[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’d say atheistic atrocities are compounded by the pridefullness of atheists who trivialize the oppressed and murdered, by denying why they were oppressed and murdered under their banner.
[/quote]
Atheist system/people (Soviets, China, etc.) by their very nature devalue the human being. The next step of destroying life by the millions is merely a bureaucratic move. [/quote]
That is simply not true. A religion because it believes in an after life actually has less incentive to minimise suffering in the here and now.
If I let you suffer now, the suffering is good for your soul therefore I am helping you. (Mother Theressa had logic that ran along those lines)
If I go and blow myself up taking with me the enemies of my God then I will get my reward in the afterlife.
Neither of those positions would happen in an atheist society where the greater good of the community is all that should be important. (I know that the greater good argument has been horrifically misapplied however it is not the argument that is wrong.)[/quote]
Mother Theresa’s logic did not run along those lines - where do you get this stuff from? She worked her entire life to help the poor and sick. What she said (and I think this is what you’re referring to) about suffering is: that we can all bear suffering, even the worst suffering imaginable, if we realize that the suffering here on earth will seem but a minor inconvenience, like a brief stay in an uncomfortable motel, compared to the blessedness of heaven.
Her engagement in and with the world and its suffering - like the work of everyone in the Church that precedes and follows her - was only deepened by her faith. Quite the opposite, in fact, to what you’re suggesting.
The Church has performed more compassionate acts than any other group of people on earth. Ever. Bar none. And its members do so because they have the strength to do so; because they have a standard by which to compare present reality; because they are compelled to do so by love. The existence of heaven and heavenly things only furthers and deepens our engagement in the world.
I’d be glad to argue this^ - I do think you’re extremely confused on this matter.
But that’s another topic: what I was saying is that atheist peoples/systems fundamentally devalue the human being. Do I really have to argue that Communism does so? That Communist regimes have not only done so - but thereby proceed in a kind of nightmare logic to deciminate huge mases of people? Do I really have to argue that?
[/quote]
Mother Theressa shunned modern medicine for the people in her care preferring to keep them in a state of suffering that was conducive to the atmosphere she wanted her Nuns to live in. She also supported some pretty horrific regimes and embezzled funds. Not the Saint that the Catholic Church would like to paint her to be.
Large scale communism I agree has some pretty big issues but I don’t think any system can devalue the individual more than the Catholic Church which claims that we are all scum, inherently sinners and should writhe on the ground in joy that God cares enough to give us diseases, hardships and pain saying thank you master, give me more master like some sort of Sado Masochist being spanked by his Dominatrix.[/quote]
That’s a pretty extraordinary claim - will you please provide evidence and - especially - context for that? The medicines - I have no idea. The horrific regimes/embezzling funds - I’ll bet she was trying in very difficult circumstances to care for the sick and needy. The world is a complicated place and sometimes we have to do things that serve a greater good. Anyway, I’ll await the evidence.
As Brother Chris said, she isn’t a Saint. Even Saints, however, are sinners, and are imperfect.
The Catholic Church is the first institution in the world that made the extraordinary claim that each and every human being is precious. More precious than any of us can imagine. Ummmm…I’m not sure about how that squares with the idea that it also thinks we’re scum.
You obviously don’t understand what is meant by a fallen human nature and sin. Too bad - you might actually find it extremely interesting and enlightening.
I guess you’re counting on the “invisible ignorance” loophole. LOL!
[/quote]
I don’t know about the claims of embezzling and corruption, but I do know this - a large number of the problems plaguing Africa could be solved if the population practiced birth control. Yet the Catholic Church still clings to their Byzantine notion that birth control is wrong and as a result is fighting a losing battle against poverty in Africa.
BTW - I thought JP II made Theresa a saint? If not, then I recall that she was put on a fast-track to sainthood.