparity.

Part of the reason for disparity is the means for achievement.

If you are talking about working out, you control everything that might be able to hold you back.

If you are struggling against racism, you can only do what you can do, but you can’t remove the racism that may be present and working against you.

Everyone knows that hard work, effort, and so on are important. A lot of people who do work hard are never given a chance.

As a white person, it is dumb to assume that everyone is given the same chance to succeed as you when their qualifications are equivalent.

There are a lot of problems in many areas of society, but recognizing them and discussing them doesn’t have to become a “insert race here” has “insert shortcoming here” topic.

For example, honestly, how do we both enable and motivate segments of society that are currently underproductive to become more integrated with the economic success of the country?

This is not “political correctness”, it is a statement that recognizes the issues in place and seeks a solution. Race is not an issue – people are people. By this, I mean that history and circumstance will do things to all people, no matter their race.

Promoting issues in a racial manner, when what is involved are simply people, is counterproductive. People doing so often have racial motives or political motives, or they simply don’t know how to express themselves.

Political correctness is railed against in these parts a lot, but really all it means is you have to think a little harder and put a bit more effort into what you say… and if you don’t, I guess that would make you lazy.

Go figure.

[quote]vroom wrote:
I don’t understand this disparity.

Part of the reason for disparity is the means for achievement.

If you are talking about working out, you control everything that might be able to hold you back.

If you are struggling against racism, you can only do what you can do, but you can’t remove the racism that may be present and working against you. [/quote] True enough, but generally, what you can do is enough. It may not be easy, but is is possible [quote]

Everyone knows that hard work, effort, and so on are important. A lot of people who do work hard are never given a chance.

As a white person, it is dumb to assume that everyone is given the same chance to succeed as you when their qualifications are equivalent.

There are a lot of problems in many areas of society, but recognizing them and discussing them doesn’t have to become a “insert race here” has “insert shortcoming here” topic.

For example, honestly, how do we both enable and motivate segments of society that are currently underproductive to become more integrated with the economic success of the country?[/quote]

The simplest way to motivate them would be to stop giving them handouts. When they realize they will either have to become productive, or starve, they will motivate themselves. Of course, this is impossible politically. [quote]

This is not “political correctness”, it is a statement that recognizes the issues in place and seeks a solution. Race is not an issue – people are people. By this, I mean that history and circumstance will do things to all people, no matter their race. [/quote]

I agree, a white welfare addict is no different from a black welfare addict.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
I am not even going to begin to tell you how completely asinine your comparison is of what your people went through in your home country to what has been done to systematically destroy those of African heritage in THIS COUNTRY for the last 400 years and counting.

Furthermore, I am not going to get into a discussion on the differences of CHOOSING to come to this country (or escaping your home country) as a free WHITE person, with all of your culture and heritage intact and being dragged over here in chains and having your culture and heritage being stripped from you by one of the most inhumane systems in existence and how that has affected African-Americans to this day.

I also am not going to discuss how the negative stereotypes of African-Americans in this country is what shapes the mainstream’s perceptions of all African-American. We all get lumped into the perception, regardless if we do or don’t fit into it. Every image that is given of black people in this country portrays us in a negative light. I am not talking about just the ones where we are taken away in handcuffs (which are too numerous to mention). Look at Sports Illustrated and see when a black person is on the cover, they are usually looking fierce, mean and violent. When a white person is on the cover, they are posed like some Greek god. While I’m glad to see that black person on the cover, subtle things like this have been going on for many years and has had a negative impact on the black community.

What I am going to do is applaud your family for surviving some of the harshest conditions known and coming to this country and making good. We will hopefully never have to deal with that in our lifetime. No matter how anyone feels about this topic, your family have done things right with hard work.

However, for you and all of my caucasian friends out there regardless of where you came from, until you can switch color and walk in this country as a black person, your comments like these will always be viewed as ignorant and racist. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

Am I making excuses for people being lazy? No. What I am saying is that it is far more complicated than people being lazy and sweeping blanket statements like “They are just lazy!” shows how truly ignorant you are to what has been going on in this country.

I am not using the word ignorant as an insult. I am using it as the definition of “lacking knowledge”. Please do not take it as an insult. This is by no fault of your own. You couldn’t know because you are not part of that community. You could no more know what it is like being black in this country than any man would know about giving birth.

Just as a side note, I was that black kid in class being made fun of for being studious. I was that black kid that had to fight people because I was smarter than them on something (I got good at fighting because of it). But did I become a self-hating black person? No. I knew that many times it was fear that drove them. They were more scared of me than I ever was of them because I showed them that we could be better than that. I eventually earned their respect because they saw that I was doing the right things and good things were happening to me. Many of the same guys that initally gave me a hard time became my protectors because they wanted to see someone do well. Maybe it made them feel good to elevate one of their own. Thing is though, people like you would never know this because you are on the outside looking in.[/quote]

Very well said.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
The simplest way to motivate them would be to stop giving them handouts. When they realize they will either have to become productive, or starve, they will motivate themselves. Of course, this is impossible politically.
[/quote]

Why do you assume all people on welfare are unmotivated?

rev peterson is a joke
he can point out the flaws in the black community,but does nothing to fix them. all he does is sit back and find reasons to hate on the black leaders that are trying to do something. this dude is a clown

Dammit Reddog, I don’t think I’m going to find a way to disagree with you on this one!

Anyway, there are many ways to attempt to insert the proper incentives to spur people to take charge of generating their own achievements – other than simply turning off the spigot completely.

Poor people, white, black or otherwise, need to unlearn the hopelessness that their parents and community drill into them.

This is true for fat people, who need to unlearn the unhealthy eating and lifestyle habits that were drilled into them as well.

It is an instinct to continue to do things that appear to “work” for us. We eat the same foods, we follow the same habits, we use the same strategies.

I know it isn’t universal, there are exceptions, but by and large people learn the habits that will guide their lives unless something happens to shake them out it.

Some things that many poor children probably didn’t learn:

  • How to manage your money.
  • How to take charge of your future.
  • How to start a business.
  • How to manage employees.
  • How to climb the corporate ladder.
  • How to buy a house.
  • How to exercise self-discipline.

I may be wrong, but if people don’t know how to do something, the odds of them going out and doing it will be greatly lowered. The world is pretty damned difficult to succeed in if nobody taught you the skills that help you succeed.

We can sit around and bitch about the fact that poor people don’t spontaneously realize what it is that is holding them back and correct it, or we can break down some barriers and make it easier to pick up and apply these skills.

Obviously, I’m not talking about handing out cash for sitting on your ass.

I guess I’m probably talking about making it possible for people that have grown up and found that their childhood has given them nothing useful to get what they need to succeed.

You know… we all do it to one degree or another. We grow up and figure out that life sucks because we have to go to work every day, we have to pay our own rent, we have to buy our own food. In short, we suddenly understand that we want a better life and only those of us that made good decisions at an early age will have the needed skills.

The decisions made at that early age will be influenced by our parents and by others in our community. They will often be very poor decisions. Why do we force people making bad decisions up until the age of 18 to live with the consequences. They were not responsible adults at the time the decisions were made. They didn’t choose to have parent that didn’t have the ability to make them successful in society.

Anyway, I’m not talking about some big handout or anything like that. I’m talking about giving people that are able to prove themselves by showing desire and dedication some additional opportunies to pick up their needed skills.

It is in our own financial interest to do this… whenever a member of society is willing to work hard and elevate themselves. An elevated person passes on their knowledge and attitudes to their children – breaking the chain of poverty and dependence and demonstrating to others that it can be done.

In the past, segments of society have been sunk, stripped of skills and independence, denied of opportunity and now we complain because they aren’t spontaneously lifting themselves back up. They didn’t put themselves down there on their own and they shouldn’t have to life themselves up by entirely their own efforts alone either.

When people reach up, of any race, we need to help pull them up… without creating dependency on handouts or any other disincentives.

What programs out there do this now?

Hold on there loth! Fat, drunk goth chicks need some lovin’ too.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
The simplest way to motivate them would be to stop giving them handouts. When they realize they will either have to become productive, or starve, they will motivate themselves. Of course, this is impossible politically.

Why do you assume all people on welfare are unmotivated?[/quote]

I don’t. I’m not for ending all welfare. But there should be a time limit for the recepient, and it should be conditional on some type of job training. However, giving people unending handouts, breeds non-motivated people. Hell, the same thing happens in animals. Feed wild animals & they quickly give up their natural hunting/foraging instincts to come get a free meal. Why should people be any different?

[quote]BrwnbellyYankee wrote:
rev peterson is a joke
he can point out the flaws in the black community,but does nothing to fix them. all he does is sit back and find reasons to hate on the black leaders that are trying to do something. this dude is a clown[/quote]

Bullshit. http://www.bondinfo.org/about/mission/mission.htm
He’s one of the few that’s actually trying to make a difference. Compare him to black “leaders” like Jackson & Farakhan who preach how the white man owes blacks, & they shouldn’t have to work.

[quote]vroom wrote:

Dammit Reddog, I don’t think I’m going to find a way to disagree with you on this one!

Anyway, there are many ways to attempt to insert the proper incentives to spur people to take charge of generating their own achievements – other than simply turning off the spigot completely. [/quote] No, not completely, but welfare & the war on poverty is clearly not the solution. [quote]

Poor people, white, black or otherwise, need to unlearn the hopelessness that their parents and community drill into them.

This is true for fat people, who need to unlearn the unhealthy eating and lifestyle habits that were drilled into them as well.

It is an instinct to continue to do things that appear to “work” for us. We eat the same foods, we follow the same habits, we use the same strategies.

I know it isn’t universal, there are exceptions, but by and large people learn the habits that will guide their lives unless something happens to shake them out it.

Some things that many poor children probably didn’t learn:

  • How to manage your money.
  • How to take charge of your future.
  • How to start a business.
  • How to manage employees.
  • How to climb the corporate ladder.
  • How to buy a house.
  • How to exercise self-discipline.

I may be wrong, but if people don’t know how to do something, the odds of them going out and doing it will be greatly lowered. The world is pretty damned difficult to succeed in if nobody taught you the skills that help you succeed.

We can sit around and bitch about the fact that poor people don’t spontaneously realize what it is that is holding them back and correct it, or we can break down some barriers and make it easier to pick up and apply these skills.

Obviously, I’m not talking about handing out cash for sitting on your ass.

I guess I’m probably talking about making it possible for people that have grown up and found that their childhood has given them nothing useful to get what they need to succeed.

You know… we all do it to one degree or another. We grow up and figure out that life sucks because we have to go to work every day, we have to pay our own rent, we have to buy our own food. In short, we suddenly understand that we want a better life and only those of us that made good decisions at an early age will have the needed skills.

The decisions made at that early age will be influenced by our parents and by others in our community. They will often be very poor decisions. Why do we force people making bad decisions up until the age of 18 to live with the consequences. They were not responsible adults at the time the decisions were made. They didn’t choose to have parent that didn’t have the ability to make them successful in society.

Anyway, I’m not talking about some big handout or anything like that. I’m talking about giving people that are able to prove themselves by showing desire and dedication some additional opportunies to pick up their needed skills.

It is in our own financial interest to do this… whenever a member of society is willing to work hard and elevate themselves. An elevated person passes on their knowledge and attitudes to their children – breaking the chain of poverty and dependence and demonstrating to others that it can be done.

In the past, segments of society have been sunk, stripped of skills and independence, denied of opportunity and now we complain because they aren’t spontaneously lifting themselves back up. They didn’t put themselves down there on their own and they shouldn’t have to life themselves up by entirely their own efforts alone either.

When people reach up, of any race, we need to help pull them up… without creating dependency on handouts or any other disincentives.

What programs out there do this now?[/quote]

Rev. Peterson’s B.O.N.D. is a start. Having popular culture glorify drug use & violent crime is a step backwards. Jesse Jackson’s brand of racism is also a step backwards.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
BrwnbellyYankee wrote:
rev peterson is a joke
he can point out the flaws in the black community,but does nothing to fix them. all he does is sit back and find reasons to hate on the black leaders that are trying to do something. this dude is a clown

Bullshit. http://www.bondinfo.org/about/mission/mission.htm
He’s one of the few that’s actually trying to make a difference. Compare him to black “leaders” like Jackson & Farakhan who preach how the white man owes blacks, & they shouldn’t have to work.[/quote]

What? When has Farakhan ever made any statement like that? Hell, when has Jesse Jackson ever said this? I am tired of the bullshit generalizations that some of you throw out. PLEASE provide a quote stating what you just wrote from either of these men.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
BrwnbellyYankee wrote:
rev peterson is a joke
he can point out the flaws in the black community,but does nothing to fix them. all he does is sit back and find reasons to hate on the black leaders that are trying to do something. this dude is a clown

Bullshit. http://www.bondinfo.org/about/mission/mission.htm
He’s one of the few that’s actually trying to make a difference. Compare him to black “leaders” like Jackson & Farakhan who preach how the white man owes blacks, & they shouldn’t have to work.

What? When has Farakhan ever made any statement like that? Hell, when has Jesse Jackson ever said this? I am tired of the bullshit generalizations that some of you throw out. PLEASE provide a quote stating what you just wrote from either of these men.[/quote]

One word Prof. “Reparations”

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
BrwnbellyYankee wrote:
rev peterson is a joke
he can point out the flaws in the black community,but does nothing to fix them. all he does is sit back and find reasons to hate on the black leaders that are trying to do something. this dude is a clown

Bullshit. http://www.bondinfo.org/about/mission/mission.htm
He’s one of the few that’s actually trying to make a difference. Compare him to black “leaders” like Jackson & Farakhan who preach how the white man owes blacks, & they shouldn’t have to work.

What? When has Farakhan ever made any statement like that? Hell, when has Jesse Jackson ever said this? I am tired of the bullshit generalizations that some of you throw out. PLEASE provide a quote stating what you just wrote from either of these men.

One word Prof. “Reparations”
[/quote]

He said a quote, not one of the standard pithy remarks that are famous on here. Standard FOX news tactics.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
BrwnbellyYankee wrote:
rev peterson is a joke
he can point out the flaws in the black community,but does nothing to fix them. all he does is sit back and find reasons to hate on the black leaders that are trying to do something. this dude is a clown

Bullshit. http://www.bondinfo.org/about/mission/mission.htm
He’s one of the few that’s actually trying to make a difference. Compare him to black “leaders” like Jackson & Farakhan who preach how the white man owes blacks, & they shouldn’t have to work.

What? When has Farakhan ever made any statement like that? Hell, when has Jesse Jackson ever said this? I am tired of the bullshit generalizations that some of you throw out. PLEASE provide a quote stating what you just wrote from either of these men.

One word Prof. “Reparations”
[/quote]

Do you even understand what any of them have said or even listened to a speech espcecially by Farakhan? I don’t personally agree with everything the man says, but he is in no way associated with believing blacks don’t have to work. You lied. Why lie?

I don’t think the word “reparations” equates to “not having to work”. It is not a simple term… though it is certainly a politically explosive one.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
BrwnbellyYankee wrote:
rev peterson is a joke
he can point out the flaws in the black community,but does nothing to fix them. all he does is sit back and find reasons to hate on the black leaders that are trying to do something. this dude is a clown

Bullshit. http://www.bondinfo.org/about/mission/mission.htm
He’s one of the few that’s actually trying to make a difference. Compare him to black “leaders” like Jackson & Farakhan who preach how the white man owes blacks, & they shouldn’t have to work.[/quote]

Peterson seems like he truly “understands”. A wonderful leader.

http://www.bondinfo.org/activism/naacp_boycott/naacp.htm

[quote]ALDurr wrote:

One word Prof. “Reparations”

He said a quote, not one of the standard pithy remarks that are famous on here. Standard FOX news tactics.[/quote]

Notice the quotation marks?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

One word Prof. “Reparations”

Do you even understand what any of them have said or even listened to a speech espcecially by Farakhan? I don’t personally agree with everything the man says, but he is in no way associated with believing blacks don’t have to work. You lied. Why lie?[/quote]

They both want 100’s of millions of $$$ to be paid to people who didn’t earn it = getting paid for not having to work.
How is that a lie?