Misconceptions of Christianity 2

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
421

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.

Values are therefore never absolute, but relative to the culture or sociaty that holds those values.

An objective truth is: humans need air to survive. Without air we die. This is true for all humans no matter the circumstances.

That’s it.[/quote]

And this is right about where we reached our sticking point in the Arrest the Pope thread in which, based upon the relativist line of reasoning, you could not justifiably condemn the atrocities of Aztec society.

You know, if you think about it, from now on you are kind of going to have a hard time convincing any of us that the American War Machine is doing anything other than conforming to its own particular Zeitgeist. Our militaristic conquests are just an expression of the realities and needs of our society, no more or less “good” than those of Switzerland or, well, the Aztecs. [/quote]

…and i have said pretty much exactly that: that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a calculated move by the USA to secure natural resources, and that i can’t blame them for doing so because they’re thinking of #1…

…what bothers/bothered me is the blind acceptance by posters on this board of the lies the american public were told by their government to win their support for the wars…[/quote]

…but those lies were for our (society) own good…so it was OK. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems to fit with your views.[/quote]

…that they told lies to justify going to war isn’t what bothered me. Please read more carefully. That people believed the lies and defended their nation’s actions based on those lies, that’s what bothered me…
[/quote]

Jewbacca in another thread mentioned that Saddam Hussein moved all his WMD to Syria. I can not remember which thread, but we have to say that could be a reason the USA did not find anything in Iraq. This could mean there were not a lot of them so is that a reason to go to war, maybe not.

I would like to put out there that I find it funny how liberals in America want to help the poor so much, but when it comes to helping poor people in another country that can not help themselves they run and stick their heads in the sand or try to find a way to discredit the person trying to help them. People in Iraq are poorer, and repressed a whole lot more than Americans. Sorry for the rant.

422

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I know you guys are really digging the moral relativism talk, but what about contraception! Everyone loves contraception, well at least to talk about it. I mean who would think something as silly as a very funny shaped and thin balloon could cause so much tuff right?

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/AnscombeChastity.shtml

Great article on contraception, and not just because she is Catholic, but because it goes back to the early thinkers on the topic.[/quote]

All I have to say on contraception is that it feels better without it than with it on, and I am being serious.

If the RCC wants to not use it then that is fine with me. I personally have made sure I do not have another child, can you say vasectomy? My wife was extremely fertile, and my seed was not going to be denied. We have 3 children, and that is all that we can support. Children are to be a blessing, and when you can not support the child that becomes a nightmare. If you want 18 children go for it, Duggers, but man that is a lot of money that I do not have.

423

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.

Values are therefore never absolute, but relative to the culture or sociaty that holds those values.

An objective truth is: humans need air to survive. Without air we die. This is true for all humans no matter the circumstances.

That’s it.[/quote]

And this is right about where we reached our sticking point in the Arrest the Pope thread in which, based upon the relativist line of reasoning, you could not justifiably condemn the atrocities of Aztec society.

You know, if you think about it, from now on you are kind of going to have a hard time convincing any of us that the American War Machine is doing anything other than conforming to its own particular Zeitgeist. Our militaristic conquests are just an expression of the realities and needs of our society, no more or less “good” than those of Switzerland or, well, the Aztecs. [/quote]

…and i have said pretty much exactly that: that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a calculated move by the USA to secure natural resources, and that i can’t blame them for doing so because they’re thinking of #1…

…what bothers/bothered me is the blind acceptance by posters on this board of the lies the american public were told by their government to win their support for the wars…[/quote]

…but those lies were for our (society) own good…so it was OK. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems to fit with your views.[/quote]

…that they told lies to justify going to war isn’t what bothered me. Please read more carefully. That people believed the lies and defended their nation’s actions based on those lies, that’s what bothered me…
[/quote]

So you are saying that it was wrong for the USA to lie?[/quote]

…WTF?!

424

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]

Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]

Unfortuantely, it appears that “non-christians” are even wrong on their own terms. Which isn’t really all that surprising to me. What IS surprising, however, is that this revelation doesn’t seem to phase “non-christians” in the least. The web of deception is so artfully woven it’s almost admirable.

[/quote]

Care to make some sense of that nonsense?

Let me guess… every nonchristian knows the bible is right but is a liar? something like that?[/quote]

I’ll give you an example - I’ve never met an atheist who doesn’t believe that he or she is a “relativist,” proclaims a commitment to the idea that “all values are relative.” However, even on the face of it, this is a massive self-deception.

Like I said - even on their own terms, even without reference to Christianity - they are wrong.

[/quote]

Let me guess: your values are absolute and they’re absolute because the bible says so, and the bible is perfect because its says so…

something like that, yeah?[/quote]

Nope. You couldn’t be more wrong about me. Or about Christianity. Thanks for revealing the poverty of your understanding on both counts though! :slight_smile:

May I make a suggestion - if you’re really interested in bashing Christianity, why not do a little reading so as to lessen that poverty of yours?
[/quote]

So, instead of explaining the actual truth of the matter, you’re content with just telling me about how wrong I am and insulting me.

Yup, typical Christian.

Ok, then, *******, tell me where your absolute morality comes from if not from the bible, and tell me why you believe it, unless you believe the bible to be perfect.

Please, oh please, explain exactly how wrong I was.[/quote]

First, you are the one who started with the insults. Which I’m fine with - but you see, my friend, I’m going to reflect them right back at you. Don’t like it? Change your attitude then.

Second, I don’t mind swearing generally, but what you wrote is so incredibly insulting I hope you’ll take it down.

Third, yes, humans hold absolute values, whether they know it or not. Do you want to discuss this in a civil manner?

[/quote]

Trust me, when it comes to being offensive, I wont try to compete with christians.

I didn’t ask if humans hold absolute values, I asked what makes your values absolute, if not that they come from the (perfect, inerrant) bible.[/quote]

Natural Law

425

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Natural Law[/quote]

…please show, in no uncertain terms, that natural law that is true for each and everyone of us, no matter the circumstances…

426

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.

Values are therefore never absolute, but relative to the culture or sociaty that holds those values.

An objective truth is: humans need air to survive. Without air we die. This is true for all humans no matter the circumstances.

That’s it.[/quote]

And this is right about where we reached our sticking point in the Arrest the Pope thread in which, based upon the relativist line of reasoning, you could not justifiably condemn the atrocities of Aztec society.

You know, if you think about it, from now on you are kind of going to have a hard time convincing any of us that the American War Machine is doing anything other than conforming to its own particular Zeitgeist. Our militaristic conquests are just an expression of the realities and needs of our society, no more or less “good” than those of Switzerland or, well, the Aztecs. [/quote]

…and i have said pretty much exactly that: that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a calculated move by the USA to secure natural resources, and that i can’t blame them for doing so because they’re thinking of #1…

…what bothers/bothered me is the blind acceptance by posters on this board of the lies the american public were told by their government to win their support for the wars…[/quote]

…but those lies were for our (society) own good…so it was OK. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems to fit with your views.[/quote]

…that they told lies to justify going to war isn’t what bothered me. Please read more carefully. That people believed the lies and defended their nation’s actions based on those lies, that’s what bothered me…
[/quote]

So you are saying that it was wrong for the USA to lie?[/quote]

…WTF?!
[/quote]

Well?

427

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.

Values are therefore never absolute, but relative to the culture or sociaty that holds those values.

An objective truth is: humans need air to survive. Without air we die. This is true for all humans no matter the circumstances.

That’s it.[/quote]

And this is right about where we reached our sticking point in the Arrest the Pope thread in which, based upon the relativist line of reasoning, you could not justifiably condemn the atrocities of Aztec society.

You know, if you think about it, from now on you are kind of going to have a hard time convincing any of us that the American War Machine is doing anything other than conforming to its own particular Zeitgeist. Our militaristic conquests are just an expression of the realities and needs of our society, no more or less “good” than those of Switzerland or, well, the Aztecs. [/quote]

…and i have said pretty much exactly that: that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a calculated move by the USA to secure natural resources, and that i can’t blame them for doing so because they’re thinking of #1…

…what bothers/bothered me is the blind acceptance by posters on this board of the lies the american public were told by their government to win their support for the wars…[/quote]

…but those lies were for our (society) own good…so it was OK. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems to fit with your views.[/quote]

…that they told lies to justify going to war isn’t what bothered me. Please read more carefully. That people believed the lies and defended their nation’s actions based on those lies, that’s what bothered me…
[/quote]

So you are saying that it was wrong for the USA to lie?[/quote]

…WTF?!
[/quote]

Well?[/quote]

…you and katzie have the same reading comprehension problems. I’ll just C&P here:

…that they told lies to justify going to war isn’t what bothered me. Please read more carefully. That people believed the lies and defended their nation’s actions based on those lies, that’s what bothered me…

428

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.[/quote]

Okay. Good - that’s something we can agree on. And prolly build on.

I don’t mean to be a pain in the ass, Ephrem, but your therefore^ here implies that you have set up a chain of reasoning. The second statement neither implies nor proves the second.

Question: what do you mean exactly by “relative to the culture” - do you mean that not all cultures share a value (say, human life) or that not all cultures practice that value in the same way?

429

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.

Values are therefore never absolute, but relative to the culture or sociaty that holds those values.

An objective truth is: humans need air to survive. Without air we die. This is true for all humans no matter the circumstances.

That’s it.[/quote]

And this is right about where we reached our sticking point in the Arrest the Pope thread in which, based upon the relativist line of reasoning, you could not justifiably condemn the atrocities of Aztec society.

You know, if you think about it, from now on you are kind of going to have a hard time convincing any of us that the American War Machine is doing anything other than conforming to its own particular Zeitgeist. Our militaristic conquests are just an expression of the realities and needs of our society, no more or less “good” than those of Switzerland or, well, the Aztecs. [/quote]

…and i have said pretty much exactly that: that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a calculated move by the USA to secure natural resources, and that i can’t blame them for doing so because they’re thinking of #1…

…what bothers/bothered me is the blind acceptance by posters on this board of the lies the american public were told by their government to win their support for the wars…[/quote]

…but those lies were for our (society) own good…so it was OK. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems to fit with your views.[/quote]

…that they told lies to justify going to war isn’t what bothered me. Please read more carefully. That people believed the lies and defended their nation’s actions based on those lies, that’s what bothered me…
[/quote]

So you are saying that it was wrong for the USA to lie?[/quote]

…WTF?!
[/quote]

Well?[/quote]

…you and katzie have the same reading comprehension problems. I’ll just C&P here:

…that they told lies to justify going to war isn’t what bothered me. Please read more carefully. That people believed the lies and defended their nation’s actions based on those lies, that’s what bothered me…
[/quote]

Ok. Let me start again. Why are you not bothered by the deception, but bothered by the belief of that deception?

430

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.

Values are therefore never absolute, but relative to the culture or sociaty that holds those values.

An objective truth is: humans need air to survive. Without air we die. This is true for all humans no matter the circumstances.

That’s it.[/quote]

And this is right about where we reached our sticking point in the Arrest the Pope thread in which, based upon the relativist line of reasoning, you could not justifiably condemn the atrocities of Aztec society.

You know, if you think about it, from now on you are kind of going to have a hard time convincing any of us that the American War Machine is doing anything other than conforming to its own particular Zeitgeist. Our militaristic conquests are just an expression of the realities and needs of our society, no more or less “good” than those of Switzerland or, well, the Aztecs. [/quote]

…and i have said pretty much exactly that: that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a calculated move by the USA to secure natural resources, and that i can’t blame them for doing so because they’re thinking of #1…

…what bothers/bothered me is the blind acceptance by posters on this board of the lies the american public were told by their government to win their support for the wars…[/quote]

…but those lies were for our (society) own good…so it was OK. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems to fit with your views.[/quote]

…that they told lies to justify going to war isn’t what bothered me. Please read more carefully. That people believed the lies and defended their nation’s actions based on those lies, that’s what bothered me…
[/quote]

So you are saying that it was wrong for the USA to lie?[/quote]

…WTF?!
[/quote]

Well?[/quote]

…you and katzie have the same reading comprehension problems. I’ll just C&P here:

…that they told lies to justify going to war isn’t what bothered me. Please read more carefully. That people believed the lies and defended their nation’s actions based on those lies, that’s what bothered me…
[/quote]

Ok. Let me start again. Why are you not bothered by the deception, but bothered by the belief of that deception?[/quote]

It is rather funny, eph, to me, where these threads end up. I’ve now read you admit that you are not arguing the immorality of America’s purported atrocities. However, that a group of Americans (carried forth to their decision on a wave of the frothiest Zeitgeist, no less!) had the audacity to believe what they were told, and then to act, based upon what they believed to be true! Well now, this is just unacceptable.

You’ll forgive me if I, too, require some clarification of your point here.

431

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.[/quote]

Okay. Good - that’s something we can agree on. And prolly build on.

I don’t mean to be a pain in the ass, Ephrem, but your therefore^ here implies that you have set up a chain of reasoning. The second statement neither implies nor proves the second.

Question: what do you mean exactly by “relative to the culture” - do you mean that not all cultures share a value (say, human life) or that not all cultures practice that value in the same way?

[/quote]

…this goes against my better judgment, but anyway: i said “therefore” because values are inherently subjective and relative. For instance, “it’s wrong to kill another human being”, this in itself is an absolute statement, but as soon as you make an exception like capital punishment, war or selfdefense the statement becomes relative…

…relative to the culture means, for instance: male circumcision in the USA is widespread even if there is no religious or medical reason for it. It’s seen as normal. Here in the Netherlands boys aren’t circumcised without religious or medical reasons. This is seen as normal. This is what “relative to the culture” means…

432

[quote]cueball wrote:

Ok. Let me start again. Why are you not bothered by the deception, but bothered by the belief of that deception?[/quote]

…because to me it’s a symptom of blind ignorance, overt patriotism and a superficial mind…

433

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.[/quote]

Okay. Good - that’s something we can agree on. And prolly build on.

I don’t mean to be a pain in the ass, Ephrem, but your therefore^ here implies that you have set up a chain of reasoning. The second statement neither implies nor proves the second.

Question: what do you mean exactly by “relative to the culture” - do you mean that not all cultures share a value (say, human life) or that not all cultures practice that value in the same way?

[/quote]

…this goes against my better judgment, but anyway: i said “therefore” because values are inherently subjective and relative. [/quote]

But therefore implies a chain of reasoning. You’re either assuming, proposing, declaring, or whatever. That’s different.

That’s simply not true. Say the value statement is, for example, “human life is exceedingly precious.”

If I take a life in revenge; if I execute in the name of justice; if I kill to prevent futher deaths, et cetera…

…Each one of these actions aren’t exceptions. They are, in fact, affirmations of the value.

434

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

Ok. Let me start again. Why are you not bothered by the deception, but bothered by the belief of that deception?[/quote]

…because to me it’s a symptom of blind ignorance, overt patriotism and a superficial mind…[/quote]

Can you answer the first part of the question as well?

435

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.[/quote]

Okay. Good - that’s something we can agree on. And prolly build on.

I don’t mean to be a pain in the ass, Ephrem, but your therefore^ here implies that you have set up a chain of reasoning. The second statement neither implies nor proves the second.

Question: what do you mean exactly by “relative to the culture” - do you mean that not all cultures share a value (say, human life) or that not all cultures practice that value in the same way?

[/quote]

…this goes against my better judgment, but anyway: i said “therefore” because values are inherently subjective and relative. [/quote]

But therefore implies a chain of reasoning. You’re either assuming, proposing, declaring, or whatever. That’s different.

That’s simply not true. Say the value statement is, for example, “human life is exceedingly precious.”

If I take a life in revenge; if I execute in the name of justice; if I kill to prevent futher deaths, et cetera…

…Each one of these actions aren’t exceptions. They are, in fact, affirmations of the value.

[/quote]

…allright, give me an example of an absolute value?

436

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

Ok. Let me start again. Why are you not bothered by the deception, but bothered by the belief of that deception?[/quote]

…because to me it’s a symptom of blind ignorance, overt patriotism and a superficial mind…[/quote]

Can you answer the first part of the question as well?[/quote]

…because politicians have a hard time finding cannon fodder if they tell the truth. Their objective is maintaining a powerbase that requires natural resources that can’t be found at home, but their warmachine is perfectly capable of securing that for them. A populace that’s frothing at the mouth in anger is glad to send their sons and daughters across the globe to kill and die for the glory and honor and safety[!] of the nation…

…so i don’t blame them for trying; i blame you [the general you] for falling for it…

437

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.[/quote]

Okay. Good - that’s something we can agree on. And prolly build on.

I don’t mean to be a pain in the ass, Ephrem, but your therefore^ here implies that you have set up a chain of reasoning. The second statement neither implies nor proves the second.

Question: what do you mean exactly by “relative to the culture” - do you mean that not all cultures share a value (say, human life) or that not all cultures practice that value in the same way?

[/quote]

…this goes against my better judgment, but anyway: i said “therefore” because values are inherently subjective and relative. [/quote]

But therefore implies a chain of reasoning. You’re either assuming, proposing, declaring, or whatever. That’s different.

That’s simply not true. Say the value statement is, for example, “human life is exceedingly precious.”

If I take a life in revenge; if I execute in the name of justice; if I kill to prevent futher deaths, et cetera…

…Each one of these actions aren’t exceptions. They are, in fact, affirmations of the value.

[/quote]

…allright, give me an example of an absolute value?[/quote]

Off the top of my head, how about the one I just stated? It’s neutral, not “religious” in any obvious sense; doubtless you hold it.

To wit: “Human life is exceedingly precious.”

438

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.[/quote]

Okay. Good - that’s something we can agree on. And prolly build on.

I don’t mean to be a pain in the ass, Ephrem, but your therefore^ here implies that you have set up a chain of reasoning. The second statement neither implies nor proves the second.

Question: what do you mean exactly by “relative to the culture” - do you mean that not all cultures share a value (say, human life) or that not all cultures practice that value in the same way?

[/quote]

…this goes against my better judgment, but anyway: i said “therefore” because values are inherently subjective and relative. [/quote]

But therefore implies a chain of reasoning. You’re either assuming, proposing, declaring, or whatever. That’s different.

That’s simply not true. Say the value statement is, for example, “human life is exceedingly precious.”

If I take a life in revenge; if I execute in the name of justice; if I kill to prevent futher deaths, et cetera…

…Each one of these actions aren’t exceptions. They are, in fact, affirmations of the value.

[/quote]

…allright, give me an example of an absolute value?[/quote]

Off the top of my head, how about the one I just stated? It’s neutral, not “religious” in any obvious sense; doubtless you hold it.

To wit: “Human life is exceedingly precious.”

[/quote]

…yes, that’s an absolute statement of value, just like the one i made earlier, “it’s wrong to kill another human being”…

439

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Objective truths are truths that are equally true for each and everyone of us, no mattter the circumstances.[/quote]

Okay. Good - that’s something we can agree on. And prolly build on.

I don’t mean to be a pain in the ass, Ephrem, but your therefore^ here implies that you have set up a chain of reasoning. The second statement neither implies nor proves the second.

Question: what do you mean exactly by “relative to the culture” - do you mean that not all cultures share a value (say, human life) or that not all cultures practice that value in the same way?

[/quote]

…this goes against my better judgment, but anyway: i said “therefore” because values are inherently subjective and relative. [/quote]

But therefore implies a chain of reasoning. You’re either assuming, proposing, declaring, or whatever. That’s different.

That’s simply not true. Say the value statement is, for example, “human life is exceedingly precious.”

If I take a life in revenge; if I execute in the name of justice; if I kill to prevent futher deaths, et cetera…

…Each one of these actions aren’t exceptions. They are, in fact, affirmations of the value.

[/quote]

…allright, give me an example of an absolute value?[/quote]

Off the top of my head, how about the one I just stated? It’s neutral, not “religious” in any obvious sense; doubtless you hold it.

To wit: “Human life is exceedingly precious.”

[/quote]

…yes, that’s an absolute statement of value, just like the one i made earlier, “it’s wrong to kill another human being”…
[/quote]

Right.

And you said: [quote]For instance, “it’s wrong to kill another human being”, this in itself is an absolute statement, but as soon as you make an exception like capital punishment, war or selfdefense the statement becomes relative…[/quote]

To which I replied:

That’s simply not true. Say the value statement is, for example, “human life is exceedingly precious.”

If I take a life in revenge; if I execute in the name of justice; if I kill to prevent futher deaths, et cetera…

PLEASE NOTE MY CONCLUSION: …Each one of these^ actions aren’t exceptions that render the value relative. They are, in fact, deep affirmations of the very same value.

440

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…yes, that’s an absolute statement of value, just like the one i made earlier, “it’s wrong to kill another human being”…
[/quote]

Right.

And you said: [quote]For instance, “it’s wrong to kill another human being”, this in itself is an absolute statement, but as soon as you make an exception like capital punishment, war or selfdefense the statement becomes relative…[/quote]

To which I replied:

That’s simply not true. Say the value statement is, for example, “human life is exceedingly precious.”

If I take a life in revenge; if I execute in the name of justice; if I kill to prevent futher deaths, et cetera…

PLEASE NOTE MY CONCLUSION: …Each one of these^ actions aren’t exceptions. They are, in fact, affirmations of the very same value.

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…i don’t agree that they are affirmations of the value. I think they’re exceptions. Now what?