[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…I am responsible for my life, and everything that happens during that life; that means responsability for my actions…
[/quote]
Why would responsibility for one’s actions be of any import at all in a purposeless life?[/quote]
…because, my dimwitted friend, life has no purpose one is free to bestowe life any purpose one likes…
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…I am responsible for my life, and everything that happens during that life; that means responsability for my actions…
[/quote]
Why would responsibility for one’s actions be of any import at all in a purposeless life?[/quote]
…because, my dimwitted friend, life has no purpose one is free to bestowe life any purpose one likes…
[/quote]
So it’s kinda like you’re your own god or sumthin, huh?[/quote]
…no, nothing like that, actually…
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
You, yourself, stated the omnipotent, omniscient qualities that God would possess if He existed. Well, why would an omnipotent, omniscient being just create a single string of possibilities for his creation? He could have created a universe where absolutely every possibility is contained, based upon (limiting this to humans for now) the choices that each human makes. He can at once see the outcome of every single of the infinite variations and possibilities that could occur, but we, as human, are granted the free will to follow our own path.
This really doesn’t take that much extra thought. You are like the hare who takes a nap midway through the race with the tortoise. Check that. An angry, napping hare.[/quote]
I, again, fail to see how this changes anything.[/quote]
You keep saying things like this. Just because legendaryblaze “fails to see” doesn’t make your position any more valid or Cortes’ point any less valid.
You seem to have backed off your position that it IS destiny to a “destiny of sorts”. Why? Maybe you don’t fail to see as much as you let on.
[quote]In universe X, he will make choice A.
In universe Y, he will make choice B.
In any case, God knows before hand, the choice that person will make in that universe.[/quote]
Again, simply knowing action and controlling or laying out action are two different things.
Also, you still haven’t answered the question I’ve asked you a few times. Would you agree that no one can fully understand an omnipotent being? God or other. A simple yes or no will do.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…because, my dimwitted friend, life has no purpose one is free to bestowe life any purpose one likes…
[/quote]
So it’s kinda like you’re your own god or sumthin, huh?[/quote]
…no, nothing like that, actually…
[/quote]
You’ll have to explain because if one has set himself up in the purpose bestowing business he is laying claim to things reminiscent of what God has been known to do.[/quote]
…i don’t care about what god has been known to do. That’s your shtick, remember?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…I am responsible for my life, and everything that happens during that life; that means responsability for my actions…
[/quote]
Why would responsibility for one’s actions be of any import at all in a purposeless life?[/quote]
…because, my dimwitted friend, life has no purpose one is free to bestowe life any purpose one likes…
[/quote]
So it’s kinda like you’re your own god or sumthin, huh?[/quote]
…no, nothing like that, actually…
[/quote]
You’ll have to explain because if one has set himself up in the purpose bestowing business he is laying claim to things reminiscent of what God has been known to do.[/quote]
What?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…I am responsible for my life, and everything that happens during that life; that means responsability for my actions…
[/quote]
Why would responsibility for one’s actions be of any import at all in a purposeless life?[/quote]
…because, my dimwitted friend, life has no purpose one is free to bestowe life any purpose one likes…
[/quote]
So it’s kinda like you’re your own god or sumthin, huh?[/quote]
…no, nothing like that, actually…
[/quote]
You’ll have to explain because if one has set himself up in the purpose bestowing business he is laying claim to things reminiscent of what God has been known to do.[/quote]
…i don’t care what god has been known to do. That is your shtick, remember?
[quote]cueball wrote:
You keep saying things like this. Just because legendaryblaze “fails to see” doesn’t make your position any more valid or Cortes’ point any less valid.[/quote]
What I mean by that is why do you bring up these “points” as if it changes the original argument?
Just my wording. Usually, when one says “destiny” it refers to a very awesome event, like becoming the ONE (neo-matrix or king of england, etc), whereas here I refer to it in a mundane manner. Such as deciding if I should have chicken or fish for dinner.
[quote]cueball wrote:
Again, simply knowing action and controlling or laying out action are two different things.[/quote]
No, they aren’t. If you were to create the universe and you knew what actions would be committed because of that creation, how is that any different then setting those actions in stone?
God knows everything. So he knows what choices I will make before I make them. There is no free will because regardless of what concept I have of choice, it has already all been decided. He created time, space, the way my brain functions, and all the events that will shape my life. Hence, every choice I make, up to date, has been predetermined by him.
Whether there is 1 universe or an infinite amount if completely irrelevant, because he would have had to invent it/them. So the same rules apply.
[quote]cueball wrote:Also, you still haven’t answered the question I’ve asked you a few times. Would you agree that no one can fully understand an omnipotent being? God or other. A simple yes or no will do.
[/quote]
You can’t understand some humans and most animals, so yes, I guess, you would not be able to understand an omnipotent being.
However, I like how you imply that rational thought cannot be used because our way of thinking is not rational enough. God is so much more rational, that no human could understand.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]cueball wrote:
You keep saying things like this. Just because legendaryblaze “fails to see” doesn’t make your position any more valid or Cortes’ point any less valid.[/quote]
What I mean by that is why do you bring up these “points” as if it changes the original argument?
Just my wording. Usually, when one says “destiny” it refers to a very awesome event, like becoming the ONE (neo-matrix or king of england, etc), whereas here I refer to it in a mundane manner. Such as deciding if I should have chicken or fish for dinner.
[quote]cueball wrote:
Again, simply knowing action and controlling or laying out action are two different things.[/quote]
No, they aren’t. If you were to create the universe and you knew what actions would be committed because of that creation, how is that any different then setting those actions in stone?
God knows everything. So he knows what choices I will make before I make them. There is no free will because regardless of what concept I have of choice, it has already all been decided. He created time, space, the way my brain functions, and all the events that will shape my life. Hence, every choice I make, up to date, has been predetermined by him.
Whether there is 1 universe or an infinite amount if completely irrelevant, because he would have had to invent it/them. So the same rules apply.
[quote]cueball wrote:Also, you still haven’t answered the question I’ve asked you a few times. Would you agree that no one can fully understand an omnipotent being? God or other. A simple yes or no will do.
[/quote]
You can’t understand some humans and most animals, so yes, I guess, you would not be able to understand an omnipotent being.
However, I like how you imply that rational thought cannot be used because our way of thinking is not rational enough. God is so much more rational, that no human could understand.
[/quote]
LB, you’re struggling with the ideas of free will and predestination and such but remember you’re not alone. Millions before you have grappled with it too. It’s not an easy thing to tidy away in one’s mind. There is an element of faith involved. Always has been. Always will.
There comes a point where you have to admit your (and mine) analytical but finite mind isn’t going to get a handle on it.
FWIW, C.S. Lewis did quite the job exploring these concepts. If you’re truly hungry to understand I would suggest reading some of his work. If you’re lazy and want to dismiss it out of hand because it doesn’t “come to you” right away then, yes, it is much easier to assert, “It doesn’t make sense to me right now so it must be wrong and I must be right to insist God shouldn’t have made it so complicated in this regard.”[/quote]
Thanks, Push. MUCH more succinct than I what I was attempting to convey.