Misconceptions of Christianity

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
661

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…what for? I haven’t done anything wrong…
[/quote]

The only unforgivable sin is Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. The rest you won’t be punished for if you do not commit that one.[/quote]

…is that sin saying goddammit? [/quote]
I couldn’t do it no matter how hard I tried. And I tried pretty hard. I mean as a believer. He loved me no matter what I did and it drove me to repentance. [/quote]

…in dutch it’s GODVERDOMME Now you read it, thought it and sinned. Problem?[/quote]
I added the part I edited into my post. No. No problem for me. What was a problem was in my worst backslidden state nothing any of you people can think of could outdo the things I said to Him trying to get Him to leave me alone. He would not do it my way. The worse I was the more He loved me until I finally broke down and did it His way. Nothing and I do mean NOTHING… can convince me otherwise. I all I can do is tell people what I know. It’s up to the same God who broke me to break them. If this thread is not evidence to my friends that dead men cannot be argued into living I don’t know what would be.

Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? <<<>>> But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8, the end of the chapter[/quote]

…i have no idea what dire straits you were in, and i don’t want to know. I’m just glad i don’t have your standards by which you condemn billions of people to the ovens, because altough you claim that judgment is op to god, it’s what you believe and from those beliefs you derive some sort of satisfaction. It’s substituting one addiction for another; one you cling onto for you fix, that’s all…

662

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
<<< Tirib, I would be very interested to hear your experience that lead to your conversion. I promise I won’t make fun of you. I know that I sometimes don’t keep my promise, but that’s usually when I get pissed off. As yet you haven’t done that. In fact, you’ve been understanding towards my point of view, probably because you were once a non-religious person yourself.[/quote]I haven’t seen you fail to keep any promises so I’m not sure what you mean by that. Whether you would make fun of me or not would have zero influence on what I would choose to share on a forum like this anyway. Nuthin personal. Give me maybe a day or so to pray and think about how to redact my testimony down to a manageable forum post. I have some bits saved that I never posted from when some other threads were going as well. BTW, I do think I believe you are asking this in good faith. EDIT: (sorta =] )

Lemme make clear though the bad times I was posting about above were after I was already a believer… a while.

663

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I’m sorry but this is a crock of shit. So there is a conspiracy of preachers to get people to feel as if the spirit has descended upon them?

So we just came up with discernment, and understanding when the spirit is actually with you and when it is just feelings, because we are trying to trick people? Interesting.

And what is that purpose? So they can have more people sit in church on Sunday? So they can have more socials? So people will pray more decades, light more candles, or be more devout? Join an Order? Give more to Charity? Join a Fraternity?[/quote]

Not a conspiracy, at least not a conscious one. As I said, I don’t totally agree with the God virus idea, but many religious traditions get passed down because they “work,” but for the reasons religion says they work. Take prayer, for example. Take a person who is late for work and is frantically searching for his car keys. He decides to take a moment and pray for God to help him find his car keys. Within seconds after saying the prayer, he finds his car keys. Did praying work? Yes, and here’s why. When he was frantically searching for his keys, his body was in stress mode which prevented clear thinking and even clear vision. The keys could have been right in front of him but he missed them simply because his brain was not properly processing visual input. Prayer functions much like meditation - it calmed him down, slowed down his thinking, and allowed him to see the keys. Praying worked! He then goes and tells everyone how prayer worked. Others try it in similar situations, and it works too! So now the word is spread that praying works. But it is not because of divine intervention but because of a combined physiological/psychological response.

In school I used to pray before tests all the time. And yes, it “worked.”

664

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

So I know the Bible is true, because I tested it . . . Have you personally tested it or are you just parroting what someone else has stated . . . who’s being intellectually dishonest now?

[/quote]

ROFLMMFAO!!!

Prove there is a dome above the earth, holding up water, that the sun and moon are set into. Right now.[/quote]

Why would I want to prove your silly statement true - it’s not a bible verse . . . . LMAO!

665

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …i have no idea what dire straits you were in, and i don’t want to know. I’m just glad i don’t have your standards by which you condemn billions of people to the ovens, because altough you claim that judgment is op to god, it’s what you believe and from those beliefs you derive some sort of satisfaction. It’s substituting one addiction for another; one you cling onto for you fix, that’s all…[/quote]
My satisfaction is derived from intimate fellowship with the God of the universe and yes I’m enslaved and I don’t ever wanna be “free” again.
Romans 6:17-18
But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness

666

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

Please tell me why you think that atheists/agnostics/non-believers want to kill anybody
[/quote]

See, to suggest mental abuse by our clerics, and then our own mental abuse of our children with the ‘mental virus,’ justifies police intervention. Hey, I’m all for social services removing children, even jailing parents that ‘brainwash’ and ‘mentally abuse’ children. So now, if that’s what our faith is, then the atheist is morally obligated to have our children removed and us jailed/committed. They’d be monsters not to.

However, the language of New Atheism is even harsher. Sheeple. Brain-washed brain-washers. Deluded. Child abusers. The non-brights. Virus carriers…Pretty much all the dehumanizing stuff you’d expect before the pogroms start up.

Though, I almost look forward to being rebelliously counter-culture (Christian), part of the underground resistance. Maybe it’d get trendy, and teen pop stars would be deemed risque for REFUSING to act out a lesbian kiss on stage. You never know.

667

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
<<< Organized religion (and I’m talking about all religions) relies on psychological manipulation that borders on emotional abuse. >>>[/quote]Out of curiosity, who do you figure is so manipulating and abusing me?
[/quote]

It’s internal. I PMed ephrem a link to a video series by a psychologist, who is an atheist, who has analogized religious doctrine to a computer virus. He notes that all of the world’s major religions (even Buddhism, he says) have very strict rules about sex. And he’s not talking about the rules that actually hurt someone, such as “don’t rape,” but rules about practices that hurt no one - a victimless crime. He uses masturbation as an example. This act hurts no other person. Yet every religion prohibits it. Why? Because everyone is going to do it at some point in their lives, and if we’re talking about teenage boys, we’re talking about a near-daily activity, sometimes more than once. Sexual tension builds up, the teenage boy (if he is very religious) may try his best not to think “dirty” thoughts, read his Bible, pray, whatever, but eventually something will give and he’ll go rub one out. In his mind he has violated “God’s law” and feels extremely guilty. To assuage his guilt, he goes to church (perhaps to confession if he is Catholic) and asks for forgiveness. He’ll generally get forgiveness, or some form of it, and off he goes. The cycle repeats itself. This guilt cycle, which has been implanted in the brain by priests, is what keeps most people from rejecting religion. It is emotionally abusive because it causes intense feelings of guilt, perhaps even feelings of depression, for no good reason other than to force people to remain with a particular religion.

This is just one method. There are also various hypnotic techniques that preachers use to get people to feel as if the spirit has descended upon them. [/quote]

I’m sorry but this is a crock of shit. So there is a conspiracy of preachers to get people to feel as if the spirit has descended upon them?

So we just came up with discernment, and understanding when the spirit is actually with you and when it is just feelings, because we are trying to trick people? Interesting.

And what is that purpose? So they can have more people sit in church on Sunday? So they can have more socials? So people will pray more decades, light more candles, or be more devout? Join an Order? Give more to Charity? Join a Fraternity?[/quote]

I don’t completely agree with the God virus concept, although some of the ideas are intriguing. I feel that religion was initially invented to function as an unpaid, omnipresent police force. Let’s face it, people are more likely to do bad things if they don’t fear getting caught. And some of the rules served a purpose. For example, we all know that undercooked pork will make you sick and cause death. Today, we have cooking thermometers and ovens that can monitor temperature. These gadgets were not around in the Bronze Age. Hence the kosher laws. Judaism created a simple rule: don’t eat pork. How did they enforce the rule? Fear of punishment from an invisible but all-powerful being.

The same thing happened with marriage in the Middle Ages in Europe. Love was irrelevant in these early marriages. It was all about royalty marrying royalty to maximize land ownership and thus increase their power. A young prince would find himself stuck marrying some hideous troll of a cousin who never wanted sex. How do you get the prince to stay married to someone like that? The dukes and counts got together, went to the local priest, made a nice “donation,” and got the church to make a rule that if you get divorced you will go to hell. Problem solved. And how do you keep the young prince from sneaking out at night and having a roll in the hay with cute and saucy peasant girl? That’s right: hell! Cheat on your wife and you’ll go to hell. And in case the prince decides to screw the cute peasant girl anyway, their children will be called “bastards” with no right to inherit any property from the prince.

That’s right Sloth, marriage arose for economic reasons, not moral ones. And before anyone accuses me of trying to destroy marriage, please note that I’ve been married for over 19 years, and I think there are practical secular reasons for remaining married, one of them being that I believe that kids really do better with two parents. However, I do not judge divorced people as bad or single parents as somehow unfit.
[/quote]

You do understand that Polygamy was all the rage back in the day right? And it was more about keeping the bloodline pure?

668

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

Please tell me why you think that atheists/agnostics/non-believers want to kill anybody
[/quote]

See, to suggest mental abuse by our clerics, and then our own mental abuse of our children with the ‘mental virus,’ justifies police intervention. Hey, I’m all for social services removing children, even jailing parents that ‘brainwash’ and ‘mentally abuse’ children. So now, if that’s what our faith is, then the atheist is morally obligated to have our children removed and us jailed/committed. They’d be monsters not to.

However, the language of New Atheism is even harsher. Sheeple. Brain-washed brain-washers. Deluded. Child abusers. The non-brights. Virus carriers…Pretty much all the dehumanizing stuff you’d expect before the pogroms start up.

Though, I almost look forward to being rebelliously counter-culture (Christian), part of the underground resistance. Maybe it’d get trendy, and teen pop stars would be deemed risque for REFUSING to act out a lesbian kiss on stage. You never know.

[/quote]

You’ve managed to over-react. This was merely one psychologist who proposed this idea - it is by no means well-accepted. Even I question it. And you conveniently left out the portion of my post where I talk about liking law and order. We still have the First Amendment and everyone is free to believe whatever nonsense they wish to believe and to pass this on to their children. As far as I’m concerned, you can home-school your kids and teach the creation story as science. But just don’t complain when colleges reject their application due to a deficient science curriculum.

Underground resistance? Please. It’s the atheists and agnostics who need to hide. As for the lesbian kiss thing, at least I can enjoy girl on girl action without fear of punishment from some invisible police force.

669

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …i have no idea what dire straits you were in, and i don’t want to know. I’m just glad i don’t have your standards by which you condemn billions of people to the ovens, because altough you claim that judgment is op to god, it’s what you believe and from those beliefs you derive some sort of satisfaction. It’s substituting one addiction for another; one you cling onto for you fix, that’s all…[/quote]
My satisfaction is derived from intimate fellowship with the God of the universe and yes I’m enslaved and I don’t ever wanna be “free” again.
Romans 6:17-18
But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness[/quote]

…i can’t argue with that…

670

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

…I can enjoy girl on girl action without fear of punishment from some invisible police force…
[/quote]

And ultimately that’s what this, all of this, is really about. Yes, these ‘victimless crimes’ are so internally isolated, that our culture is now one which gives rise to–for example, a 17 year old girl who dresses like a cheap whore to act out a lesbian fantasy for the never quite satisfied pleasure-consumer. “More, newer, debauchery! This has been done, like 3 months ago!”

Barren, graying, and bi-polar (socially individualistic, collectivist in our safety nets).

671

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

…I can enjoy girl on girl action without fear of punishment from some invisible police force…
[/quote]

And ultimately that’s what this, all of this, is really about. Yes, these ‘victimless crimes’ are so internally isolated, that our culture is now one which gives rise to–for example, a 17 year old girl who dresses like a cheap whore to act out a lesbian fantasy for the never quite satisfied pleasure-consumer. “More, newer, debauchery! This has been done, like 3 months ago!”

Barren, graying, and bi-polar (socially individualistic, collectivist in our safety nets).

[/quote]

So you’re saying that this one girl witnessing a lesbian act caused her to act out a lesbian fantasy. I’m no expert in psychology, but I bet that there was something going on in this girl’s mind way before she witnessed whatever it was she witnessed. But even if witnessing the lesbian act was the only cause of her subsequent debauchery, so what? This was just one girl. If tens of thousands of girls took to the streets in mass lesbian orgies, then I would say there was a problem. But one? That’s like saying we should ban all vehicles because one person decided to drive drunk. People will always do irresponsible things no matter what you do or what you decide to ban. Even the Amish have problems.

BTW, as long as we’re talking about debauchery, what was it that influenced all those priests to molest children?

672

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

…I can enjoy girl on girl action without fear of punishment from some invisible police force…
[/quote]

And ultimately that’s what this, all of this, is really about. Yes, these ‘victimless crimes’ are so internally isolated, that our culture is now one which gives rise to–for example, a 17 year old girl who dresses like a cheap whore to act out a lesbian fantasy for the never quite satisfied pleasure-consumer. “More, newer, debauchery! This has been done, like 3 months ago!”

Barren, graying, and bi-polar (socially individualistic, collectivist in our safety nets).

[/quote]

So you’re saying that this one girl witnessing a lesbian act caused her to act out a lesbian fantasy. I’m no expert in psychology, but I bet that there was something going on in this girl’s mind way before she witnessed whatever it was she witnessed. But even if witnessing the lesbian act was the only cause of her subsequent debauchery, so what?

This was just one girl. If tens of thousands of girls took to the streets in mass lesbian orgies, then I would say there was a problem. But one? That’s like saying we should ban all vehicles because one person decided to drive drunk. People will always do irresponsible things no matter what you do or what you decide to ban. Even the Amish have problems.[/quote]

You talks as if society is made up of isolated individuals, each living in isolated moments of time, and each within their own impermeable bubble. You seem oddly perplexed as to why she did what she did. I’m not.

All those victimless crimes we’ve increasingly tolerated, accepted, and even celebrated, made it a “gee, who would have guessed that she’d be selling sex, upping-the-ante lesbian sex at that, to sell records” type of moment. I wasn’t shocked at all. I’ve come to expect such things from us.

Easy. Pedophiles, and homosexuals looking for twinks, sought out and abused a high trust position. They do it schools and day care, too. But, never fear! The weeding out process for homosexuals and such has been ratcheted up. Betcha such incidents, in the future, will be as rare as reproducing atheists. That’s the part anti-Catholics aren’t looking forward too.

673

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …i have no idea what dire straits you were in, and i don’t want to know. I’m just glad i don’t have your standards by which you condemn billions of people to the ovens, because altough you claim that judgment is op to god, it’s what you believe and from those beliefs you derive some sort of satisfaction. It’s substituting one addiction for another; one you cling onto for you fix, that’s all…[/quote]
My satisfaction is derived from intimate fellowship with the God of the universe and yes I’m enslaved and I don’t ever wanna be “free” again.
Romans 6:17-18
But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness[/quote]

…i can’t argue with that…
[/quote]
And neither can I argue with the position of the self proclaimed autonomous man. Which is why I haven’t.
1st Peter 3:15-16
"but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; and keep a a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

The reason for the hope of glory that is in me is Christ and Him crucified which is all I’ve been telling you. Not trying to make the gospel answerable to finite devices such as deductive or statistical syllogisms to say nothing of the spiritually ghoulish postulations of God hating psychologists.

I’ve read tons of all that stuff and found much of it fascinating, but it is pointless for me to attempt to use it to convince you of anything. I am told to tell you. The Holy Spirit takes over from there.

674

[quote]Sloth wrote:
<<< You talks as if society is made up of isolated individuals, each living in isolated moments of time, and each within their own impermeable bubble. You seem oddly perplexed as to why she did what she did. I’m not.

All those victimless crimes we’ve increasingly tolerated, accepted, and even celebrated, made it a “gee, who would have guessed that she’d be selling sex, upping-the-ante lesbian sex at that, to sell records” type of moment. I wasn’t shocked at all. I’ve come to expect such things from us. >>>[/quote]I gotta tell ya man. I wrote a post a long long time ago about escalating societal promiscuity, the breakdown of the family and the central role that has and is playing in the demise of this nation. You were the only one that responded with simply “good post”.

I don’t know if you remember. I’ll say again. Whatever else we may disagree on (which I’m thinking is quite a bit), my hat is off to you for your insight in this all important area. I’ve seen some of your posts lately and you are one of the very few people I have ever met who has the clear thinking view here that you do. I am being deadly serious.

675

[quote]Sloth wrote:

You talks as if society is made up of isolated individuals, each living in isolated moments of time, and each within their own impermeable bubble.[/quote]

Of course society and pop culture influence people. But you don’t counteract that by overprotection and censorship. I grew up with overprotective, fairly conservative Catholic parents. Guess what - I still learned about sex (and it wasn’t in a school sex ed class it was from my friends), saw porn, and could have had access to drugs if I wanted to use.

Half the fun of watching porn with my friends was that I was doing it behind my parents’ back and getting away with it. I’ve heard several stories from guys who went away to Bible camp and some of the girls were giving it away right and left. Teenagers are going to find ways of getting away with stuff - that’s just reality. Make something “forbidden” and it’s just that much more fun to do.

The way you inoculate kids from bad influences is teach them to think critically and to think for themselves. This does create somewhat of a “bubble.” I could give a shit what other people think about me. I have my own ideas and opinions.

No, I’m not perplexed at all. My point is that I seriously doubt that watching two women kiss on television was the sole and proximate cause of her deciding to do what she did. But even if it was the sole cause, how many thousands of girls witnessed the same thing who didn’t go out and dress like whores?

[quote]Easy. Pedophiles, and homosexuals looking for twinks, sought out and abused a high trust position. They do it schools and day care, too. But, never fear! The weeding out process for homosexuals and such has been ratcheted up. Betcha such incidents, in the future, will be as rare as reproducing atheists. That’s the part anti-Catholics aren’t looking forward too.
[/quote]

Your point was that outside influences cause immoral behavior. Here you’re suggesting that these priests were already pre-disposed to being pedophiles. And that’s my point. That 17-year-old girl who dressed like a whore probably had some issues before she saw two women kissing.

Seeing the two women kissing may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, but any other trigger could have prompted the same behavior. How do I know? Because of the thousands of other girls who saw the same thing and did nothing.

BTW - The only example of a victimless crime (if it even is a crime) that I used was a teenage boy rubbing one out in private. Not public, not in front of his friends, but in his own room. Please tell me who the victim of that crime is.

676

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I gotta tell ya man. I wrote a post a long long time ago about escalating societal promiscuity, the breakdown of the family and the central role that has and is playing in the demise of this nation.[/quote]

It is the cornerstone, isn’t it? So much so that I can barely tolerate anti-nanny state talk, anymore. I just roll my eyes and sigh.

[quote] You were the only one that responded with simply “good post”. I don’t know if you remember. I’ll say again. Whatever else we may disagree on (which I’m thinking is quite a bit), my hat is off to you for your insight in this all important area. I’ve seen some of your posts lately and you are one of the very few people I have ever met who has the clear thinking view here that you do. I am being deadly serious.
[/quote]

Yeah, I didn’t have much to add at the time, because you hit it out of the park. As to where we disagree…now that you’ve said something, I’m not sure. I mean, I’m sure there are issues we’d part ways on, but I just can’t recall any such disagreements.

However, now I’m intrigued with your aside, “which I’m thinking is quite a bit.” Wondering what impressions, on what topics, has led you to believe so.

677

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
<<< Organized religion (and I’m talking about all religions) relies on psychological manipulation that borders on emotional abuse. >>>[/quote]Out of curiosity, who do you figure is so manipulating and abusing me?
[/quote]

It’s internal. I PMed ephrem a link to a video series by a psychologist, who is an atheist, who has analogized religious doctrine to a computer virus. He notes that all of the world’s major religions (even Buddhism, he says) have very strict rules about sex.

And he’s not talking about the rules that actually hurt someone, such as “don’t rape,” but rules about practices that hurt no one - a victimless crime. He uses masturbation as an example. This act hurts no other person. Yet every religion prohibits it.

Why? Because everyone is going to do it at some point in their lives, and if we’re talking about teenage boys, we’re talking about a near-daily activity, sometimes more than once. Sexual tension builds up, the teenage boy (if he is very religious) may try his best not to think “dirty” thoughts, read his Bible, pray, whatever, but eventually something will give and he’ll go rub one out.

In his mind he has violated “God’s law” and feels extremely guilty. To assuage his guilt, he goes to church (perhaps to confession if he is Catholic) and asks for forgiveness. He’ll generally get forgiveness, or some form of it, and off he goes. The cycle repeats itself.

This guilt cycle, which has been implanted in the brain by priests, is what keeps most people from rejecting religion. It is emotionally abusive because it causes intense feelings of guilt, perhaps even feelings of depression, for no good reason other than to force people to remain with a particular religion.

This is just one method. There are also various hypnotic techniques that preachers use to get people to feel as if the spirit has descended upon them. [/quote]

Could I get a PM with said links also?

678

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…the problem with the God-virus approach is that the patients don’t realise they’re sick, or that they’re being manipulated. In fact, they sincerely believe that their faith is truth, and that everyone else is wrong. A muslim believes a christian is wrong for the same reason a christian believes a muslim is wrong, when both are just as caught up in a delusion [imo]…[/quote]

Letting New Atheists talk can do nothing but help us. Our religions are viruses. Indeed, psychologists describe us infected, and the carriers of a type of thought virus! We are brainwashed. Deluded. We are mentally abused, abuse ourselves, and in return, mentally abuse our children.

If it wasn’t for the Darwinian dead-end that atheism is, they’d have the power to carry out a holocaust that would dwarf all others. For whatever wrongs might be carried out by humans using Christ’s good name, Atheists would teach them a thing or two.[/quote]

Please tell me why you think that atheists/agnostics/non-believers want to kill anybody or want to do bad things? I happen to like law and order. Why? Because if this is the only life I have, I don’t want to spend it in a constant fight for survival. Most atheists/agnostics would agree. I live what most would consider a very moral life.

Why? How many religious people do you know who screwed up somehow and then prayed to God to get them out of their mess with the promise that they’ll never do it again? I’ve done it back when I was religious and I bet most people have. What happens is that they’ll get lucky and everything will turn out fine.

Some people will keep their promise and not do it again, but many won’t. Eventually their luck will run out and they’ll get caught or the mess won’t be fixed. I don’t act like this. I know that if I do something, I am stuck with the consequences. Therefore, I try very hard to avoid those actions that may cause negative consequences.
[/quote]

His ability to conjure straw men puts Harry Potter to shame.

679

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…the problem with the God-virus approach is that the patients don’t realise they’re sick, or that they’re being manipulated. In fact, they sincerely believe that their faith is truth, and that everyone else is wrong. A muslim believes a christian is wrong for the same reason a christian believes a muslim is wrong, when both are just as caught up in a delusion [imo]…[/quote]

Letting New Atheists talk can do nothing but help us. Our religions are viruses. Indeed, psychologists describe us infected, and the carriers of a type of thought virus! We are brainwashed. Deluded. We are mentally abused, abuse ourselves, and in return, mentally abuse our children.

If it wasn’t for the Darwinian dead-end that atheism is, they’d have the power to carry out a holocaust that would dwarf all others. For whatever wrongs might be carried out by humans using Christ’s good name, Atheists would teach them a thing or two.[/quote]

Please tell me why you think that atheists/agnostics/non-believers want to kill anybody or want to do bad things? I happen to like law and order. Why? Because if this is the only life I have, I don’t want to spend it in a constant fight for survival. Most atheists/agnostics would agree. I live what most would consider a very moral life.

Why? How many religious people do you know who screwed up somehow and then prayed to God to get them out of their mess with the promise that they’ll never do it again? I’ve done it back when I was religious and I bet most people have. What happens is that they’ll get lucky and everything will turn out fine.

Some people will keep their promise and not do it again, but many won’t. Eventually their luck will run out and they’ll get caught or the mess won’t be fixed. I don’t act like this. I know that if I do something, I am stuck with the consequences. Therefore, I try very hard to avoid those actions that may cause negative consequences.
[/quote]

His ability to conjure straw men puts Harry Potter to shame.[/quote]

Mak, you never disappoint. I’ll say that much.

680

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I gotta tell ya man. I wrote a post a long long time ago about escalating societal promiscuity, the breakdown of the family and the central role that has and is playing in the demise of this nation.[/quote]

It is the cornerstone, isn’t it? So much so that I can barely tolerate anti-nanny state talk, anymore. I just roll my eyes and sigh.

[quote] You were the only one that responded with simply “good post”. I don’t know if you remember. I’ll say again. Whatever else we may disagree on (which I’m thinking is quite a bit), my hat is off to you for your insight in this all important area. I’ve seen some of your posts lately and you are one of the very few people I have ever met who has the clear thinking view here that you do. I am being deadly serious.
[/quote]

Yeah, I didn’t have much to add at the time, because you hit it out of the park. As to where we disagree…now that you’ve said something, I’m not sure. I mean, I’m sure there are issues we’d part ways on, but I just can’t recall any such disagreements.

However, now I’m intrigued with your aside, “which I’m thinking is quite a bit.” Wondering what impressions, on what topics, has led you to believe so.[/quote]
We’ll leave our disagreements for later if you don’t mind and I’m somewhat gratified you remember that post. I put a lot of work into it actually. Consider these observations by de Tocqueville in the 1830’s as you know:

[i]<<< "Again, it may be said that in our morals we have reserved strange immunities to man, so that there is, as it were, one virtue for his use and another for the guidance of his partner, and that, according to the opinion of the public, the very same act may be punished alternately as a crime or only as a fault.

The Americans do not know this iniquitous division of duties and rights; among them the seducer is as much dishonored as his victim. <<<>>> their conduct to women always implies that they suppose them to be virtuous and refined; and such is the respect entertained for the moral freedom of the sex that in the presence of a woman the most guarded language is used lest her ear should be offended by an expression.

In America a young unmarried woman may alone and without fear undertake a long journey. <<<>>> the Americans can conceive nothing more precious than a woman’s honor<<< >>> As for myself, I do not hesitate to avow that although the women of the United States are confined within the narrow circle of domestic life, and their situation is in some respects one of extreme dependence,

I have nowhere seen woman occupying a loftier position; and if I were asked, now that I am drawing to the close of this work, in which I have spoken of so many important things done by the Americans, to what the singular prosperity and growing strength of that people ought mainly to be attributed, I should reply: To the superiority of their women."[/i]

He was merely observing. THAT is the moral foundation this country was built on and it came from Christianity and laid the bedrock for everything else. It bred faithfulness, self sacrifice, self control and just plain moral decency into the very fabric of this nation. THAT is also what we surrendered in the 60’s and THAT is the disease of which all else is merely symptomatic.

Are you kidding me? Men assuming women are virtuous and refined and considering nothing more precious than her honor? Guarding their language lest they offend her? A long journey!!! HAR DEE HAR HAR!!! Today women AND CHILDREN can barely leave their house unarmed for fear some degenerate may brutalize them and throw them in a river somewhere.

How far we have fallen while we fund monstrously expensive and useless studies and programs trying to figure out where we went wrong. This country is now an unbridled whorehouse that de Tocqueville would not even recognize as that shining beacon in the world we once were due to the superiority of our women resulting from the towering virtuous respect with which they were treated.

We are rotting from the inside out and nothing but a revival of the grace of God on this nation will make a speck of difference.