Misconceptions of Christianity 2

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1021

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…a second post of mine disappeared. It was only a picture of catholic clergy giving a sieg heil; totally on topic as far as i’m concerned. If anyone felt it was inappropiate, we can talk about it, just don’t sneak around…

[/quote]

It’s on the atheism-o-phobia thread…still there.[/quote]

…i really need a holiday self-facepalm
[/quote]Labor day’s comin up =]
[/quote]

…actually, not to rub it in or anything, but i have a 4 week paid vacation coming up in september. It’s just, i’m walking on my last legs as it is. Just 3 more weeks… 15 workdays… and then… happyhappyjoyjoy…
[/quote]Ya commie. Cryin like you’re headed for the canoe.
[/quote]

…lol, it’s a tough life i know, but i’m fully aware that it could’ve been much, much worse…

1022

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…a second post of mine disappeared. It was only a picture of catholic clergy giving a sieg heil; totally on topic as far as i’m concerned. If anyone felt it was inappropiate, we can talk about it, just don’t sneak around…

[/quote]

It’s on the atheism-o-phobia thread…still there.[/quote]

…i really need a holiday self-facepalm
[/quote]

Come to GA, we’ll grab a beer and talk football…Real football :)[/quote]

The one that isn’t played with the feet at all?That real football? ;p

1023

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…a second post of mine disappeared. It was only a picture of catholic clergy giving a sieg heil; totally on topic as far as i’m concerned. If anyone felt it was inappropiate, we can talk about it, just don’t sneak around…

[/quote]

This has been discussed. 1933 / '34, it wasn’t apparent Hitler was a bad guy yet, he promised the world, like obama :). Had the picture been taken in 1944-45 with out the gun to the head, then I have an issue. Lot’s of priests and laity were cooked in those ovens.[/quote]

…if one bad apple: Ratlines (World War II) - Wikipedia doesn’t mean all of them are bad, why condemn all atheists based on the actions of a few?
[/quote]

I never said all athiests are bad. Bad if you want a “who dun worse shit” pissing contest, Atheists win, hands down. Do you want to argue that people do bad things or is there another point?[/quote]

…the point is, and you should know this by now, just because people who claim to be atheist commit atrocities in name of some ideology, beit communism or fascism, does not mean that all atheist are devoid of morality. You know, like, not all catholic priest are pedophiles…
[/quote]

I know that, I haven’t said anything of the sort, especially lately…As a matter of fact I used you as an example in the past 2 or 3 pages…do a find on your name, see what I said.

1024

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…a second post of mine disappeared. It was only a picture of catholic clergy giving a sieg heil; totally on topic as far as i’m concerned. If anyone felt it was inappropiate, we can talk about it, just don’t sneak around…

[/quote]

It’s on the atheism-o-phobia thread…still there.[/quote]

…i really need a holiday self-facepalm
[/quote]

Come to GA, we’ll grab a beer and talk football…Real football :)[/quote]

…handegg you mean? If only US customs didn’t do anal cavity searches, i’d come. Contrary to popular belief, i don’t take kindly to a fist up my ass, lol…

1025

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…a second post of mine disappeared. It was only a picture of catholic clergy giving a sieg heil; totally on topic as far as i’m concerned. If anyone felt it was inappropiate, we can talk about it, just don’t sneak around…

[/quote]

It’s on the atheism-o-phobia thread…still there.[/quote]

…i really need a holiday self-facepalm
[/quote]

Come to GA, we’ll grab a beer and talk football…Real football :)[/quote]

The one that isn’t played with the feet at all?That real football? ;p[/quote]

Well it’d be tough to play with out feet, that’s for sure.

1026

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…a second post of mine disappeared. It was only a picture of catholic clergy giving a sieg heil; totally on topic as far as i’m concerned. If anyone felt it was inappropiate, we can talk about it, just don’t sneak around…

[/quote]

This has been discussed. 1933 / '34, it wasn’t apparent Hitler was a bad guy yet, he promised the world, like obama :). Had the picture been taken in 1944-45 with out the gun to the head, then I have an issue. Lot’s of priests and laity were cooked in those ovens.[/quote]

…if one bad apple: Ratlines (World War II) - Wikipedia doesn’t mean all of them are bad, why condemn all atheists based on the actions of a few?
[/quote]

I never said all athiests are bad. Bad if you want a “who dun worse shit” pissing contest, Atheists win, hands down. Do you want to argue that people do bad things or is there another point?[/quote]

…the point is, and you should know this by now, just because people who claim to be atheist commit atrocities in name of some ideology, beit communism or fascism, does not mean that all atheist are devoid of morality. You know, like, not all catholic priest are pedophiles…
[/quote]

I know that, I haven’t said anything of the sort, especially lately…As a matter of fact I used you as an example in the past 2 or 3 pages…do a find on your name, see what I said.[/quote]

…maybe i’m confusing threads again. Anyway, it’s good to know i’m not in the same boat with Stalin and Hitler anymore!

1027

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…a second post of mine disappeared. It was only a picture of catholic clergy giving a sieg heil; totally on topic as far as i’m concerned. If anyone felt it was inappropiate, we can talk about it, just don’t sneak around…

[/quote]

It’s on the atheism-o-phobia thread…still there.[/quote]

…i really need a holiday self-facepalm
[/quote]

Come to GA, we’ll grab a beer and talk football…Real football :)[/quote]

The one that isn’t played with the feet at all?That real football? ;p[/quote]

Well it’d be tough to play with out feet, that’s for sure.[/quote]

Hehehe…true,that.

1028

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…a second post of mine disappeared. It was only a picture of catholic clergy giving a sieg heil; totally on topic as far as i’m concerned. If anyone felt it was inappropiate, we can talk about it, just don’t sneak around…

[/quote]

This has been discussed. 1933 / '34, it wasn’t apparent Hitler was a bad guy yet, he promised the world, like obama :). Had the picture been taken in 1944-45 with out the gun to the head, then I have an issue. Lot’s of priests and laity were cooked in those ovens.[/quote]

…if one bad apple: Ratlines (World War II) - Wikipedia doesn’t mean all of them are bad, why condemn all atheists based on the actions of a few?
[/quote]

I never said all athiests are bad. Bad if you want a “who dun worse shit” pissing contest, Atheists win, hands down. Do you want to argue that people do bad things or is there another point?[/quote]

…the point is, and you should know this by now, just because people who claim to be atheist commit atrocities in name of some ideology, beit communism or fascism, does not mean that all atheist are devoid of morality. You know, like, not all catholic priest are pedophiles…
[/quote]

I know that, I haven’t said anything of the sort, especially lately…As a matter of fact I used you as an example in the past 2 or 3 pages…do a find on your name, see what I said.[/quote]

…maybe i’m confusing threads again. Anyway, it’s good to know i’m not in the same boat with Stalin and Hitler anymore!
[/quote]

Hey, don’t get cocky!

1029

700×500 91.3 KB

I have a presentation of the differences somewhere on my harddrive… ahh, here it is.

1030

[quote]pat wrote:
<<< You are going to carry hate in your heart over a building??? Are you sure you don’t want to rethink that?
[/quote]There are many things going on between the 2 of us here Pat, but unfortunately communication does not appear to be at the forefront.

I said:[quote]<<< The Vatican and the colossal maze of legalism that makes the law of death given us through Moses look like a pamphlet, are dual hilltop monuments to and warnings of exactly what happens when men exalt themselves in the place of God. Whatever Christ left us it cannot be the roman catholic church. If Rome we’re Christ’s “church” He’d be the devil. That is not His gospel. >>>[/quote]I know there were no fund raisers then Pat. I also do not charge every member of the church then with these crimes. However if you think Leo X was not in on the sale of indulgences to build that monstrosity thou hast sorely deceived thine self.

My point with the TV preacher thing was that when people make gain by fraud using religion they lose that gain when exposed. If some nutcase TV preacher living in a multi million dollar home is exposed as a fraud I,m gonna say that people won’t take his repentance seriously if he continues to live in that home. If a thief truly repents he returns the stolen goods and makes recompense, but not the “mother church”, oh no. She just says “sorry” (essentially) and moves on using all that ill gotten gain as she sees fit for centuries. That is not the behavior of a Christian individual to say nothing of a communion claiming to be the “one true most holy apostolic church”. It’s the theology I really hate most. The vatican is a monument to sin, but it is only a symptom of the what happens when men make the rules (tradition).

I also know that Luther was a papacy smitten catholic. No wonder we’re not communicating, you don’t read my posts. I know they’re long sometimes, but I actually DO read yours all the way through before responding. I have said that Luther believed in indulgences and that his 95 theses were motivated by love for Rome and a desire to see her repent. It’s several pages back. I also said that once it became clear to Luther that Rome was not interested in reform (read some more) he took the RCC glasses off and began to study the scriptures for himself and came away believing she was the whore of Babylon and the pope was the antichrist. So did Calvin.

1031

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]twarren777 wrote:
<<< Ok, what is His Gospel then?
[/quote]You tell me. That’s not sarcastic, I’m being honest. Wadda YOU say? BTW, if you’re really interested you can look back though this thread and even more so the first “misconceptions” thread (I think) to see what effect scripture and logic have on my friends here. It’s a few pages back I’m sure, in the PWI index. Take a deep breath and look around here http://forums.catholic.com/ for an object lesson in the utter legalistic bondage these people live in allegedly in the name Jesus. For an extra confused scowl inducing trek through spiritual no man’s land take a glance in the family life and sex threads. OMG is it heartbreaking watching some of these folks trying to decode “canon law” for their situation.
[/quote]

You call yourself a Christian and this is the kind of crap you spew? Still have failed to prove any evil from the church except for a very poor, fictional rendition of history.

Let’s try something new. Make an actual point and back it with facts, scripture or something concrete…

So what is it to “live in in the name Jesus”. Are we supposed to hate like you? Teach us.

1032

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]twarren777 wrote:
<<< Ok, what is His Gospel then?
[/quote]You tell me. That’s not sarcastic, I’m being honest. Wadda YOU say? BTW, if you’re really interested you can look back though this thread and even more so the first “misconceptions” thread (I think) to see what effect scripture and logic have on my friends here. It’s a few pages back I’m sure, in the PWI index. Take a deep breath and look around here http://forums.catholic.com/ for an object lesson in the utter legalistic bondage these people live in allegedly in the name Jesus. For an extra confused scowl inducing trek through spiritual no man’s land take a glance in the family life and sex threads. OMG is it heartbreaking watching some of these folks trying to decode “canon law” for their situation.
[/quote]

You call yourself a Christian and this is the kind of crap you spew? Still have failed to prove any evil from the church except for a very poor, fictional rendition of history.

Let’s try something new. Make an actual point and back it with facts, scripture or something concrete…

So what is it to “live in in the name Jesus”. Are we supposed to hate like you? Teach us.[/quote]
Just let him (and anybody else) read around there some. Yes Pat I call myself a Christian. The God of the bible is not a cosmic Barney, loving and cuddling everything and everybody on earth. Are you supposed to hate like me? No, you’re supposed to hate like Him. I strive to hate what He hates to the best of my present maturity and knowledge which I’m sure is very deficient in His sight, hence my celebration of His grace. I also conversely strive to love what He loves.

You think this unchristian?

1033

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
<<< You are going to carry hate in your heart over a building??? Are you sure you don’t want to rethink that?
[/quote]There are many things going on between the 2 of us here Pat, but unfortunately communication does not appear to be at the forefront.
[/quote]
Correct. You ask me to to prove my points with scripture. I do. I have proven my points with fact and scripture. You have made no points and failed to backup up any of you ad hominems with anything. Your accusations are baseless. So is your hate. Further you have proven you know absolutely nothing about Catholicism, what it’s about and what it means. You peruse forums where people, who are seeking to improve in a safe haven, yet you mock, baselessly. This says more about you then them. You mock Cannon Law, but cannot prove it false. I call this hypocrisy.

Oh I have read your posts alright. I find them factless, baseless, pointless and more or less pathetic. I have asked you to prove your points, one point any point, you cannot. You focus on St. Peter’s Cathedral? That’s it? And your point about it is poorly founded. The accusations you level were local to one region. Otherwise there is no evidence of foul play.
Note that I have not said anything bad about the faith you practice, it certainly it not because I cannot.

I have said this before and I will repeat. Jesus established the church, he said the “gates of hell will not prevail against it.” Mt 16:18. You, by saying what you are saying are de facto calling Jesus himself a liar, becuase the gates of hell prevailed.

My church is no more a whore than yours. My faith is no more a tool of satan than yours and you are no closer to God than I. You think your are better, you are not. You think what you believe is right, most assuredly it is not. I read no where in the scriptures where Jesus suggests you rally against the church of his own creation.
The bible cannon was assembled by the church you hate. The NT was written and created by the church you hate.

There is much good to be had, in faith. But you choose to be blind. Unless you can actually make an argument and it up with logic, facts, and/ or scripture, then I am ready to wash my hands of you and wish you the best. I will ask again, prove with logic, facts, and/ or scripture the evil of Catholicism, or go wallow in your hate of us. I have been more than tolerant.

1034

Pat, I’m saying the following in the calmest friendliest voice you’ve ever heard. You have proved nothing except how just plain bad Rome is at interpreting her “own” book. Others can judge for themselves.
I’m reposting this because it’s the reason debating bible with you is pretty much a waste of time.

From the previous page:
IF there were a prophetic passage of God breathed scripture that read:

[quote]Thus saith the Lord God of Israel. it shall come to pass in Rome, that an abomination in my sight calling herself my most holy one true apostolic church at the address of Vatican City State, 00120 Italy will arise deceiving men and committing whoredoms with the nations of the world. She shall build for herself using my name a temple like unto baal not seen since the very beginning and she shall do this by shamelessly fleecing the poor using fraud and deceit barely measured among the heathen.

She shall exalt herself in the place of the Most High declaring vain canons of law that I did not teach her as the very words of the Lord making naught of my statutes and thereby leading into bondage and death a multitude that can not be numbered among men. Do not go after her my people lest thou be stained with her iniquities and be made partakers in my judgments against her.[/quote]That obviously fictitious passage if it were authentic would have zero effect on catholics because somewhere in that colossal labyrinth of “tradition”, for which a literal “canon lawyer” is required to decipher, would be some explanation you’d cling to as an answer.

The point is as long your mind is under Rome’s control you will not see anything in the bible except what she wants you to see. It won’t make any difference what it says. You need to recheck your history too. Indulgences were big business long before Leo X who most assuredly knew what was going on as they abused those trusting people so they could build that new basilica. They’ve only expanded it from there.(the building and it’s content I mean) I really wish you’d calm down and recognize that nobody hate’s you.

1035

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Pat, I’m saying the following in the calmest friendliest voice you’ve ever heard. You have proved nothing except how just plain bad Rome is at interpreting her “own” book. Others can judge for themselves.
I’m reposting this because it’s the reason debating bible with you is pretty much a waste of time.

From the previous page:
IF there were a prophetic passage of God breathed scripture that read:

[quote]Thus saith the Lord God of Israel. it shall come to pass in Rome, that an abomination in my sight calling herself my most holy one true apostolic church at the address of Vatican City State, 00120 Italy will arise deceiving men and committing whoredoms with the nations of the world. She shall build for herself using my name a temple like unto baal not seen since the very beginning and she shall do this by shamelessly fleecing the poor using fraud and deceit barely measured among the heathen.

She shall exalt herself in the place of the Most High declaring vain canons of law that I did not teach her as the very words of the Lord making naught of my statutes and thereby leading into bondage and death a multitude that can not be numbered among men. Do not go after her my people lest thou be stained with her iniquities and be made partakers in my judgments against her.[/quote]That obviously fictitious passage if it were authentic would have zero effect on catholics because somewhere in that colossal labyrinth of “tradition”, for which a literal “canon lawyer” is required to decipher, would be some explanation you’d cling to as an answer.

The point is as long your mind is under Rome’s control you will not see anything in the bible except what she wants you to see. It won’t make any difference what it says. You need to recheck your history too. Indulgences were big business long before Leo X who most assuredly knew what was going on as they abused those trusting people so they could build that new basilica. They’ve only expanded it from there.(the building and it’s content I mean) I really wish you’d calm down and recognize that nobody hate’s you.[/quote]
?
I am actually stunned. This is it? A fictitious passage is your proof? This is your motivation? Well, I can officially say, we are done here. I feel confident that nothing you have presented has any basis in fact, logic, truth, or scripture. I feel compelled to lecture and wag a finger, but I won’t. There is nothing I can do about your state of mind. I have given this far more consideration than is good for me.
Sadly, in my own stupidity I fell to your prey. You have won, for I have paid waaaay to much attention to a forum. I got hooked, I got hornswaggled, but it was my doing.

What ever you think, may it serve you well. There is no possible way you can convince me that what you espoused is true. I have come to far, and have suffered to much, to fall for that.

Good luck and God bless you.

1036

I don’t understand the using of a fictitious passage as a tool of argument AT ALL.

1037

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
In conclusion, to hate the Catholic Church is to hate the Catholics, or its Creator, militant, suffering, and triumphant. Just like you cannot hate any other corporation without hating its owner/creator, and employees.[/quote]

This is a bit off-topic, but not entirely. What you are saying implies that I can’t dislike american foreign policy without disliking americans or hate the treatment of women in the muslim world without hating categorically all muslim men. In fact, it would then be impossible to hate the sin and love the sinner.
I would say, that while it is a common human weakness to behave and think in this way, there is nothing that forces it on a person, it is totally possible, a tad difficult maybe but totally possible, to hate the Catholic Church as an institution and still take catholics as they come, one by one. But this is a sidenote, Tirib stands for his own words, I’m not commenting on that.[/quote]

Um…what? American foriegn policy and the treatment of women in Islamic countries are nothing close to being as equivalent similies or metaphors to the Catholic Church. In America you are not blocked because you do not like foreign policy, you can hate foreign policy of America, throw a tantrum, commit civil disobedience, protest, and even possibly change foreign policy. You can speak out against it. I do not know much about Islam besides that Religious studies says they got their idea of treatment of women from Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Christians.

The Catholic Church is nothing like America. When people mention the Catholic Church they are talking about every Christian that is in communion with the Rome. If you do not hold every piece of dogma as truth, that doesn’t mean you need to know every word in it them, then you are excommunicated until you reconcile your difference with said dogma.

People for some reason think the Catholic Church is a building, or palace or something. You could take every single piece of real estate away from us. You could leave us in the streets. And we’d still be the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church is made up of people, not buildings. So, again, to hate the Catholic Church is to hate the Catholics. The Catholics make up the Catholic Church

1038

[quote]twarren777 wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if God is looking and listening to us and saying “OH MY SELF”…
After reading most of this post last week I think we have forgotten the most important thing or person that is on God’s mind, namely His Son Jesus.
We all have the same problem together no matter what you call yourself on earth the only way to spend eternity in heaven is faith and a life of believing in God’s son. “You will know them by their fruits”.
I have a Heinz 57 religion, growing up Catholic then when I could think for myself tried other religions such as Church of Christ, Pentecostal. UPC, Assembly of God, Charismatic, Baptist …
You get the picture. My conclusion is this that we all have to know how to deal with Proverbs 17,

15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

God being just cannot let us off the hook from sin and if He allows us to enter heaven in our sin He will be an abomination to Himself.
So what is the answer to this.

If we are saved what are we saved from?

I have learned most people want heaven with the pearly gates and streets of gold but would rather God not be there. My goal is not to see heaven but Him Who died for me and has saved me.[/quote]

We’re discussing Theology, that is a nice message I am sure. However, again this is about theology. A time and place, with seasons come different things.

1039

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…a second post of mine disappeared. It was only a picture of catholic clergy giving a sieg heil; totally on topic as far as i’m concerned. If anyone felt it was inappropiate, we can talk about it, just don’t sneak around…

[/quote]

This has been discussed. 1933 / '34, it wasn’t apparent Hitler was a bad guy yet, he promised the world, like obama :). Had the picture been taken in 1944-45 with out the gun to the head, then I have an issue. Lot’s of priests and laity were cooked in those ovens.[/quote]

…if one bad apple: Ratlines (World War II) - Wikipedia doesn’t mean all of them are bad, why condemn all atheists based on the actions of a few?
[/quote]

I never said all athiests are bad. Bad if you want a “who dun worse shit” pissing contest, Atheists win, hands down. Do you want to argue that people do bad things or is there another point?[/quote]

…the point is, and you should know this by now, just because people who claim to be atheist commit atrocities in name of some ideology, beit communism or fascism, does not mean that all atheist are devoid of morality. You know, like, not all catholic priest are pedophiles…
[/quote]

I know that, I haven’t said anything of the sort, especially lately…As a matter of fact I used you as an example in the past 2 or 3 pages…do a find on your name, see what I said.[/quote]

…maybe i’m confusing threads again. Anyway, it’s good to know i’m not in the same boat with Stalin and Hitler anymore!
[/quote]

Never were, if you were talking about what I said, I was pointing to the commonalities towards atheism and polities. Not the average atheist. Most people have a good set of morals.

1040

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Wall of non-sense.
[/quote]

Yeah…reconfirmed.