Misconceptions of Christianity

JoabSonOfZeruiah · July 15, 2010, 6:42am

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
No the Bible is not wrong, it is actually inerrant. However it is limited because of human ability.[/quote]

What do you mean by this?[/quote]

Inerrant = without error.

Human limitations, include wouldn’t know certain scientific equations that hadn’t come around yet, &c. As well the whole days thing days = era back in the day?[/quote]

I’m sorry, Brother Chris, but that is simply not true (that the Bible is without error).

#1
1 Kings 7:23 “He made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.”

Incorrect: Circumference = Pi() x Diameter, which means the line would have to have been over 31 cubits. In order for this to be rounding, it would have had to overstate the amount to ensure that the line did “compass it round about.”

#2
Lev 11:20-21: “All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.”

Incorrect: Fowl do not go upon all four.

#3
Lev 11:6: “And the hare, because he cheweth the cud…”

Incorrect: Hare do not chew the cud.

#4
Deut 14:7: " “…as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof.”

Incorrect: For the hare this is wrong on both counts: Hare donÃ¢??t chew the cud and they do divide the “hoof.”

#5
Jonah 1:17 says, “…Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights”

Incorrect: Matt 12:40 says “…Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly…” whales and fish are not related

#6
Matt 13:31-32: " “the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed whichÃ¢?Â¦is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown is the greatest among herbs and becometh a tree.”

Incorrect: There are 2 significant errors here: first, there are many smaller seeds, like the orchid seed; and second, mustard plants don’t grow into trees.

#7
Matt 4:8: " Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them."

Incorrect: Unless the world is flat, altitude simply will not help you see all the kingdoms of the earth.

[/quote]
Hey BackInAction for the first contradiction you may find this video interesting The Bible and the Value of Pi - Supernatural Design - YouTube . Some of these other supposed contradictions occur out of the languages differences between Greek and Hebrew and translating it to English and the differences on how we and they classified things. There is more than what appears to the eye especially the “6th contradiction”.

ephrem · July 15, 2010, 8:15am

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
<<< And most atheists remember the time that they believed in God.[/quote]
No they can’t. Atheism is the ultimate self delusion. In Romans 1, which I’ve quoted already a couple times, Paul tells me:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things

There remains in sinful men (and women, in case that isn’t clear) as well as creation at large universal testimony to the God-hood of God. They are contemporaneously everywhere confronted with it and unable to embrace it and yes that is completely just of God. There is no such thing as an atheist and all their protestations to the contrary serve only as the latest in a very long train of testimony to God’s truth. It is non disprovable and therefor not science as I have never claimed it was. In fact it probably is tautological from the standpoint of unbelief.[/quote]

…atheism is simply the lack of beliefs in any god. For me, this lack of belief came about naturally after years of contemplation, as the default position, so to say. This thread started out to clear up misconceptions about christianity, but in the end they’re confirmed by you and other posters not as misconceptions, but as reality…

Tiribulus · July 15, 2010, 12:59pm

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …atheism is simply the lack of beliefs in any god. For me, this lack of belief came about naturally after years of contemplation, as the default position, so to say. This thread started out to clear up misconceptions about christianity, but in the end they’re confirmed by you and other posters not as misconceptions, but as reality…
[/quote]
The only beliefs that don’t come naturally to fallen man are authentically Christian ones so again, I understand completely. However, God’s Word cannot fail to accomplish His purpose;
Isaiah 55:8-11
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven
and do not return there but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout,
giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

Our (Christians) success or failure depends entirely on our obedience and not whether anybody believes us. How anybody responds is up to the grace of God by the work of the Holy Spirit. Our job is to love them and tell them. It will ultimately either heighten their judgment or break their hearts and we may never find out which in this life. Either way the Word of God cannot fail.

CappedAndPlanIt · July 15, 2010, 12:16pm

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< Do any believers see the problem with this double standard? Please? Brains, anyone?[/quote]
Nope, not even slightly. No double standard whatsoever, but that’s a brainless guy like me so waddaya expect? God has rendered certain whatever comes to pass, good and evil, without in any way being responsible for evil. That’s even worse huh? [/quote]

Yup. It makes no sense.

If you want to believe it, feel free. But don’t try to pretend like you’re living in the real world as you do.

Oh, and keep talking to the sky wizard in your head… even though, he’s already “rendered certain” whatever will or will not happen, and he wont change his plan, so it doesnt matter what you do or dont ask for, because he’ll do what he wants anyway… except that he’ll always answer your prayers…

Yeah. No sense. Sorry.[/quote]
Au contraire. Thou knowest not what thous sayest. It most assuredly does matter what I do… and what you do. In fact it ONLY matters if what I’m saying is true. I’m living in the same world you are, only the God who is really there has breathed His life into my heart which gives me all these what from your perspective are bizarre whacked out hallucinations. I didn’t go looking for them in the beginning I assure you. He came to me.[/quote]

Little tip, bud: If you have to believe in something before you see it, its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself.

Sorry to break your heart.

CappedAndPlanIt · July 15, 2010, 12:18pm

Word of God fail.

pat · July 15, 2010, 12:52pm

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
These threads are always interesting. They always turn into debates between theists and non-theists (and they get pretty vicious). Here’s the thing, neither side is definitively correct. Theists have no physical evidence of the existence of God and non-theists have no physical evidence for the non-existence of God. Neither side was around during the time of creation/start of everything. So when someone says “you’re wrong”, they aren’t being completely honest with themselves because they are just guessing (along with the rest of us). The best way to go about these discussions is to present your side of the argument with some evidence or logical reasoning and keep an open mind.

[/quote]

No one can definitively rule on the side of theism or atheism, but if you tell me we were created by a pink panda god who spoke to you and told you the world was flat and only 3,000 years old, I’m calling bullshit.

Abstract, universalist, concepts of the divine are impossible to refute or confirm, but specific religious dogma that attempts to describe, in detail, the specifics of the workings of the universe are not. We know Zeus doesn’t throw lighting bolts, it’s not a matter of having faith/belief or lack there of, if you take such a claim seriously.[/quote]

Do you have proof Zeus doesn’t throw lightening bolts? If you can answer this definitively, I’ll agree with you.
[/quote]

On pretty good authority lightning is as a result of a build up of static electricity and a subsequently a discharge of electricity.

So, it’s a pretty good probability that if there is a Zeus, he ain’t chucking lightning bolts…
[/quote]

While I totally agree and highly doubt there every was/is a Zeus, there is always the possibility he is involved unless we know everything from all time. Perhaps a Zeus existed and died out leaving only the lightening we see today. My point is that no matter how likely and logical something is, unless you are aware of every factor for it’s entire existence, you don’t know completely.
[/quote]

And yet we manage to function everyday basically on pure faith. Zeus did exist, but he died a few years ago, he was a friend of mine’s dog.

Tiribulus · July 15, 2010, 1:07pm

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< Little tip, bud: If you have to believe in something before you see it, its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself.
Sorry to break your heart.
<<<<< >>>>>
Word of God fail.[/quote]
No kiddin? Well I’m really glad you had this talk with me. I’ll have to inform “sky wizard” aka God almighty, the Ancient of Days, He who is, was and always shall be and creator of all things that CappedAndPlanIt has declared His word a bullshit failure. I have a sneaking suspicion He already knows that though and I’m very certain it isn’t the first time He’s heard it.

You can’t break my heart friend. Nothing and nobody on this earth can.
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20:

pat · July 15, 2010, 12:59pm

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

No but you are missing the point. Zeus sets things up to seem like he doesn’t exist as a test of our faith. You are too closed minded with your dogma. If you had a personal relationship with Zeus like I do then you would see how obvious it is. Also, the universe can’t have come from nothing so obviously it was caused during the war between the Gods and the Titans.
[/quote]

I got the point, but you cannot have a relationship with something that does not exist. Has no relevance what so ever, it’s just a Red Herring. We weren’t discussing the existence of Zeus, we were talking about God.
Because one doesn’t exist, doesn’t mean the other doesn’t exist.
It’s really simple, we know “stuff” exists. We know it came from some where. It either came from something or nothing…It’s really that simple.

pat · July 15, 2010, 1:03pm

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I’m sorry, you were busy making so much sense.

Your all powerful, all loving god allows evil to exist, and will punish his most beloved creations for eternity if they dont think like you do.

He made the earth 6 thousand years ago, then made it so that every reliable form of dating consistantly shows objects to be much older – confusing people into thinking that the bible must be wrong, and condemning them to hell for their conclusion.

He gave humans paradise - then goes out of his way to set up the conditions under which man may easily disobey him and be cast out. Just for shits and giggles, not only does he put the forbidden fruit very close by, he allows the devil to talk eve into eating it. Yup, benevolent as hell.

But, of course, like darkness is the absence of light, and cold of heat, so is evil the absence of god… except that sort of destroys the “omnipresent” part of your sky wizard myth, to suggest there could be a place that god is not.

Also, there is a dome above the earth keeping the waters of heaven out, the sun and moon are in this dome, blah blah blah.

God created plants before the sun, even though plants need the sun to exist. He did this backwards, in a totally impossible way, to combat arguments that the genesis myth is a metaphor. Read that again: because the theory makes no sense, it is more reasonable. Also, god will go that far out of his way, but refuses proof of himself.

Because we already HAVE enough proof, as a poster in this thread said – proof being old, impossible stories that are impossible to verify and wildy rediculous explanations of the world around us. Proof in answered prayers - while the unanswered prayers are not supposed to affect our believing at all.

Sky wizard doesn’t exist. I’ll bet my soul on it. :P[/quote]

Put your soul where your mouth is…Prove that all that exists comes from utter nothingness and I’ll join you…[/quote]

Didn’t say that. I said there is no sky wizard. Higher power beyond our undertanding? Quite possibly.

I love the “Its my sky wizard white man in white robe Zeus inspired character God or its nothingness!” argument.[/quote]

I don’t believe in a sky wizard either. Are you saying you believe in a higher power, just not God as described by the Judeo-Christian traditions?

dmaddox · July 15, 2010, 1:09pm

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Little tip, bud: If you have to believe in something before you see it, its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself.

Sorry to break your heart.[/quote]

Can you see the wind? I guess we should not beleive in the wind, because “its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself”. We can only see the effects of the wind. I may not be able to see God, but I see the effects of his work.

haney1 · July 15, 2010, 1:10pm

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

Added to my Amazon wish list. Thanks Haney!
[/quote]

No problem. As I said it is on my list as well. I hope it is good.

pat · July 15, 2010, 1:16pm

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
So when a man rapes a ten year old girl, we cant blame god, because the man was acting from his free will.

When a man tries to rape a ten year old girl and she manages to get away, that was god acting on the situation and proving his love.

Do any believers see the problem with this double standard? Please? Brains, anyone?
[/quote]

Ahhh, the problem of evil. That’s what this is called. It is the single biggest problem in theistic philosophies. Why does a good God, allow bad things to happen? All I have is theories, intuitions and speculations…Nothing I can prove, so I will spare you. Ultimately I do not know. I know there is evil, I know that it is primarily acted through humans, but I don’t know why.
I also know that the problem does not invalidate God, just because God doesn’t act like people think he should, doesn’t mean all the belief is fake or invalid, and getting all pissed off about it does really help anything.

Further, the presentations of the non-religious prove a clear lack of knowledge of God and religion. I don’t know how to solve that.

pat · July 15, 2010, 1:18pm

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Little tip, bud: If you have to believe in something before you see it, its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself.

Sorry to break your heart.[/quote]

Can you see the wind? I guess we should not beleive in the wind, because “its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself”. We can only see the effects of the wind. I may not be able to see God, but I see the effects of his work.[/quote]

So, only your five senses can tell you about the world? What if you’re blind?

CappedAndPlanIt · July 15, 2010, 1:23pm

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Little tip, bud: If you have to believe in something before you see it, its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself.

Sorry to break your heart.[/quote]

Can you see the wind? I guess we should not beleive in the wind, because “its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself”. We can only see the effects of the wind. I may not be able to see God, but I see the effects of his work.[/quote]

Wow that analogy makes so much sense, because of course I only literally meant see in the sense of having a physical view of – because I certainly cant FEEL WIND AGAINST MY FUCKING SKIN. Yeah?

Tiribulus · July 15, 2010, 1:25pm

[quote]Chushin wrote:
I’m not much of a believer, either.

But if I could choose between being the kind of person Christianity has apparently made Tirib, and the kind of your person your beliefs seem to manifest here, I’d choose Tirib anytime.

And, it’s beyond me why people like you find it so urgently necessary to try to prove the Tiribs of the world wrong…[/quote]
This is most exceedingly gracious and humbling of you kind sir. It also means more to me than you know.

dmaddox · July 15, 2010, 1:29pm

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Little tip, bud: If you have to believe in something before you see it, its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself.

Sorry to break your heart.[/quote]

Can you see the wind? I guess we should not beleive in the wind, because “its bullshit and you’re just lying to yourself”. We can only see the effects of the wind. I may not be able to see God, but I see the effects of his work.[/quote]

Wow that analogy makes so much sense, because of course I only literally meant see in the sense of having a physical view of – because I certainly cant FEEL WIND AGAINST MY FUCKING SKIN. Yeah?[/quote]

You have some anger issues. What has happened in your life to make you hate God so much?

By the way I can feel God moving in my life. You can not taste the wind, you can hear the wind, you can not smell the wind. Got anything else?

CappedAndPlanIt · July 15, 2010, 1:29pm