Misconceptions of Christianity 2

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
381

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
<<< …and the general premiss of that post is?
[/quote]
“2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men.”

[quote]ephrem wrote in the arrest the pope thread:
…for me personally, humankind is the only kind of animal that is able, within limits, to make a conscious choice whether an act benefits the tribe or not, and it’s this ability to choose that’s the foundation of morality. Many, if not all, acts of ‘evil’ are the result of a sick mind; a mind whose ability to make the appropriate choice is obscured by trauma or fascination…[/quote]You wanna talk about a subjective leap in the name of self comfort? Then again you already said your view of life was subjective, a thing I praised you for due to it’s honesty. [/quote]

…apparently we’re living proof that the premiss is true, but i can’t escape the feeling that “subjectivity” is as misunderstood [by you] as the term “relative” is misunderstood by others [and you]…

382

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]haney1 wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…man, you sure know how to fuck up the layout, lol!
[/quote]
I double and tripled checked that the each quote statement had a closing remark. It just didn’t want to play nice.

perhaps, but that is not the goal of the 2nd and 3rd noble truth. The idea is to remove them.
Look at the oral traditions of Buddha himself. He left his family and didn’t reunite with them until they came looking for him. There is an attempt to remove your self from the emotions that are accompanied with relationships.

The problem is the eight fold path is at odds with the noble truths. Buddhism is ok with this because all eastern religions enjoy contradiction. They embrace them at the core. Even the idea of attaining nirvana is a problem, because you have to desire it with out desiring it.

[quote]…how is dialectic philosophy different from christian philosophy [for instance]? I’m good continueing, but if you don’t feel like it, okay. This little talk actually inspired me to revisit buddhist philosophy…

Not sure how to answer that.

Christianity isn’t a philosophy, but it can contain philosophy in it. It can be and has been measured by philosophy. So that would be the difference.

Now dialectic philosophy would say Christianity and Buddhism are compatible.
Where as the this or that philosophy would say they are not.

I am good to continue at this point.

[/quote]

I am not denying that the philosophy has more with in it. I also am not saying buddhism is wrong. I am saying that I find there to be contradictions with in it. Which are acknowledged by some of the sects of buddhism.

In fairness though Ephrem do you think there is more to Christianity that you have deduced, or do you apply logic to the system find contradictions and judge it based partially on that?

I am willing to let the buddhist discussion go since it seems we are not making any progress.

383

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]

Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.

384

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]

Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]

Unfortuantely, it appears that “non-christians” are even wrong on their own terms. Which isn’t really all that surprising to me. What IS surprising, however, is that this revelation doesn’t seem to phase “non-christians” in the least. The web of deception is so artfully woven it’s almost admirable.

385

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]From the first page of the first “misconceptions” thread:[quote]There are 2 species of man in the world since the fulfillment of the law in Christ. Those who by free grace(this cannot be emphasized enough) have been born again into the life and mind of the resurrected Son of God and those who have not and remain for the moment dead in trespasses and sins.

To the former every single last speck of data possible from the movement of sub atomic particles to the majesty of the intelligent moral agency of the image of God in man having been created male and female. Everything, Screams the plainly self evident truth that He is and we are His children having been redeemed from death to life.

To the latter every single last speck of data screams one of a thousand derivative versions of anything but that. It is their nature inherited from the first Adam. A nature it must never be forgotten we still share in our old self. >>>[/quote]

386

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]

Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]

Unfortuantely, it appears that “non-christians” are even wrong on their own terms. Which isn’t really all that surprising to me. What IS surprising, however, is that this revelation doesn’t seem to phase “non-christians” in the least. The web of deception is so artfully woven it’s almost admirable.

[/quote]

Care to make some sense of that nonsense?

Let me guess… every nonchristian knows the bible is right but is a liar? something like that?

387

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
P.S. I am reading Dimiter, by William Peter Blatty. The guy that wrote The Exorcist and Legion anyone read this guy? Heard this book is supposed to be beyond anything written, yet.[/quote]

I’ve never read those actually - are they good? A few years back I read Amorth on exorcisms - he is excellent.

For a few days now, I’ve been transfixed by this book - I imagine you’d like it in particular; but I think any Christian would get something out of it. Every once in a while I come across a book that I give to all my friends; this is one of them.

It’s the best description of sacramentalism - broadly considered - I’ve ever read.

Edit: By the way, Schmemann is an Eastern Orthodox theologian.

388

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]From the first page of the first “misconceptions” thread:[quote]There are 2 species of man in the world since the fulfillment of the law in Christ. Those who by free grace(this cannot be emphasized enough) have been born again into the life and mind of the resurrected Son of God and those who have not and remain for the moment dead in trespasses and sins.

To the former every single last speck of data possible from the movement of sub atomic particles to the majesty of the intelligent moral agency of the image of God in man having been created male and female. Everything, Screams the plainly self evident truth that He is and we are His children having been redeemed from death to life.

To the latter every single last speck of data screams one of a thousand derivative versions of anything but that. It is their nature inherited from the first Adam. A nature it must never be forgotten we still share in our old self. >>>[/quote][/quote]

You’re just repeating the same thing.

Look, you’ve (christians) yet to prove that there is a sky wizard. Ever.

You can create this airtight circle of logic (The bible is perfect, the bible says god exists, therefore god exists because the bible says so, the bible is right because it says its right) without any room for thought or reason to get into, but pompously restating your subjective beliefs as objective fact is redic. Give it up.

389

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]

Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]

Unfortuantely, it appears that “non-christians” are even wrong on their own terms. Which isn’t really all that surprising to me. What IS surprising, however, is that this revelation doesn’t seem to phase “non-christians” in the least. The web of deception is so artfully woven it’s almost admirable.

[/quote]

Care to make some sense of that nonsense?

Let me guess… every nonchristian knows the bible is right but is a liar? something like that?[/quote]

I’ll give you an example - I’ve never met an atheist who doesn’t believe that he or she is a “relativist,” proclaims a commitment to the idea that “all values are relative.” However, even on the face of it, this is a massive self-deception.

Like I said - even on their own terms, even without reference to Christianity - they are wrong.

390

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]From the first page of the first “misconceptions” thread:[quote]There are 2 species of man in the world since the fulfillment of the law in Christ. Those who by free grace(this cannot be emphasized enough) have been born again into the life and mind of the resurrected Son of God and those who have not and remain for the moment dead in trespasses and sins.

To the former every single last speck of data possible from the movement of sub atomic particles to the majesty of the intelligent moral agency of the image of God in man having been created male and female. Everything, Screams the plainly self evident truth that He is and we are His children having been redeemed from death to life.

To the latter every single last speck of data screams one of a thousand derivative versions of anything but that. It is their nature inherited from the first Adam. A nature it must never be forgotten we still share in our old self. >>>[/quote][/quote]

You’re just repeating the same thing.

Look, you’ve (christians) yet to prove that there is a sky wizard. Ever.

You can create this airtight circle of logic (The bible is perfect, the bible says god exists, therefore god exists because the bible says so, the bible is right because it says its right) without any room for thought or reason to get into, but pompously restating your subjective beliefs as objective fact is redic. Give it up.[/quote]

This is why it’s best for us to come to your ground. So, what do you believe, partner?

391

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]

Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]

Unfortuantely, it appears that “non-christians” are even wrong on their own terms. Which isn’t really all that surprising to me. What IS surprising, however, is that this revelation doesn’t seem to phase “non-christians” in the least. The web of deception is so artfully woven it’s almost admirable.

[/quote]

Care to make some sense of that nonsense?

Let me guess… every nonchristian knows the bible is right but is a liar? something like that?[/quote]

I’ll give you an example - I’ve never met an atheist who doesn’t believe that he or she is a “relativist,” proclaims a commitment to the idea that “all values are relative.” However, even on the face of it, this is a massive self-deception.

Like I said - even on their own terms, even without reference to Christianity - they are wrong.

[/quote]

Let me guess: your values are absolute and they’re absolute because the bible says so, and the bible is perfect because its says so…

something like that, yeah?

392

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]From the first page of the first “misconceptions” thread:[quote]There are 2 species of man in the world since the fulfillment of the law in Christ. Those who by free grace(this cannot be emphasized enough) have been born again into the life and mind of the resurrected Son of God and those who have not and remain for the moment dead in trespasses and sins.

To the former every single last speck of data possible from the movement of sub atomic particles to the majesty of the intelligent moral agency of the image of God in man having been created male and female. Everything, Screams the plainly self evident truth that He is and we are His children having been redeemed from death to life.

To the latter every single last speck of data screams one of a thousand derivative versions of anything but that. It is their nature inherited from the first Adam. A nature it must never be forgotten we still share in our old self. >>>[/quote][/quote]

You’re just repeating the same thing.

Look, you’ve (christians) yet to prove that there is a sky wizard. Ever.

You can create this airtight circle of logic (The bible is perfect, the bible says god exists, therefore god exists because the bible says so, the bible is right because it says its right) without any room for thought or reason to get into, but pompously restating your subjective beliefs as objective fact is redic. Give it up.[/quote]

This is why it’s best for us to come to your ground. So, what do you believe, partner?

[/quote]

Um, nope. Its best to focus on the fact that millions of people keep saying the same damn thing with no proof or hard evidence.

Only the evidence they “see” AFTER believing. The fact that you people cant see how stupid that is worries me.

393

Oh, cool, another “Misconception of Christianity”: Christians think that, if they disprove any other philosophy or belief, they have somehow proven theirs right.

394

But since you asked so kindly, I’ll tell you what I believe: I believe the universe exists.

Go ahead, disprove that one, buddy.

395

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]

Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]

Unfortuantely, it appears that “non-christians” are even wrong on their own terms. Which isn’t really all that surprising to me. What IS surprising, however, is that this revelation doesn’t seem to phase “non-christians” in the least. The web of deception is so artfully woven it’s almost admirable.

[/quote]

Care to make some sense of that nonsense?

Let me guess… every nonchristian knows the bible is right but is a liar? something like that?[/quote]

I’ll give you an example - I’ve never met an atheist who doesn’t believe that he or she is a “relativist,” proclaims a commitment to the idea that “all values are relative.” However, even on the face of it, this is a massive self-deception.

Like I said - even on their own terms, even without reference to Christianity - they are wrong.

[/quote]

Let me guess: your values are absolute and they’re absolute because the bible says so, and the bible is perfect because its says so…

something like that, yeah?[/quote]

Nope. You couldn’t be more wrong about me. Or about Christianity. Thanks for revealing the poverty of your understanding on both counts though! :slight_smile:

May I make a suggestion - if you’re really interested in bashing Christianity, why not do a little reading so as to lessen that poverty of yours?

396

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Oh, cool, another “Misconception of Christianity”: Christians think that, if they disprove any other philosophy or belief, they have somehow proven theirs right.[/quote]

Nope.

I hope I can speak for others when I say that^.

Sorry. NIce try!

397

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]From the first page of the first “misconceptions” thread:[quote]There are 2 species of man in the world since the fulfillment of the law in Christ. Those who by free grace(this cannot be emphasized enough) have been born again into the life and mind of the resurrected Son of God and those who have not and remain for the moment dead in trespasses and sins.

To the former every single last speck of data possible from the movement of sub atomic particles to the majesty of the intelligent moral agency of the image of God in man having been created male and female. Everything, Screams the plainly self evident truth that He is and we are His children having been redeemed from death to life.

To the latter every single last speck of data screams one of a thousand derivative versions of anything but that. It is their nature inherited from the first Adam. A nature it must never be forgotten we still share in our old self. >>>[/quote][/quote]

You’re just repeating the same thing.

Look, you’ve (christians) yet to prove that there is a sky wizard. Ever.

You can create this airtight circle of logic (The bible is perfect, the bible says god exists, therefore god exists because the bible says so, the bible is right because it says its right) without any room for thought or reason to get into, but pompously restating your subjective beliefs as objective fact is redic. Give it up.[/quote]

This is why it’s best for us to come to your ground. So, what do you believe, partner?

[/quote]

Um, nope. Its best to focus on the fact that millions of people keep saying the same damn thing with no proof or hard evidence.

Only the evidence they “see” AFTER believing. The fact that you people cant see how stupid that is worries me.[/quote]

Good - that’s fine. So let’s focus on your beliefs then, shall we?

398

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
But since you asked so kindly, I’ll tell you what I believe: I believe the universe exists.

Go ahead, disprove that one, buddy.[/quote]

You’ll get no argument from me there. That’s actually quite a nice start. We agree! Now, what - in your mind - follows from that fact. Maybe nothing, I’m just asking!

399

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
All the different philosophies and religions of the world are fascinating to study. I read Hegel, Nietzsche, Kant and Kierkegaard (and others years back), but your homeboy Van Til taught me that there are really only 2 world views. There is the view of the fallen autonomous man who sinfully begins without and inevitably ends without the triune God of the bible regardless of what specific packaging he sells it to himself in and the view of the new creature in Christ whose resurrected life tells him that absolutely everything begins with the triune God of the bible.

2 different and utterly irreconcilable paradigms of reality. Every “fact” is different for these 2 men. 2 + 2 = 4 means something totally different to the man who sees the mind of God behind the order in the universe than it does to the man who refuses to. What’s the point? The point is whether you call it Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, rationalism, empiricism, existentialism, Marxism, agnosticism or atheism it all comes down to a different paint job on the same vehicle.[/quote]

Read: There are christians and there are nonchristians, and the nonchristians are wrong, wrong wrong, and the christians are right.

Tired.[/quote]

Unfortuantely, it appears that “non-christians” are even wrong on their own terms. Which isn’t really all that surprising to me. What IS surprising, however, is that this revelation doesn’t seem to phase “non-christians” in the least. The web of deception is so artfully woven it’s almost admirable.

[/quote]

Care to make some sense of that nonsense?

Let me guess… every nonchristian knows the bible is right but is a liar? something like that?[/quote]

I’ll give you an example - I’ve never met an atheist who doesn’t believe that he or she is a “relativist,” proclaims a commitment to the idea that “all values are relative.” However, even on the face of it, this is a massive self-deception.

Like I said - even on their own terms, even without reference to Christianity - they are wrong.

[/quote]

Let me guess: your values are absolute and they’re absolute because the bible says so, and the bible is perfect because its says so…

something like that, yeah?[/quote]

Nope. You couldn’t be more wrong about me. Or about Christianity. Thanks for revealing the poverty of your understanding on both counts though! :slight_smile:

May I make a suggestion - if you’re really interested in bashing Christianity, why not do a little reading so as to lessen that poverty of yours?
[/quote]

So, instead of explaining the actual truth of the matter, you’re content with just telling me about how wrong I am and insulting me.

Yup, typical Christian.

Ok, then, christfuck, tell me where your absolute morality comes from if not from the bible, and tell me why you believe it, unless you believe the bible to be perfect.

Please, oh please, explain exactly how wrong I was.

400

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
But since you asked so kindly, I’ll tell you what I believe: I believe the universe exists.

Go ahead, disprove that one, buddy.[/quote]

You’ll get no argument from me there. That’s actually quite a nice start. We agree! Now, what - in your mind - follows from that fact. Maybe nothing, I’m just asking!

[/quote]

Then shut the fuck up, because thats what I believe. Nothing has to “follow from it”. I don’t need bedtime stories and fables to make me feel ok about the fact that the universe exsits, I dont need stupid stories about a sky wizard who makes no sense whatsoever.