I want to jump into this thread, but it’s been so long since I could trouble myself to give more than a cursory fuck about the local baseball franchise (other than a few short months last year) that I don’t even remember how to talk about the game. I feel like the drunk chick at a Super Bowl party.
Help?
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I want to jump into this thread, but it’s been so long since I could trouble myself to give more than a cursory fuck about the local baseball franchise (other than a few short months last year) that I don’t even remember how to talk about the game. I feel like the drunk chick at a Super Bowl party.
Help?[/quote]
Fuck the Steelers.
Just kidding, Steel. Sort of. Actually, I’m not kidding at all.
But that’s neither here nor there. Shit, your Pirates (I assume you’re a Pirates fan and not a Phillies fan) looked really good this weekend against the Giants. Although the Giants have been making everyone look good for the last week.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Just kidding, Steel. Sort of. Actually, I’m not kidding at all.
But that’s neither here nor there. Shit, your Pirates (I assume you’re a Pirates fan and not a Phillies fan) looked really good this weekend against the Giants. Although the Giants have been making everyone look good for the last week.[/quote]
I am a Pirates fan. I despise all things Philly.
Yes the Bucs have looked great the last two months really. Best record in MLB since May 15 or so. Ever since the bats woke up they’ve been on a tear. It’s been a joy to watch. So refreshing after nearly 20 years of garbage.
What is up with Lincecum? He has somehow been making everyone he faces look like the next Ted Williams, which is odd considering I thought he was supposed to be really good or something. Just an off year? Or was that one article I read about him full of shit?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Oh and if this doesn’t kill your belief in RBI being a good stat nothing will.
Colby Rasmus has more RBI than:
Joey Votto
Mike Trout
Carlos Ruiz
Melky Cabrera
Jason Heyward
Aaron Hill
Paul Konerko
Bryce Harper[/quote]
I think you can take any stat and find an oulier here or there. most of the time, a guy that finishes the year with 100+ RBI probably had a pretty damn good year. Joe Mauer is hitting .324 and has a better obp than all of those players (minus Votto) including Hamilton, McCutchen, Ortiz and more, but I would hardly say he has been more productive. I also would not say Rasmus is having a bad year by any means.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Just kidding, Steel. Sort of. Actually, I’m not kidding at all.
But that’s neither here nor there. Shit, your Pirates (I assume you’re a Pirates fan and not a Phillies fan) looked really good this weekend against the Giants. Although the Giants have been making everyone look good for the last week.[/quote]
I am a Pirates fan. I despise all things Philly.
Yes the Bucs have looked great the last two months really. Best record in MLB since May 15 or so. Ever since the bats woke up they’ve been on a tear. It’s been a joy to watch. So refreshing after nearly 20 years of garbage.
What is up with Lincecum? He has somehow been making everyone he faces look like the next Ted Williams, which is odd considering I thought he was supposed to be really good or something. Just an off year? Or was that one article I read about him full of shit?[/quote]
Honestly, I think the problem with him is something that a trainer like Eric Cressey could at least help address. He needs to get stronger and more explosive overall, but with a moderate weight gain (which for him is probably only 5-10 lbs). At the same time, he needs to do this while not only maintaining his current flexibility, but improving it. Especially in the hips and the scapula area. I think he probably has a bit of a degenerative condition in his shoulder that may not cause pain but is leading to weakness. This could be addressed in, oh…I don’t know, about three dozen different ways without compromising his ability to pitch.
He should also be running more long sprints, rather than just straight jogging for a few miles. That will build up strength and stamina in his legs better than running back and forth on the warning track. I don’t know if he does any of this or not, but the fact that he’s had these 30-40 lb weight fluctuations going into and coming out of spring training the last couple of years, weight that was put on by simply eating a bunch of shit, tells me that he doesn’t take his conditioning seriously enough to be dedicating himself to the kind of shit I’m talking about.
It’s either that or he learns how to simplify his windup so he can repeat it more often. He can succeed with the stuff he features even now, but he has to have pin-point control with it, something he can’t consistently do with a windup as complex as his. So it’s either simplify it or try to regain a couple miles an hour on the fastball through proper conditioning in the hopes that it will cancel out the lack of great command. It used to before. I don’t know if he’ll ever get back to even 93-94 consistently now though. This might be a problem that he can’t properly address until the offseason.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Oh and if this doesn’t kill your belief in RBI being a good stat nothing will.
Colby Rasmus has more RBI than:
Joey Votto
Mike Trout
Carlos Ruiz
Melky Cabrera
Jason Heyward
Aaron Hill
Paul Konerko
Bryce Harper[/quote]
I think you can take any stat and find an oulier here or there. most of the time, a guy that finishes the year with 100+ RBI probably had a pretty damn good year. Joe Mauer is hitting .324 and has a better obp than all of those players (minus Votto) including Hamilton, McCutchen, Ortiz and more, but I would hardly say he has been more productive. I also would not say Rasmus is having a bad year by any means. [/quote]
Agreed. Raj, you’ve pumped Rasmus up as a guy who, if he can get some consistency, is a legit threat. Well, here he is starting to put some things together for a good stretch and you point to him as an example of a BAD hitter disproving the value of RBI’s? Regardless, like Maiden said, Rasmus is hardly an outlier. The fact is that even an average player isn’t an outlier in baseball.
You should know, Raj, that sabermetrics acknowledges that a distribution of MLB talent does not follow a standard bell-curve distribution; rather, it is skewed to the right and “average” players are actually quite a commodity, since so few are above that level as compared to those below it. So Rasmus, who I would say is above average (even if only slightly) is FAR from the correct player to hold up to make whatever failed point you were trying to stumble upon.
I think the more telling statistic is batting average with runners in scoring position (BARISP). But I don’t think you’ll find guys in the top of that category who played the entire year who don"t have high RBI totals, and vice versa. I don’t really care about how many opportunities a player has as much as what he does in whatever opportunities he does get. Actually, the RBI statistic is really only relevant when comparing players who both bat in the same spot in the order for the most part. It means nothing when comparing a batter who routinely bats 2nd as opposed to a cleanup hitter. The reality is that no one statistic will quantify all you want to know without any bias.
I suppose the only real stats that matter are runs created and outs accumulated (by pitchers), since baseball really just boils down to who can get outs quicker and who can score more runs. It’s all about runs and outs. A player’s value to his team must ultimately be measured in these terms over a fairly large sample size, perhaps two full years at an absolute minimum.
Welp, 2nd place isn’t too shabby.
I can take Cano’s goose egg as a consolation prize
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
What do you guys think of Reggie Jackson’s comments in Sports Illustrated? What has caused a stir (no pun intended) are his comments about the Hall of Fame. He said that players like Don Sutton, Bert Blyeleven, Phil Niekro, JIm Rice and a couple others (I think he mentioned Santo as well) don’t belong because they weren’t good enough and that the Hall has cheapened itself by allowing these sorts of players in it. He also said that anyone attached to steroids don’t belong because their numbers are tainted by cheating.
I agree with the first part wholeheartedly. I’m sorry, but a player like Don Sutton doesn’t belong in the same Hall as a player like Koufax. Fuck the career numbers some of these guys have accumulated from sheer longevity. Longevity is one thing, but I don’t think it’s enough to simply last for a long time if you weren’t an absolutely dominant player during any of those years, or perhaps for just a few of them. I don’t know, it’s hard to put into words, but certain players just don’t pass the smell test. Maybe they should have a Hall of Fame with multiple levels, like Olympic medals. Mays, Ruth, Aaron, Musial, Gehrig, Mantle, Griffey, Maddux and the like would be Gold Hall of Famers, guys like Campanella, Whitey Ford, Bob Feller, Ralph Kiner, George Brett, Mike Schmidt, Roberto Alomar, Robin Roberts, and so on would be SIlver, and guys like who Jackson mentioned would be Bronze.
The other thing I don’t get is why players can consistently be voted on year after year without making it. You’re either a Hall of Famer or you’re not and if you aren’t voted in during your first year of eligibility, after 5 years to evaluate your career, what the fuck could possibly happen that would justify your inclusion ten years later that didn’t already hold true during your first year of eligibility? All that happens is that the players who miss out every year but come relatively close stay in the national conscious for so long that people start voting for them out of sympathy rather than out of merit, especially when certain supporters of theirs practically start a PR campaign to get them in.
As far as the steroid thing goes, I totally disagree with Jackson. Yes, steroids are cheating and they effect performance. But the same thing could be said about the use of greenies back in the day. Many current Hall of Famers used them, and they constitute cheating under the rules the same as steroids. It isn’t for the Baseball Writer’s Association to decide which performance-enhancing drugs have what impact on players’ numbers and all that. Cheating is cheating, and breaking the rules is breaking the rules. The fact is that the steroid era also saw a huge increase in players using strength-training without steroid use to get stronger. So I don’t think that players who used steroids necessarily had any larger advantage over their peers than players who used greenies years ago had over THEIR peers.
Now, I understand that players 30-50 years ago didn’t get caught for using amphetamines, but their use was still against the rules and there are numerous players attached to their use in the Hall of Fame. That’s no different than players who have been attached to steroid use but never officially “caught” by MLB. As for the ones who WERE caught, that only happened as a result of a major FBI investigation set into motion for reason wholly unrelated to baseball. Hell, by Jackson’s standards, if he isn’t hypocritical, Gaylord Perry should be out as well since he was a notorious doctorer of the ball when he pitched. He was caught and he also admitted to as much in a biography of his during his career, although he has subsequently claimed that he was exaggerating quite a bit for the mental effect it had on opposing hitters. But it was still cheating under the rules of baseball at the time.[/quote]
The only thing controversial about what Jackson said is the fact that he said those things about a star player on a team he is a special advisor to (whatever that is.) I agree with what Jackson said, A-Rod’s stats are tainted and everybody knows it, but it did no good for Jackson to make those obvious comments about him and cause problems.
I also do agree that some of these guys shouldn’t be in the hall. Baseball has the best Hall of Fame still, but when above average players become hall of famers it lowers the bar more and more. Hall of Fame should be reserved for great players only.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Agreed. Raj, you’ve pumped Rasmus up as a guy who, if he can get some consistency, is a legit threat. Well, here he is starting to put some things together for a good stretch and you point to him as an example of a BAD hitter disproving the value of RBI’s? Regardless, like Maiden said, Rasmus is hardly an outlier. The fact is that even an average player isn’t an outlier in baseball.[/quote]
Not that he is bad, but his performance isn’t anywhere near Votto’s this season. How can someone who gets on base half the time have less RBI than a guy who started the season with 6 terrible weeks? Or is it just RBI is a Really Bad Indicator?
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I think the more telling statistic is batting average with runners in scoring position (BARISP). [/quote]
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
But I don’t think you’ll find guys in the top of that category who played the entire year who don"t have high RBI totals, and vice versa. I don’t really care about how many opportunities a player has as much as what he does in whatever opportunities he does get. [/quote]
So raw RBI total is pointless. Jays have a top 5 offense, Rasmus will always get a ton of RBI opportunities.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Actually, the RBI statistic is really only relevant when comparing players who both bat in the same spot in the order for the most part. It means nothing when comparing a batter who routinely bats 2nd as opposed to a cleanup hitter. The reality is that no one statistic will quantify all you want to know without any bias.
I suppose the only real stats that matter are runs created and outs accumulated (by pitchers), since baseball really just boils down to who can get outs quicker and who can score more runs. It’s all about runs and outs. A player’s value to his team must ultimately be measured in these terms over a fairly large sample size, perhaps two full years at an absolute minimum.[/quote]
Cain over R.A. Dickey are they insane!? R.A. is having one of the best seasons of the last 5 years.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Cain over R.A. Dickey are they insane!? R.A. is having one of the best seasons of the last 5 years. [/quote]
I think this makes sense from a purely strategic standpoint. Cain will be throwing to Posey for starters, and I think it would be better to sandwich a pitcher with Dickey’s arsenal between two hard throwers. Cain doesn’t throw gas by any means, but given that some of the AL’s starters will get multiple at-bats, the discrepancy between speeds that they’ll see will be magnified much more if they see Cain at 90-94, then Dickey at about 80 and then someone like Strasburg or Gio Gonzalez at either 98 or 95 from the left side in Gonzalez’ case.
Dickey deserves to start it, but Cain is having a great year as well. I’m not sure when Dickey last threw, but Cain will be making the start on regular rest and that may have been a factor as well. That and the fact that Posey apparently has never caught a knuckleballer at any level. Actually, that makes me think they might move Dickey back a little further so he throws to Molina instead. I assume Molina has experience catching knuckleballs at some point in his career. Who knows though? LaRussa’s been known for some real headscratchers from time to time.
Ahahahahaha, nice job Verlander! Go NL!
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Ahahahahaha, nice job Verlander! Go NL![/quote]
Hahaha! I love it! I don’t care how badly Bautista might have misplayed that ball down the line, I’m glad to see Sandoval be the one who gets the big hit. If someone had to do it I was pulling for Sandoval, and partially because I’m a Giants fan. I thought some of the criticism directed at him was unwarranted since he had nothing to do with the voting process and all that. He sure fucking misplayed that slow grounder to his left though. That’s been pretty typical of him this year.
Cain sure dodged a bullet with that ball off Hamilton’s bat. It was nice to see him dispose of Bautista by simply challenging him with 93 and then 95 mph fastballs up. He has that sort of sneaky fastball that he’s always had reach-back velocity with up above the belt. I’d like to see a little more of it in the second inning instead of so many cutters and changeups.
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Ahahahahaha, nice job Verlander! Go NL![/quote]
The NL-AL home run score was also pretty funny. 53-21 in Favour of AL
Melky! Melky! Melky!
I hope the NL really starts piling it on here.
Now it’s a rout. With the great pitching the NL has, they should easily take it.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Ahahahahaha, nice job Verlander! Go NL![/quote]
The NL-AL home run score was also pretty funny. 53-21 in Favour of AL[/quote]
Meaningless victory, perhaps even Pyrrhic.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Ahahahahaha, nice job Verlander! Go NL![/quote]
The NL-AL home run score was also pretty funny. 53-21 in Favour of AL[/quote]
Meaningless victory, perhaps even Pyrrhic.[/quote]
lol
And where would this game rank in importance? A cunt hair shy of meaningless?