Misconceptions of Christianity 2

[Tiribulus]

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< For me, >>> (or, to me)[/quote]
And there is that fatal 2 word self condemning declaration. God created in my image and likeness just like in Romans 1.[/quote]

…make no mistake: man made god in his own image. Bronze age goatherders who knew very little about their own planet, solarsystem and the universe except for their imaginings: you believe their beliefs. The Romans perfected the mind-control mechanics et voilÃ?¡: the perfect religion was born…[/quote]
Too late Mr. Jetson. Who in his fervent denial of the goatherders God, which God whose broken image he still bears, continues to know nothing of ultimate consequence about his own planet, solarsystem and the universe except for his own imaginings.

That “mistake” has already been made. He who upholds all things by the Word of His power (Hebrews 1:3) and yet sits in the heavens and laughs at His enemies (the 2nd Psalm) while making the foolish things of the world to shame the wise (1 Corinthians 1) has made Himself far too real to me.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Alright you guys are scarin me now. Ya need a chaperone or what?[/quote]

Nah, it’s become clear that he’s not my type after all :-([/quote]
Well that’s a relief =]

[katzenjammer]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Interesting enough, Star Wars has direct roots in a great heresy. Manicheanism. [/quote]

Yep. Very good point. In my opinion, we are virutally saturated with Manichaeism and Gnosticism as a culture. So much so that we no longer see it - let alone see it as significant.

[katzenjammer]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Nah, it’s become clear that he’s not my type after all :-([/quote]

Hah! He’s^^ just trying to save face. Last night I told him to keep his big, meaty hands to himself. And left in a bustle and huff.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Well that’s a relief =][/quote]

Imagine my relief? To think I was almost in those big hairy arms of his. Turns out that dirty man had nothing but my hot bod on his mind. hummpff. Another near-tragedy averted.

[dmaddox]

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Nah, it’s become clear that he’s not my type after all :-([/quote]

Hah! He’s^^ just trying to save face. Last night I told him to keep his big, meaty hands to himself. And left in a bustle and huff.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Well that’s a relief =][/quote]

Imagine my relief? To think I was almost in those big hairy arms of his. Turns out that dirty man had nothing but my hot bod on his mind. hummpff. Another near-tragedy averted.

[/quote]

I leave for the weekend and this is what happens. WoW.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Nah, it’s become clear that he’s not my type after all :-([/quote]

Hah! He’s^^ just trying to save face. Last night I told him to keep his big, meaty hands to himself. And left in a bustle and huff.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Well that’s a relief =][/quote]

Imagine my relief? To think I was almost in those big hairy arms of his. Turns out that dirty man had nothing but my hot bod on his mind. hummpff. Another near-tragedy averted.

[/quote]

I leave for the weekend and this is what happens. WoW.[/quote]
I know. I had to take a shower after simply reading something like that.

[pat]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Ahh yes.

Rationality is the one, the true, the ONLY way to know truth.

All hail rationality!

The fact that Tirib – clearly a very intelligent and life-experienced man – knows something in his heart, soul and his very BONES means nothing, because we can’t ALL feel it.

It couldn’t possibly be that he’s in touch with something that most others are blind to, now could it?

Nah, that’s silly…[/quote]

…it means nothing to me. I wouldn’t actively seek out believers and try to convert them to atheism, unlike prosyletising believers trying to convert people to their religion. That’s the difference, and it’s a huge one. I don’t care what you believe as long as it does not impact on my life in any way. Sadly that isn’t the case. The proliferation of religion has an impact on so many people who do not care for it one bit. Keep your religion to yourself, i’m not interested in your [- the general you] delusions…[/quote]

Wow.

For someone who wants to be left alone, you sure make a habit of running TOWARDS the people that you claim are chasing you.

[/quote]

Yup. He ain’t the only one, but he is one of the nicest about it…

[ephrem]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Ahh yes.

Rationality is the one, the true, the ONLY way to know truth.

All hail rationality!

The fact that Tirib – clearly a very intelligent and life-experienced man – knows something in his heart, soul and his very BONES means nothing, because we can’t ALL feel it.

It couldn’t possibly be that he’s in touch with something that most others are blind to, now could it?

Nah, that’s silly…[/quote]

…it means nothing to me. I wouldn’t actively seek out believers and try to convert them to atheism, unlike prosyletising believers trying to convert people to their religion. That’s the difference, and it’s a huge one. I don’t care what you believe as long as it does not impact on my life in any way. Sadly that isn’t the case. The proliferation of religion has an impact on so many people who do not care for it one bit. Keep your religion to yourself, i’m not interested in your [- the general you] delusions…[/quote]

Wow.

For someone who wants to be left alone, you sure make a habit of running TOWARDS the people that you claim are chasing you.

[/quote]

…what’s the saying: keep your friends close, but your enemies closer? I learn a lot from these threads and the participants, i really do. I also enjoy these discussions, otherwise i wouldn’t engage in them. It’s that simple…

[ephrem]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< For me, >>> (or, to me)[/quote]
And there is that fatal 2 word self condemning declaration. God created in my image and likeness just like in Romans 1.[/quote]

…make no mistake: man made god in his own image. Bronze age goatherders who knew very little about their own planet, solarsystem and the universe except for their imaginings: you believe their beliefs. The Romans perfected the mind-control mechanics et voilÃ??Ã?¡: the perfect religion was born…[/quote]
Too late Mr. Jetson. Who in his fervent denial of the goatherders God, which God whose broken image he still bears, continues to know nothing of ultimate consequence about his own planet, solarsystem and the universe except for his own imaginings.

That “mistake” has already been made. He who upholds all things by the Word of His power (Hebrews 1:3) and yet sits in the heavens and laughs at His enemies (the 2nd Psalm) while making the foolish things of the world to shame the wise (1 Corinthians 1) has made Himself far too real to me.[/quote]

…what does the “ultimate consequence” mean? The rapture, or judgment day?

[Tiribulus]

[quote]ephrem wrote:…what does the “ultimate consequence” mean? The rapture, or judgment day?[/quote]No, it means where did it/they/me (anything) ultimately come from and what do they mean? Science has succeeded in uncovering some more of the “what” in the last couple hundred years. That, to people like me, is unspeakably cool. To see God reveal more and more of His wondrous power and intelligence while giving the world less and less excuse? Right in character for Him.

For all the advances in understanding the “what”, fallen man is further than ever from understanding the "how’ or the “why”. In fact one is the vehicle for the other. It’s exactly as it should be. The more of Him they’re confronted with the further they take themselves from seeing Him.

Welcome to the twisted and corrupt world of sin. A state wherein dead men, alienated from the source of all true knowledge will pound their keyboards in vociferous denial of the hair growing on their own heads. To use your analogy.

[MikeTheBear]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…well okay. I will take the position that religous beliefs fuel, and are firmly based on/in, emotion. Take emotion out of the religious equation and you’re left with very little. I’m not saying that’s the case with you, but look at pentacostals and evangelists; they can only thrive because it relies on emotion for impact. Emotion is a vital component of the religious experience…
[/quote]

I understand what you are getting at, if you are talking about those Christian denominations that are of those names. Yes, that makes sense where you would get that idea. However, that is not my religion and I am not sure how you would go ahead an make an apologetic argument for it since I do not believe that is the correct way to do things.

However, when I say we have ways of discerning, I mean we actually have set practices for discernment. Check out: http://www.ccr.org.au/discern.html - based on S. Ignatius’ Discernment.[/quote]

…this jumped out: “When someone comes to experience the reality of the spiritual world and discovers that God is a personal being who is vitally interested in every aspect of their life, (…)” The rest reads like a manual for selfhypnosis setting-up conditions that’ll lead to preset experiences, very nifty…

…however, a personal being? Oddly enough, i’ve never seen god refered to being personal like this before, altough it should’ve been obvious to me that god would be perceived as such. It makes it even harder to fathom how one can believe the creator of everything and anything is a personal being. Anyway that’s neither here nor there…

…question: does everything i say, or any link that i post, just reinforce what you already believe? Because, somehow, nothing that’s said by the believers in the various threads made me reconsider my position, eventhough i learned a lot from you [plural]…
[/quote]

The discernment stuff was interesting - I had never read that before. However, I agree with ephrem. It’s really just a variation of self-hypnosis or meditation techniques. And at the risk of offending you, Chris, while I was reading that stuff the whole Star Wars saga came to mind - use the Force, Luke, don’t give in to hate. Interesting, nonetheless.[/quote]

Interesting enough, Star Wars has direct roots in a great heresy. Manicheanism. [/quote]

I did not know it was related to a specific religion. I had read that it had Christian undertones given that Annakin Skywalker’s conception was somewhat of a mystery - not necessarily a virgin birth but apparently his conception was asexual.

This is why I find these threads interesting. It would be interesting to hear everyone’s views on the Dan Brown books.

[dmaddox]

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…well okay. I will take the position that religous beliefs fuel, and are firmly based on/in, emotion. Take emotion out of the religious equation and you’re left with very little. I’m not saying that’s the case with you, but look at pentacostals and evangelists; they can only thrive because it relies on emotion for impact. Emotion is a vital component of the religious experience…
[/quote]

I understand what you are getting at, if you are talking about those Christian denominations that are of those names. Yes, that makes sense where you would get that idea. However, that is not my religion and I am not sure how you would go ahead an make an apologetic argument for it since I do not believe that is the correct way to do things.

However, when I say we have ways of discerning, I mean we actually have set practices for discernment. Check out: http://www.ccr.org.au/discern.html - based on S. Ignatius’ Discernment.[/quote]

…this jumped out: “When someone comes to experience the reality of the spiritual world and discovers that God is a personal being who is vitally interested in every aspect of their life, (…)” The rest reads like a manual for selfhypnosis setting-up conditions that’ll lead to preset experiences, very nifty…

…however, a personal being? Oddly enough, i’ve never seen god refered to being personal like this before, altough it should’ve been obvious to me that god would be perceived as such. It makes it even harder to fathom how one can believe the creator of everything and anything is a personal being. Anyway that’s neither here nor there…

…question: does everything i say, or any link that i post, just reinforce what you already believe? Because, somehow, nothing that’s said by the believers in the various threads made me reconsider my position, eventhough i learned a lot from you [plural]…
[/quote]

The discernment stuff was interesting - I had never read that before. However, I agree with ephrem. It’s really just a variation of self-hypnosis or meditation techniques. And at the risk of offending you, Chris, while I was reading that stuff the whole Star Wars saga came to mind - use the Force, Luke, don’t give in to hate. Interesting, nonetheless.[/quote]

Interesting enough, Star Wars has direct roots in a great heresy. Manicheanism. [/quote]

I did not know it was related to a specific religion. I had read that it had Christian undertones given that Annakin Skywalker’s conception was somewhat of a mystery - not necessarily a virgin birth but apparently his conception was asexual.

This is why I find these threads interesting. It would be interesting to hear everyone’s views on the Dan Brown books.[/quote]

I am going to leave this question up to the others that have actually read those books. Personally they are fiction and that is it.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Nah, it’s become clear that he’s not my type after all :-([/quote]

Hah! He’s^^ just trying to save face. Last night I told him to keep his big, meaty hands to himself. And left in a bustle and huff.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Well that’s a relief =][/quote]

Imagine my relief? To think I was almost in those big hairy arms of his. Turns out that dirty man had nothing but my hot bod on his mind. hummpff. Another near-tragedy averted.

[/quote]

I leave for the weekend and this is what happens. WoW.[/quote]
I know. I had to take a shower after simply reading something like that.[/quote]

I just went to confession.

[haney1]

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…well okay. I will take the position that religous beliefs fuel, and are firmly based on/in, emotion. Take emotion out of the religious equation and you’re left with very little. I’m not saying that’s the case with you, but look at pentacostals and evangelists; they can only thrive because it relies on emotion for impact. Emotion is a vital component of the religious experience…
[/quote]

I understand what you are getting at, if you are talking about those Christian denominations that are of those names. Yes, that makes sense where you would get that idea. However, that is not my religion and I am not sure how you would go ahead an make an apologetic argument for it since I do not believe that is the correct way to do things.

However, when I say we have ways of discerning, I mean we actually have set practices for discernment. Check out: http://www.ccr.org.au/discern.html - based on S. Ignatius’ Discernment.[/quote]

…this jumped out: “When someone comes to experience the reality of the spiritual world and discovers that God is a personal being who is vitally interested in every aspect of their life, (…)” The rest reads like a manual for selfhypnosis setting-up conditions that’ll lead to preset experiences, very nifty…

…however, a personal being? Oddly enough, i’ve never seen god refered to being personal like this before, altough it should’ve been obvious to me that god would be perceived as such. It makes it even harder to fathom how one can believe the creator of everything and anything is a personal being. Anyway that’s neither here nor there…

…question: does everything i say, or any link that i post, just reinforce what you already believe? Because, somehow, nothing that’s said by the believers in the various threads made me reconsider my position, eventhough i learned a lot from you [plural]…
[/quote]

The discernment stuff was interesting - I had never read that before. However, I agree with ephrem. It’s really just a variation of self-hypnosis or meditation techniques. And at the risk of offending you, Chris, while I was reading that stuff the whole Star Wars saga came to mind - use the Force, Luke, don’t give in to hate. Interesting, nonetheless.[/quote]

Interesting enough, Star Wars has direct roots in a great heresy. Manicheanism. [/quote]

I did not know it was related to a specific religion. I had read that it had Christian undertones given that Annakin Skywalker’s conception was somewhat of a mystery - not necessarily a virgin birth but apparently his conception was asexual.

This is why I find these threads interesting. It would be interesting to hear everyone’s views on the Dan Brown books.[/quote]

What do you want know about them? He melds fiction that he claims as fact, butchers actual facts, and fiction to create them.

Although I must admit my favorite thing that came of Dan Brown’s book was all the people who were in an uproar over the Gospel of Thomas. The desire to include it in the gospels is really funny. Especially since any person that I have ever run into who wanted it included always responded with a “no” when I asked had they ever read the gospel of Thomas.

When I follow up with why do you want the gospel included? they gave the reason from the book\movie it sets the record straight about women in the Bible.

Funny thing is the gospel of Thomas says the only way marry can get saved is if she becomes a man.

“Simon Peter said to them: Let Mariham go out from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Look, I will lead her that I may make her male, in order that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven”.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…well okay. I will take the position that religous beliefs fuel, and are firmly based on/in, emotion. Take emotion out of the religious equation and you’re left with very little. I’m not saying that’s the case with you, but look at pentacostals and evangelists; they can only thrive because it relies on emotion for impact. Emotion is a vital component of the religious experience…
[/quote]

I understand what you are getting at, if you are talking about those Christian denominations that are of those names. Yes, that makes sense where you would get that idea. However, that is not my religion and I am not sure how you would go ahead an make an apologetic argument for it since I do not believe that is the correct way to do things.

However, when I say we have ways of discerning, I mean we actually have set practices for discernment. Check out: http://www.ccr.org.au/discern.html - based on S. Ignatius’ Discernment.[/quote]

…this jumped out: “When someone comes to experience the reality of the spiritual world and discovers that God is a personal being who is vitally interested in every aspect of their life, (…)” The rest reads like a manual for selfhypnosis setting-up conditions that’ll lead to preset experiences, very nifty…

…however, a personal being? Oddly enough, i’ve never seen god refered to being personal like this before, altough it should’ve been obvious to me that god would be perceived as such. It makes it even harder to fathom how one can believe the creator of everything and anything is a personal being. Anyway that’s neither here nor there…

…question: does everything i say, or any link that i post, just reinforce what you already believe? Because, somehow, nothing that’s said by the believers in the various threads made me reconsider my position, eventhough i learned a lot from you [plural]…
[/quote]

The discernment stuff was interesting - I had never read that before. However, I agree with ephrem. It’s really just a variation of self-hypnosis or meditation techniques. And at the risk of offending you, Chris, while I was reading that stuff the whole Star Wars saga came to mind - use the Force, Luke, don’t give in to hate. Interesting, nonetheless.[/quote]

Interesting enough, Star Wars has direct roots in a great heresy. Manicheanism. [/quote]

I did not know it was related to a specific religion. I had read that it had Christian undertones given that Annakin Skywalker’s conception was somewhat of a mystery - not necessarily a virgin birth but apparently his conception was asexual.

This is why I find these threads interesting. It would be interesting to hear everyone’s views on the Dan Brown books.[/quote]

Well let me find the chapter on it. http://www.ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY5.TXT right here. We actually set up a Order to combat the Albigensian.

I got a good joke.

There were two seminaries discerning to which Order they were to be placed in.
The first seminarian said, “I think the Jesuits.”
The second seminarian said, “I think the Dominicans.”
The first one replied, “Which one is the best?”
Which the second one answered, “I do not know, let’s compared.”

What is similar about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?
Well, they were both founded by Spaniards, St. Dominic for the Dominicans, and St. Ignatius of Loyola for the Jesuits.
They were also both founded to combat heresy: the Dominicans to fight the Albigensians, and the Jesuits to fight the Protestants.

What is different about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?
Well, have you met any Albigensians lately?

[ephrem]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:…what does the “ultimate consequence” mean? The rapture, or judgment day?[/quote]No, it means where did it/they/me (anything) ultimately come from and what do they mean? Science has succeeded in uncovering some more of the “what” in the last couple hundred years. That, to people like me, is unspeakably cool. To see God reveal more and more of His wondrous power and intelligence while giving the world less and less excuse? Right in character for Him.

For all the advances in understanding the “what”, fallen man is further than ever from understanding the "how’ or the “why”. In fact one is the vehicle for the other. It’s exactly as it should be. The more of Him they’re confronted with the further they take themselves from seeing Him.

Welcome to the twisted and corrupt world of sin. A state wherein dead men, alienated from the source of all true knowledge will pound their keyboards in vociferous denial of the hair growing on their own heads. To use your analogy.
[/quote]

…speaking of dead men; if you have the chance to rent and watch “Dead Man” by Jim Jarmusch, with Johnny Depp, let me know your thoughts, i think you’ll enjoy it immensely: Dead Man (1995) - IMDb

[Tiribulus]

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:…what does the “ultimate consequence” mean? The rapture, or judgment day?[/quote]No, it means where did it/they/me (anything) ultimately come from and what do they mean? Science has succeeded in uncovering some more of the “what” in the last couple hundred years. That, to people like me, is unspeakably cool. To see God reveal more and more of His wondrous power and intelligence while giving the world less and less excuse? Right in character for Him.

For all the advances in understanding the “what”, fallen man is further than ever from understanding the "how’ or the “why”. In fact one is the vehicle for the other. It’s exactly as it should be. The more of Him they’re confronted with the further they take themselves from seeing Him.

Welcome to the twisted and corrupt world of sin. A state wherein dead men, alienated from the source of all true knowledge will pound their keyboards in vociferous denial of the hair growing on their own heads. To use your analogy.
[/quote]

…speaking of dead men; if you have the chance to rent and watch “Dead Man” by Jim Jarmusch, with Johnny Depp, let me know your thoughts, i think you’ll enjoy it immensely: Dead Man (1995) - IMDb
[/quote]
I have not seen this movie. I’ll check it out I suppose. I’m not sure what you’re motivation is here, but ok.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:[quote]dmaddox wrote:[quote]katzenjammer wrote:[quote]Chushin wrote:Nah, it’s become clear that he’s not my type after all :-([/quote]Hah! He’s^^ just trying to save face. Last night I told him to keep his big, meaty hands to himself. And left in a bustle and huff. [quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Well that’s a relief =][/quote]Imagine my relief? To think I was almost in those big hairy arms of his. Turns out that dirty man had nothing but my hot bod on his mind. hummpff. Another near-tragedy averted.[/quote]I leave for the weekend and this is what happens. WoW.[/quote]I know. I had to take a shower after simply reading something like that.[/quote]I just went to confession.[/quote]You have to be fibbin. You’d still be doing penance fer sher. =]

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:[quote]dmaddox wrote:[quote]katzenjammer wrote:[quote]Chushin wrote:Nah, it’s become clear that he’s not my type after all :-([/quote]Hah! He’s^^ just trying to save face. Last night I told him to keep his big, meaty hands to himself. And left in a bustle and huff. [quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Well that’s a relief =][/quote]Imagine my relief? To think I was almost in those big hairy arms of his. Turns out that dirty man had nothing but my hot bod on his mind. hummpff. Another near-tragedy averted.[/quote]I leave for the weekend and this is what happens. WoW.[/quote]I know. I had to take a shower after simply reading something like that.[/quote]I just went to confession.[/quote]You have to be fibbin. You’d still be doing penance fer sher. =]
[/quote]

Yeah pretty bad.