Military Action In Gaza

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:

Bush wanted to bring democracy to the middle east.

His little experiment has not gone well.

I am glad you can admit that even though you would have his children if you could.[/quote]

Oh I wouldn’t be so quick to say that there has not been success in the Middle East.

One dictator dethroned in Iraq.

One very opprssive religious regime taken out in Afghanistan.

Of course, there needs to be more time in both areas. However, 5 to 10 years down the road I think all freedom loving people will be applauding GW.

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
WTF are you talking about? Democracy is the only solution to the problems. They just elected the wrong group. It happens.

You get the ‘Understatement of the Year Award’.

Democracy will not work in the middle east and we will not see a stable democracy thrive there inside of our lifetimes.

Remember how long it took democracy to stablize in the U.S. and every other instance throughout history.[/quote]

Isn’t Israel in the midle east?

What are you trying to say?

You cannot converse with these people. Lots have tried and a lot of them are dead. You can only exterminate them. They’re like Nazis. Either kill them or be killed. What’s so fucking hard to understand about that?

Just fucking cap 'em all and be done with it. The Israelis offered these people full citizenship back in '48 and their response was to try to kill every Israeli, man, woman and child. Try to be nice and give 'em their own country and look what happens. And we wonder why ISRAEL is so ‘harsh’?

Exterminate the roaches.

Headhunter

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Just fucking cap 'em all and be done with it. The Israelis offered these people full citizenship back in '48 and their response was to try to kill every Israeli, man, woman and child. Try to be nice and give 'em their own country and look what happens. And we wonder why ISRAEL is so ‘harsh’?

Exterminate the roaches.

Headhunter[/quote]

Oooh, another sanctity of life proponent…

A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.
-George Washington

[quote]tme wrote:
What a disturbing coincidence that today is the 102nd anniversary of the assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand (June 28, 1914).
[/quote]

2006 … 1914. 102nd anniversary? The 102nd anniversary will be in 2016 by my reckoning.

The Israeli government doens’t want to look weak. And Hamas doens’t want to look like it gives in to Israeli demands.

Testosterone poisening I say. Both sides should be neutered and forced to sing kumbaya my lord around the same campfire.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
The Israeli government doens’t want to look weak. And Hamas doens’t want to look like it gives in to Israeli demands.

Testosterone poisening I say. Both sides should be neutered and forced to sing kumbaya my lord around the same campfire.[/quote]

Testosterone doesn’t preclude the use of brains, does it? If people weren’t raised in hatred and propaganda, and if they were able to achieve prosperity and the resulting comforts, they wouldn’t be so quick to give it up.

We are animals at heart and it takes years of education and training to turn us into decent socialized human beings. Never forget that. The war torn regions of the world show us how quickly civilization turns to shit when the young are no longer cultivated into decent human beings.

They simply turn into cannon fodder for the fanatical.

The point I was making was that the macho posing going on from both sides, makes a peacefull agreement impossible.

Remember the good ol’ days when Arafat was still in charge? And how he was demonised? I guess, looking back, he doesn’t seem half bad. Another missed opportunity.

Both sides are fully aware what the other party should do. But it seems impossible for them to see what they should do themselves.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
The point I was making was that the macho posing going on from both sides, makes a peacefull agreement impossible.

Remember the good ol’ days when Arafat was still in charge? And how he was demonised? I guess, looking back, he doesn’t seem half bad. Another missed opportunity.

Both sides are fully aware what the other party should do. But it seems impossible for them to see what they should do themselves.[/quote]

I think it’s called being consumed by hatred.

How are you having a balanced discussion about this without including that Israel has kidnapped a 1/3 of Palestine’s parliament?

IDF forces arrest Palestinian cabinet ministers, lawmakers
Israel Defense Forces troops launched a major arrest operation overnight, detaining 64 members of the Hamas political wing, including cabinet members and parliamentarians, as well as 23 militants.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732528.html


Israeli army turns on Olmert
9 Jul 2006
AFTER a week of fierce fighting against Palestinian militants in Gaza, the Israeli government was last night facing growing unease within its own military over the refusal to negotiate with Hamas for the release of kidnapped soldier Corporal Gilad Shalit…

Meanwhile, Olmert’s refusal to budge on the issue of negotiating with Hamas was starting to raise questions among senior military ranks. Military sources said it was Israeli Defence Force (IDF) policy “to do anything to rescue a soldier” but efforts to pursue negotiations were being hamstrung by a prime minister’s office determined to take a hard line…

Report: Israel responsible for PA collapse
Scathing report issued by Phycisians for Human Rights organization says Palestinian healthcare system collapsing because of aid cuts, Israel curfews; report warns Israel [and the US] will be held responsible for collapse by international community

3,978 Palestinians and 1,084 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000
American news reports repeatedly describe Israeli military attacks against the Palestinian population as “retaliation.” However, when one looks into the chronology of death in this conflict, the reality turns out to be quite different.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Returning Gaza to the terrorists control has proved to be the mistake many thought it would.
[/quote]

At jewishpress.com, they’re reporting that over 500 rockets have been fired into Israeli communities from Gaza since the handover.

I thought Islam was a religion of peace. Aren’t the Palestinians muslim?

HH

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
How are you having a balanced discussion about this without including that Israel has kidnapped a 1/3 of Palestine’s parliament?

IDF forces arrest Palestinian cabinet ministers, lawmakers
Israel Defense Forces troops launched a major arrest operation overnight, detaining 64 members of the Hamas political wing, including cabinet members and parliamentarians, as well as 23 militants.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732528.html
…[/quote]

They captured members of Hamas that have sworn to destroy Israel. They are currently at war with Hamas because Hamas keeps attacking Israel.

Capturing the enemy leadership seems like a good plan to me.

[quote]vroom wrote:
We are animals at heart and it takes years of education and training to turn us into decent socialized human beings. Never forget that. The war torn regions of the world show us how quickly civilization turns to shit when the young are no longer cultivated into decent human beings.

They simply turn into cannon fodder for the fanatical.[/quote]

Very true. The world descends into chaos unless someone has tremendous, smashing power, to keep everyone else in check, much like a teacher in a classroom.

Someday, when the advantage returns to the offense (weaponry now favors the defense, what with roadside bombs, stinger missiles, etc), order will be restored. Until then, every little discontented group ‘must have its way’, just like spoiled children.

HH

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Very true. The world descends into chaos unless someone has tremendous, smashing power, to keep everyone else in check, much like a teacher in a classroom.

Someday, when the advantage returns to the offense (weaponry now favors the defense, what with roadside bombs, stinger missiles, etc), order will be restored. Until then, every little discontented group ‘must have its way’, just like spoiled children.

HH
[/quote]

Well, yes and no. You are talking about the lowest common denominator, not how the world has to be.

There is this concept of socialization that you might want to consider.