Quintero and Doumit are now both injured. I’ve also seen my teams catcher and potential ROY JP Arencibia get into a mild plate collision this year. I would bet catchers get into 2-4 each a year ranging from mild to severe.
I guess you could argue Doumit’s wasn’t really a plate collision in the same sense as the others.
[quote]Cuban32 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Cuban32 wrote:
You really think he figured it out at age 30-31? That a hitting coach figured out a secret. Come on dude.
[/quote]
Kevin Long adjusted Granderson’s hand position in his stance. He’s now hitting homers at a similar clip to bautista. The adjustment was made in August of last season. Look at grandersons numbers from then until now. About 35 homers in 90 games.
Is he doing it too? Hitting coaches can fix things. There are multiple examples of late bloomers. And there is also no evidence to suggest that Bautista will continue this pace for 8 more years, like Bonds was able to with steroids. 30 years old is the prime of a player’s career.
I know for a fact you dont watch even half of the blue jays games. You dont see the pitches he’s hitting out. I dont watch many either, but I see some of his at bats on mlb extra innings. He bangs every single mistake pitch. AND on top of that, Roger’s center is not a difficult place to hit homers.
And finally. Jose Baustista, right fielder for the toronto fucking blue jays, doesnt have some special hook up for a new undectable drug. There is too much money to be made if a chemist comes up with an effective drug. He would virtually be forced to sell it to multiple people unless he’s just a huge Jose Bautista fan.
People’s perception of what a power hitter is has be skewed because of the last decade. It is completely normal for 1 or 2 guys to bop 45-50 homers in a season. His batting avg is very high but that will come down. I predict he hits 318 for the season. Ryan Howard hit 50 a few years ago. What’s the big deal? Bautista is just one guy have an insane year and a half. Let him do this for 6 more years and we’ll talk. [/quote]
I see where you are coming from but the surge in numbers is too extreme and too great, yes there are late bloomers but this is one HELL OF A BLOOM, he was a super uitility player for most of his career.
Also, hitting coaches in major league baseball received too much credit and too much blame, they are hitting coaches for guys that already now to hit, they are not the the equal of lets say an offensive coordinator.
I would argue that if every team in the major leagues were to swap hitting coaches with each other, team batting averages would stay fairly the same, these guys just dont have the influence people think they do.
[/quote]
I disagree about hitting coaches. Whether a player knows how to hit is not the point. Theyre coaches, not teachers. A hitting coach is a high profile babysitter. His job is to know the nuances of each his players mechanics and be able to fix them when something goes awry midseason. Hitting coaches dont teach guys to hit. They get guys out of slumps. Granderson and Bautista are rare examples of what a coachs influence can produce, for sure.
Then there are guys like Rudy Jaramillo, known as one of the best hitting coaches ever. With the cubs now, gained notoriety with the rangers. Too many guys have spoken about how he’s saved their careers for him to be just another guy collecting a check.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Quintero and Doumit are now both injured. I’ve also seen my teams catcher and potential ROY JP Arencibia get into a mild plate collision this year. I would bet catchers get into 2-4 each a year ranging from mild to severe.[/quote]
If each catcher gets into 4 collisions a year thats 120 collisions (add a few more for back up atchers). There are over 2400 games played. And I think that’s an over estimation.
Anyway. I dont have stats. I’ll keep an eye out for the amount of collisions, as Im sure the media will as well. I think the last two weeks was unsually high
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Quintero and Doumit are now both injured. I’ve also seen my teams catcher and potential ROY JP Arencibia get into a mild plate collision this year. I would bet catchers get into 2-4 each a year ranging from mild to severe.[/quote]
If each catcher gets into 4 collisions a year thats 120 collisions (add a few more for back up atchers). There are over 2400 games played. And I think that’s an over estimation.
Anyway. I dont have stats. I’ll keep an eye out for the amount of collisions, as Im sure the media will as well. I think the last two weeks was unsually high[/quote]
Your original statement was you’d be shocked if there one a week. 120 collisions is 4.6/week over 26 weeks.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Quintero and Doumit are now both injured. I’ve also seen my teams catcher and potential ROY JP Arencibia get into a mild plate collision this year. I would bet catchers get into 2-4 each a year ranging from mild to severe.[/quote]
If each catcher gets into 4 collisions a year thats 120 collisions (add a few more for back up atchers). There are over 2400 games played. And I think that’s an over estimation.
Anyway. I dont have stats. I’ll keep an eye out for the amount of collisions, as Im sure the media will as well. I think the last two weeks was unsually high[/quote]
Your original statement was you’d be shocked if there one a week. 120 collisions is 4.6/week over 26 weeks. [/quote]
I already said I think youre over estimating.
Wow this thread made some serious progress while I was at work today.
Well played gentleman.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Wow this thread made some serious progress while I was at work today.
Well played gentleman.[/quote]
I say something about the Giants
DB disagrees he explains
I reply I explain
Other people interject their views on the subject with supporters on both sides
DB tells me he holds little value in my opinion.
Typical day in this thread really.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Wow this thread made some serious progress while I was at work today.
Well played gentleman.[/quote]
I say something about the Giants
DB disagrees he explains
I reply I explain
Other people interject their views on the subject with supporters on both sides
DB tells me he holds little value in my opinion.
Typical day in this thread really.[/quote]
and I close by reminding everyone that the Giants are the reigning World Series Champions and have the best starting pitcher, the best closer, a kung fu panda, an old man that wears a thong for good luck.
Also, Sabean’s comments got the attention of Major League Baseball, and executive vice president of baseball operations Joe Torre spoke with Sabean on Friday.
The Giants also issued a statement saying Sabean’s comments were made out of frustration, and the GM was trying to reach Cousins.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
I didn’t say steroids can’t help you hit a ball further - I say that steroids help you build muscle, and being stronger helps you hit a ball further. The fact he isn’t bigger is why I think steroids aren’t the culprit.
There are probably (definitely) illegal supplements out there that help with explosive force moreso than musclebuliding though, and they just aren’t a part of what my simple mind classifies as anabolic steroids.[/quote]
You need to post less about drugs.
Your first sentence is devoid of all logic. Thanks for clarifying that the ACTUAL bottle of oil is not physically hitting the ball, but in fact the player is doing the action. Thanks for that. Re-read what you wrote. It’s self contradictory. Congressmen walk straighter lines than that.
And looking at someones size is irrelevant. I can design a cycle along with a diet that will add no more than 5 pounds of bodyweight but I can guarantee a 50lb jump in bench press in 6 weeks. I can do that in about 60 seconds.
Seriously. You dont know nearly enough about this stuff to have a valid opinion. And that’s not an insult. Knowledge of biochemistry is not common education. The problem is that too many people have thoguhts about this stuff based solely what they hear on tv[/quote]
I know that I’m not knowledgeable about that stuff - thought I prefaced myself by saying that, but looks like I didn’t. I was actually hoping you would weigh in on it to shed some light on it for me. I should have just said that.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Do you watch a lot of baseball? By a lot I mean 90% of the games you have access to on cable. You dont seem to comprehend how often players hook slide to score. Out of all the times there is a play or potential play at the plate, a collision is the huge minority of the results. I dont need statistics on this. I watch a lot of baseball. Guys only barrel a catcher over when it’s absolutely necessary. For good reason too, there is a huge injury risk for the runner. It just so happens that the runner in this case is some no name journeyman that doesnt give a shit if he hurts himself because he probably doesnt have a career ahead of him anyway.
You make it sound like collisions at the plate are an inevitable part of baseball. In reality, collisions are a rare occurance. There are about 90-100 games played per week. If there was 1 collision per week I’d be shocked. [/quote]
I watch a good amount of baseball. No, not 90% that are available. The reality though is that there is no play at the plate for the vast majority of runs scored. On the rare occasion there is a throw home, it usually isn’t accurate enough for a catcher to successfully block it.
The bottom line is I don’t think he intentionally injured Posey I think he just made a horribly stupid decision.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Wow this thread made some serious progress while I was at work today.
Well played gentleman.[/quote]
I say something about the Giants
DB disagrees he explains
I reply I explain
Other people interject their views on the subject with supporters on both sides
DB tells me he holds little value in my opinion.
Typical day in this thread really.[/quote]
and I close by reminding everyone that the Giants are the reigning World Series Champions and have the best starting pitcher, the best closer, a kung fu panda, an old man that wears a thong for good luck.
Also, Sabean’s comments got the attention of Major League Baseball, and executive vice president of baseball operations Joe Torre spoke with Sabean on Friday.
The Giants also issued a statement saying Sabean’s comments were made out of frustration, and the GM was trying to reach Cousins.[/quote]
Halladay was traded to the Giants?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Cuban32 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Cuban32 wrote:
You really think he figured it out at age 30-31? That a hitting coach figured out a secret. Come on dude.
[/quote]
Kevin Long adjusted Granderson’s hand position in his stance. He’s now hitting homers at a similar clip to bautista. The adjustment was made in August of last season. Look at grandersons numbers from then until now. About 35 homers in 90 games.
Is he doing it too? Hitting coaches can fix things. There are multiple examples of late bloomers. And there is also no evidence to suggest that Bautista will continue this pace for 8 more years, like Bonds was able to with steroids. 30 years old is the prime of a player’s career.
I know for a fact you dont watch even half of the blue jays games. You dont see the pitches he’s hitting out. I dont watch many either, but I see some of his at bats on mlb extra innings. He bangs every single mistake pitch. AND on top of that, Roger’s center is not a difficult place to hit homers.
And finally. Jose Baustista, right fielder for the toronto fucking blue jays, doesnt have some special hook up for a new undectable drug. There is too much money to be made if a chemist comes up with an effective drug. He would virtually be forced to sell it to multiple people unless he’s just a huge Jose Bautista fan.
People’s perception of what a power hitter is has be skewed because of the last decade. It is completely normal for 1 or 2 guys to bop 45-50 homers in a season. His batting avg is very high but that will come down. I predict he hits 318 for the season. Ryan Howard hit 50 a few years ago. What’s the big deal? Bautista is just one guy have an insane year and a half. Let him do this for 6 more years and we’ll talk. [/quote]
I see where you are coming from but the surge in numbers is too extreme and too great, yes there are late bloomers but this is one HELL OF A BLOOM, he was a super uitility player for most of his career.
Also, hitting coaches in major league baseball received too much credit and too much blame, they are hitting coaches for guys that already now to hit, they are not the the equal of lets say an offensive coordinator.
I would argue that if every team in the major leagues were to swap hitting coaches with each other, team batting averages would stay fairly the same, these guys just dont have the influence people think they do.
[/quote]
I disagree about hitting coaches. Whether a player knows how to hit is not the point. Theyre coaches, not teachers. A hitting coach is a high profile babysitter. His job is to know the nuances of each his players mechanics and be able to fix them when something goes awry midseason. Hitting coaches dont teach guys to hit. They get guys out of slumps. Granderson and Bautista are rare examples of what a coachs influence can produce, for sure.
Then there are guys like Rudy Jaramillo, known as one of the best hitting coaches ever. With the cubs now, gained notoriety with the rangers. Too many guys have spoken about how he’s saved their careers for him to be just another guy collecting a check.
[/quote]
This Bautista argument is so dumb. There were players long before steroids were around that had huge power spikes at some point in their career. Ever look at Roger Maris’s career numbers?
The past 2 nights on the highlight reel there have been 6 plays at the plate. Every person slid feet first. The catcher was completely blocking the plate in 4 of them.
Those are just the plays that had impact on the game to warrant a 10 second clip on the tv show. There have to have been more and it’s safe to assume there werent any collisions.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
The past 2 nights on the highlight reel there have been 6 plays at the plate. Every person slid feet first. The catcher was completely blocking the plate in 4 of them.
Those are just the plays that had impact on the game to warrant a 10 second clip on the tv show. There have to have been more and it’s safe to assume there werent any collisions. [/quote]
Make that decision after a week to 10 days of paying attention. If you had chosen to look out for plate collisions on May 26 and May 27 you would have had completely different results.
Lets not forget the current climate in baseball after that injury. I doubt many players will try to make hard contact with the catcher in times they normally would until things cool off. Definitely not while it’s a hot issue and there’s been 2-3 injured catchers recently.
But the general consensus in baseball from what I’ve read is they oppose a rule change.
A handful have gone as far as asserting Posey was responsible for his injury.
Johnny Bench:
?Buster is laying in front of home plate, and it?s like having a disabled car in the middle of a four-lane highway. You?re just going to get smacked,? said Bench.
He added: ?Show them the plate. You can always catch the ball and step, or step and catch the ball, as long as you?ve got the runner on the ground. And if you have the runner on the ground, there?s less chance of any severe collision.?
On the hand, manager Bruce Bochy, a former catcher, took exception to Bench?s remarks, but did acknowledge that Posey was not well positioned in that fateful play.
?Buster wasn?t in great position, I agree, because it was a short hop and he dropped down on both knees to get it,? Bochy said via the Chronicle.
In the same report, Bochy also noted the preference for a catcher is to ?keep the left leg up. He?s still going to be vulnerable because he?s trying to catch an in-between hop, the toughest play in baseball. Eventually, you go to make a sweep tag.?
So I caught a few innings of the STL vs CHC game and I have to say Lance Berkman looked great.
Anyone else surprised by this? After watching him play for the Yankees last year I would’ve guessed he didn’t have much left in the tank.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
The past 2 nights on the highlight reel there have been 6 plays at the plate. Every person slid feet first. The catcher was completely blocking the plate in 4 of them.
Those are just the plays that had impact on the game to warrant a 10 second clip on the tv show. There have to have been more and it’s safe to assume there werent any collisions. [/quote]
Make that decision after a week to 10 days of paying attention. If you had chosen to look out for plate collisions on May 26 and May 27 you would have had completely different results.
Lets not forget the current climate in baseball after that injury. I doubt many players will try to make hard contact with the catcher in times they normally would until things cool off. Definitely not while it’s a hot issue and there’s been 2-3 injured catchers recently.
[/quote]
No, I wouldnt have had different results, as collisions did not happen in the past two days.
My point was to show how sliding, EVEN WHEN THE BALL BEATS THE RUNNER, is the norm.
And that part about the climate of baseball is absurd. This isnt a political race or celebrities acting like fools. PLayers dont give a shit about the media or public opinion. It is their job to win games. And barreling into the catcher is not against the rules. A player is absolutely not thinking about media backlash when rounding third as the outfielder is making a throw. Thinking the players care about that is a crazy premise.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
The past 2 nights on the highlight reel there have been 6 plays at the plate. Every person slid feet first. The catcher was completely blocking the plate in 4 of them.
Those are just the plays that had impact on the game to warrant a 10 second clip on the tv show. There have to have been more and it’s safe to assume there werent any collisions. [/quote]
Make that decision after a week to 10 days of paying attention. If you had chosen to look out for plate collisions on May 26 and May 27 you would have had completely different results.
Lets not forget the current climate in baseball after that injury. I doubt many players will try to make hard contact with the catcher in times they normally would until things cool off. Definitely not while it’s a hot issue and there’s been 2-3 injured catchers recently.
[/quote]
No, I wouldnt have had different results, as collisions did not happen in the past two days.
My point was to show how sliding, EVEN WHEN THE BALL BEATS THE RUNNER, is the norm.
And that part about the climate of baseball is absurd. This isnt a political race or celebrities acting like fools. PLayers dont give a shit about the media or public opinion. It is their job to win games. And barreling into the catcher is not against the rules. A player is absolutely not thinking about media backlash when rounding third as the outfielder is making a throw. Thinking the players care about that is a crazy premise. [/quote]
I don’t disagree it’s the norm. But when there are 6 plays at the plate in 2 days (roughly 21 a week at that rate) I don’t think it’s unfair to say 1 in every 21 plays at the plate result in a collision (varying severities).
Why would you consider it a crazy premise?
People have made DEATH THREATS to Cousins and his family. Are you telling if you were a Major Leaguer death threats towards you and your family would not affect how you play the game?
Give me a break.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
The past 2 nights on the highlight reel there have been 6 plays at the plate. Every person slid feet first. The catcher was completely blocking the plate in 4 of them.
Those are just the plays that had impact on the game to warrant a 10 second clip on the tv show. There have to have been more and it’s safe to assume there werent any collisions. [/quote]
Make that decision after a week to 10 days of paying attention. If you had chosen to look out for plate collisions on May 26 and May 27 you would have had completely different results.
Lets not forget the current climate in baseball after that injury. I doubt many players will try to make hard contact with the catcher in times they normally would until things cool off. Definitely not while it’s a hot issue and there’s been 2-3 injured catchers recently.
[/quote]
No, I wouldnt have had different results, as collisions did not happen in the past two days.
My point was to show how sliding, EVEN WHEN THE BALL BEATS THE RUNNER, is the norm.
And that part about the climate of baseball is absurd. This isnt a political race or celebrities acting like fools. PLayers dont give a shit about the media or public opinion. It is their job to win games. And barreling into the catcher is not against the rules. A player is absolutely not thinking about media backlash when rounding third as the outfielder is making a throw. Thinking the players care about that is a crazy premise. [/quote]
I don’t disagree it’s the norm. But when there are 6 plays at the plate in 2 days (roughly 21 a week at that rate) I don’t think it’s unfair to say 1 in every 21 plays at the plate result in a collision (varying severities).
Why would you consider it a crazy premise?
People have made DEATH THREATS to Cousins and his family. Are you telling if you were a Major Leaguer death threats towards you and your family would not affect how you play the game?
Give me a break.[/quote]
Asinine logic. None of the players I saw this weekend received death threats. They are getting paid to do a job. Not worry about whether fans have a hard-on for a star player. The fact of the matter is that if it wasnt Posey involved far less people would have cared and certainly no death threats would be written. Barry Bonds got death threats for over 2 years. Did he changed ANYTHING about the way he played the game?
No break will be given to you. You are wrong here.