[quote]pittbulll wrote:
bingo , so what prices go up, they go up all the time , the problem is wages for the working class have failed to keep pace with the prices going up .
[/quote]
So you just want to give a larger number as the answer when someone asks what is America’s minimum wage? Doesn’t that seem kind of ridiculous? I can understand arguing for an increase in purchasing power(although there’s no way to make that happen), but you admit that you just want to answer with a higher number when asked a question.[/quote]
I don’t know what you are saying , minimum wage should at least keep pace with inflation
And yes I know they tweak the inflation rate to further fuck the working class , but that is another thread
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I don’t know what you are saying , minimum wage should at least keep pace with inflation
And yes I know they tweak the inflation rate to further fuck the working class , but that is another thread
[/quote]
I am saying that I think it’s ridiculous that you support an increase in the minimum wage when you admit that won’t increase purchasing power, and may result in the loss of jobs.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I don’t know what you are saying , minimum wage should at least keep pace with inflation
And yes I know they tweak the inflation rate to further fuck the working class , but that is another thread
[/quote]
I am saying that I think it’s ridiculous that you support an increase in the minimum wage when you admit that won’t increase purchasing power, and may result in the loss of jobs.[/quote]
I do not agree that it won’t increase their buying power , Cotton has sky rocket , fuel has sky rocket , energy has sky rocket , everything has sky rocket wages have flat lined
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I do not agree that it won’t increase their buying power , Cotton has sky rocket , fuel has sky rocket , energy has sky rocket , everything has sky rocket wages have flat lined [/quote]
What on Earth will keep manufacturers from raising their prices due to the increased cost of labor?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I do not agree that it won’t increase their buying power , Cotton has sky rocket , fuel has sky rocket , energy has sky rocket , everything has sky rocket wages have flat lined [/quote]
What on Earth will keep manufacturers from raising their prices due to the increased cost of labor?[/quote]
they will raise it no matter if wages go up or don’t
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I do not agree that it won’t increase their buying power , Cotton has sky rocket , fuel has sky rocket , energy has sky rocket , everything has sky rocket wages have flat lined [/quote]
What on Earth will keep manufacturers from raising their prices due to the increased cost of labor?[/quote]
they will raise it no matter if wages go up or don’t
[/quote]
They will raise it more, if wages go up. Those who have the money make the rules. Has been that way since the beginning of any form of currency.
Now, let us say we increase minimum wage to 15 dollars. Guess who is going to be taking those jobs in this economy with tons of graduates without work? Yes, many with college degrees that will be able to do probably twice the work or be twice as productive as your uneducated tard flipping burgers. They will require half the work or a large percentage less to run the place. So, now you have taken jobs completely two fold from the “poor”.
Or they will just automate a large portion of the restaurant like has been discussed. A double increase or large increase in expenditure for payment will just force their hand. Companies are started to make a profit and keep costs down and they will find a way to do that if they want to stay alive. They are not there to coddle workers or give them wages the don’t deserve. Even if the government mandates it. They will simply innovate and restructure to keep the costs in profitable range.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I do not agree that it won’t increase their buying power , Cotton has sky rocket , fuel has sky rocket , energy has sky rocket , everything has sky rocket wages have flat lined [/quote]
What on Earth will keep manufacturers from raising their prices due to the increased cost of labor?[/quote]
they will raise it no matter if wages go up or don’t
[/quote]
They will raise it more, if wages go up. Those who have the money make the rules. Has been that way since the beginning of any form of currency.
Now, let us say we increase minimum wage to 15 dollars. Guess who is going to be taking those jobs in this economy with tons of graduates without work? Yes, many with college degrees that will be able to do probably twice the work or be twice as productive as your uneducated tard flipping burgers. They will require half the work or a large percentage less to run the place. So, now you have taken jobs completely two fold from the “poor”.
Or they will just automate a large portion of the restaurant like has been discussed. A double increase or large increase in expenditure for payment will just force their hand. Companies are started to make a profit and keep costs down and they will find a way to do that if they want to stay alive. They are not there to coddle workers or give them wages the don’t deserve. Even if the government mandates it. They will simply innovate and restructure to keep the costs in profitable range. [/quote]
They are going to automate everything any how , they are going to raise prices any how , they are going to exploit labor to the letter of the law any how . All I am saying is let’s change the letter of the law
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I don’t think this board has much ability to be realistic . Business will do what ever is in it’s short term interest . Period.
Business would love to treat labor as a commodity . At that point labor will have no rights
[/quote]
The future will be near complete automation with robots. The labor force if it had the ability to be realistic would know this.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I don’t think this board has much ability to be realistic . Business will do what ever is in it’s short term interest . Period.
Business would love to treat labor as a commodity . At that point labor will have no rights
[/quote]
Labor IS a commodity. “Labor” has no rights. Individuals do. Every man(and woman) should be free to work for the wage he desires. One doesn’t lose his right when he decides to hire others to work with him. Your whole argument springs from a belief that a man loses his right when he hires another. Of course, not only do you argue that a man loses his right once he hires another, but you believe that no man should be allowed to have a job which you do not deem sufficiently valuable.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
bingo , so what prices go up, they go up all the time , the problem is wages for the working class have failed to keep pace with the prices going up .
[/quote]
So you just want to give a larger number as the answer when someone asks what is America’s minimum wage? Doesn’t that seem kind of ridiculous? I can understand arguing for an increase in purchasing power(although there’s no way to make that happen), but you admit that you just want to answer with a higher number when asked a question.[/quote]
I don’t know what you are saying , minimum wage should at least keep pace with inflation
And yes I know they tweak the inflation rate to further fuck the working class , but that is another thread
[/quote]
What about during periods of deflation, can we reduce the minimum wage?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I do not agree that it won’t increase their buying power , Cotton has sky rocket , fuel has sky rocket , energy has sky rocket , everything has sky rocket wages have flat lined [/quote]
What on Earth will keep manufacturers from raising their prices due to the increased cost of labor?[/quote]
they will raise it no matter if wages go up or don’t
[/quote]
They will raise it more, if wages go up. Those who have the money make the rules. Has been that way since the beginning of any form of currency.
Now, let us say we increase minimum wage to 15 dollars. Guess who is going to be taking those jobs in this economy with tons of graduates without work? Yes, many with college degrees that will be able to do probably twice the work or be twice as productive as your uneducated tard flipping burgers. They will require half the work or a large percentage less to run the place. So, now you have taken jobs completely two fold from the “poor”.
Or they will just automate a large portion of the restaurant like has been discussed. A double increase or large increase in expenditure for payment will just force their hand. Companies are started to make a profit and keep costs down and they will find a way to do that if they want to stay alive. They are not there to coddle workers or give them wages the don’t deserve. Even if the government mandates it. They will simply innovate and restructure to keep the costs in profitable range. [/quote]
They are going to automate everything any how , they are going to raise prices any how , they are going to exploit labor to the letter of the law any how . All I am saying is let’s change the letter of the law
[/quote]
The realistic picture currently is no one really knows what the TRUE cost of goods are right now. Everything is artificially inflated due to targeted taxation (this includes ALL government mandated costs), subsidization, tariffs, government initiated barriers to entry, unions, etc.
All we are discussing here is how to keep playing the same game. Raise minimum wage and watch a whole host of other problems happen.
At this rate, you might as well say “everyone’s earnings gets redistributed by the government in an even manner.”
I have worked with many different companies before and the best companies (in terms of product, environment, job satisfaction, culture) have been companies where the owners encouraged the workers to make more money, because they put out a better product, have a better attitude and it creates a feed - forward loop of win=win success. I have also worked for many small minded companies where you have to fight for every dollar per hour. Meanwhile, I was filling out the work order tickets, seeing how much they were billing me out for vs. what I was getting paid and it created some animosity.
Then there is the tax issue. I feel that a more even spread of income would equal MORE overall money taken by the government in taxes which would enable the overall tax rate on individuals to be lowered. Higher wages for employees would increase buying power and give the overall economy a boost.
I don’t think for one second that people will lose tons of jobs or that “EVERYTHING” will be automated. Automation is expensive. To build, to maintain and the downtime when it breaks. Humans are not replaceable for most jobs.
I think the way to protect small business from being hit over the head with a “minimum” wage would be to set a “maximum” ratio. If the small business owner is barely squeaking by and a hike in the minimum wage would put him under, then he should be able to demonstrate that his ratio is low enough to justify his keeping his wages low.
On the flip side, workers for large corporations (who get all kinds of tax incentives anyway, which I oppose) who have a 400:1 CEO to employee salary ratio should be “encouraged” to bring that ratio down to something more reasonable. What that “reasonable” number is and how they are “encouraged” is not something I’m smart enough to figure out. But I think the idea is sound and would level the field a bit, protect small business owners and grow the over all economy.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
On the flip side, workers for large corporations (who get all kinds of tax incentives anyway, which I oppose) who have a 400:1 CEO to employee salary ratio should be “encouraged” to bring that ratio down to something more reasonable. What that “reasonable” number is and how they are “encouraged” is not something I’m smart enough to figure out. But I think the idea is sound and would level the field a bit, protect small business owners and grow the over all economy.
[/quote]
This is where I have issue. Journalist love to write, “tax incentives anyway, which I oppose,” but never list them. What are they? What does this have to do with pay?
The other issue with the ratio is that the number of employees is not mentioned. If McDonalds has 80,000 employees and a CEO to employee ratio of 400:1, what happens if the raito becomes 300:1? McDonalds is going to fire a shit ton of people, assuming the ratio change is due to an increase in wages for the worker and not a decrease in CEO pay. Seeing as a decrease in CEO pay does nothing for the worker, which is the point, right?
Yes, many with college degrees that will be able to do probably twice the work or be twice as productive as your uneducated tard flipping burgers. They will require half the work or a large percentage less to run the place. So, now you have taken jobs completely two fold from the “poor”.
[/quote]
In what alternate universe do you live where people with college degrees do twice the MANUAL LABOR as those without? Most of the people I know that have degrees did so because they are labor averse and physically soft. Yes there are exceptions, but speaking in generalities someone with an twelfth grade or less education will out dig/roof/assemble someone with a BA most of the time.
For the record I don’t believe these to be $15 an hour jobs but a reasonable wage and some basic human dignity doesn’t seem to be too much to ask for.
Yes, many with college degrees that will be able to do probably twice the work or be twice as productive as your uneducated tard flipping burgers. They will require half the work or a large percentage less to run the place. So, now you have taken jobs completely two fold from the “poor”.
[/quote]
In what alternate universe do you live where people with college degrees do twice the MANUAL LABOR as those without? Most of the people I know that have degrees did so because they are labor averse and physically soft. Yes there are exceptions, but speaking in generalities someone with an twelfth grade or less education will out dig/roof/assemble someone with a BA most of the time.
For the record I don’t believe these to be $15 an hour jobs but a reasonable wage and some basic human dignity doesn’t seem to be too much to ask for.
[/quote]
Fast food is manual labor?
Human dignity, McDonald’s workers are being degraded?
Yes, many with college degrees that will be able to do probably twice the work or be twice as productive as your uneducated tard flipping burgers. They will require half the work or a large percentage less to run the place. So, now you have taken jobs completely two fold from the “poor”.
[/quote]
In what alternate universe do you live where people with college degrees do twice the MANUAL LABOR as those without? Most of the people I know that have degrees did so because they are labor averse and physically soft. Yes there are exceptions, but speaking in generalities someone with an twelfth grade or less education will out dig/roof/assemble someone with a BA most of the time.
For the record I don’t believe these to be $15 an hour jobs but a reasonable wage and some basic human dignity doesn’t seem to be too much to ask for.
[/quote]
Fast food is manual labor?
Human dignity, McDonald’s workers are being degraded?
What is reasonable?[/quote]
I didn’t say hard labor but yes it can be physical to go fast. I sure as hell broke a sweat doing it as a teen.
Most on here are degrading them, saying they don’t do shit to deserve any of what they are receiving.
Ten bucks an hour wouldn’t add shit to your burger and adjusted for inflation would be what they were making twenty years ago.
Yes, many with college degrees that will be able to do probably twice the work or be twice as productive as your uneducated tard flipping burgers. They will require half the work or a large percentage less to run the place. So, now you have taken jobs completely two fold from the “poor”.
[/quote]
In what alternate universe do you live where people with college degrees do twice the MANUAL LABOR as those without? Most of the people I know that have degrees did so because they are labor averse and physically soft. Yes there are exceptions, but speaking in generalities someone with an twelfth grade or less education will out dig/roof/assemble someone with a BA most of the time.
For the record I don’t believe these to be $15 an hour jobs but a reasonable wage and some basic human dignity doesn’t seem to be too much to ask for.
[/quote]
Fast food is manual labor?
Human dignity, McDonald’s workers are being degraded?
What is reasonable?[/quote]
I didn’t say hard labor but yes it can be physical to go fast. I sure as hell broke a sweat doing it as a teen.
Most on here are degrading them, saying they don’t do shit to deserve any of what they are receiving.
Ten bucks an hour wouldn’t add shit to your burger and adjusted for inflation would be what they were making twenty years ago.
[/quote]
I’m not sure I’d call it physical (I was a cook in HS at a Friendlys), but it’s just my opinion.
Some of the comments I can see considered degrading sure. I don’t think being paid $7.25 to do very little is degrading though.
$10 spread across McDonald’s 1.7+ Million employees (Not sure how many are at or below $10 or in the U.S.) would effect prices or the number of job slots. I don’t see how it wouldn’t.