[quote]Sloth wrote:
Yep, I am going to tell you that. We do not pray through them. We show our respects and honor great people of the Church. And we do use earthly items in our observances, because well, we have earthly bodies and senses. Man builds statues to remember, recall, and honor their respected. >>>[/quote Forget statues and relics, if I was wrong not one family would feel the want to own a camera, even. >>>[/quote] I just quoted you the official canons from your greatest of all ecumenical councils wherein it is clearly stated that the prostration of oneself before relics refers you to the prototype it represents. Whatever else YOU may do, I’m reporting what THAT says. AND the reason you give for using them is exactly the reason NOT TO. We are commanded to live not according to the flesh, but to worship God in spirit and truth. That’s the point. Man does indeed build all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons and always has. Look brother, No protestant claims great benefits from God through photography. If they did, I would write the first piece condemning them as idolaters and calling them to repentance. [quote]Sloth wrote: Protestants wouldn’t clutch the bible to them while praying. Yes, the bible is an earthly object, yet protestants in their meditations will often kneel with it firmly grasped in hand, even kissing it. Do they pray through the bible? The physical earthly book before them? Do protestants despise Passion Plays, the nativity scene during Christmas, the fish/Jesus Icon?[/quote] I don’t personally do passion plays, christmas, nativity scenes or Jesus fish. However, protestants who do participate in these things do not do them as part of their formal service to God and heaven as catholics do with their saints and relics. Also, the bible is the written word of God, but even then none of the inadvertent motions you cite are even vaguely equivalent to the codified and allegedly efficacious dogma of Rome. [quote]Sloth wrote:I’ll play the game, too. I will refuse to accept what is told to me about the private inner thought of the protestant, by the protestant. I will instead claim that they believe they are praying THROUGH the bible, a physical object, to God. I, yes I, will determine the inner thoughts of the Protestant. There, now we both claim psychic powers. It’s an unfair advantage the protestant makes use of, but I intend to borrow it.[/quote] I answered this already, but will here add that if you are NOT using these “holy” objects to “refer” you to their prototypes then you stand condemned by your own church. I’m not addicted to the phraseology of “praying through” either. Call it… whatever, it’s using physical objects in the worship of/prayer to (ok, dulia) dead people.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
<<< How are untold volumes written on Adam Smith? Lincoln? Washington? Does the protestant object? But, whole volumes can’t be written about the most blessed of all women? I don’t even understand the line of thinking. Does the American evangelical raise up the founding fathers, and other Americans figures, as people to be honored and respected in word and image, while arguing that the blessed of all women is nothing more that a passing moment in history? Yikes.[/quote] You really need get this squared away in yer mind once and for all. Nothing in any way related to historical figures, no matter how great and significant has anything to do with sacred service to God or heaven. No evangelical I have ever known would prostrate themselves before or kiss ANY piece of historical Americana while talking to a very dead Samuel Adams. I do hereby formally denounce this completely non existent straw man in advance just in case any Christian falls into it in the future. Your church holds under pain of condemnation that these practices are to be upheld as pleasing service to God and as a means of divine blessing to men. NONE of the non catholic observances (American history, photography etc) you have here mentioned are even roughly analogous. I’m promising you even our pagan pals see this much. [quote]Sloth wrote:
<<< Sorry, but we believe the Church is made up of the earthy and the heavenly congregation. >>>[/quote]So do we (at least I) >>> [quote]Sloth wrote:We have no problem asking our church members to pray for us. >>>
[/quote]Neither do we except we prefer they be alive in this world since their is no evidence God wants or expects us to invoke the favors of those who have gone on to be with the Lord. Or once again that they are even aware of what’s happening in this world. There are a couple of very rare and special instances in the bible which I suspect I may be hearing about, but they do not establish anything like this practice.
