Michael Richards' Trial Balloon?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Nonsense again. If someone produces beautiful work but were a child molester, do you still regard that work in the same light?

Adolf Hitler wrote some brilliant stuff, especially for a high school dropout. Do you laud the work and ignore the person? I’m saddened that such a brilliant mind got so corrupted by liberalism and altruism.[/quote]

Are you trying to suggest that Mel or Michael are now comparable to Hitler or child molesters?

Anyway, because of who Hitler was and what he did, I have no interest in exploring his work. However, a lot of people have, whether historians or otherwise, and it doesn’t mean that they idolize him or agree with him.

I don’t know what he wrote, but it may be possible that it is important for some reason, no matter who or what he was. Studying that information or appreciating it’s value, if it had value, wouldn’t imply an appreciation of the author.

If Hitler had invented fire, or the internal combustion engine, would you stop heating your house or driving to work every day?

The work is not the person. Disdain for the person does not automatically mean the work is no longer valuable either.

However, again, because of my disdain for Hitler, I’ll probably never see or read any of his work. It’s possible that I may never watch another performance from Michael, as well. However, the fact that I enjoyed the character Kramer on Seinfield is never going to change. I may however not be able to watch that work again or continue to appreciate it anymore if I did.

Perhaps you should use your mind to look at the facets of the issue instead of making up emotional appeals that aren’t based on any real logic?

102

[quote]vroom wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Holy fucking shit, you’re a loon.

You’re not worth talking to.

Senile dementia maybe? He really needs to go in for some type of checkup…[/quote]

Interesting, with this quote from page one of this very thread, you cross the line you’d hold others too.

103

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Unfortunately, you chose to uses phrases that require the active participation of more than one person.

However, I’m now mostly interested why you don’t apply your standards to yourself. And, why you didn’t aid me against Proff X and Harris, when I had both attacking me. Again, why so selective?
[/quote]

LOL. You are making a complete and utter fool of yourself.

Think for a second. I am questioning the motives of someone other than yourself. Perhaps this other someone found your viewpoint or comments a convenient place to sidle up and attack someone from.

Perhaps this action was done, possibly, for historic reasons that you are not even aware of. Possibly some enmity between the parties involved.

Nowhere have I said that you were a willing participant. Try to relax yourself. I carefully worded my statement to Dusty to leave you out of it.

Anyway, post another dozen times showing that you have absolutely no fucking clue. It’s pretty funny really.

104

[quote]harris447 wrote:

No, I’m not the only member you’ve had problems with.

Numerous other members have called you out for your Neo Nazi avatar, which you have never fully explained.

Everyone knows what you are.

I will never respect you, as you do not deserve anyone’s respect. [/quote]

Since your memory is so selective, use the search engine to go back and check my posts. My posts go back several years. You, harris, are the only person that has ever acted this way toward me.

I have explained the avatar numerous times, and again, your selective memory kicks in and you remember only what you want.

If I was what you claimed, why would I be wasting my time with you, or this site?

Oh, and I want your respect about as much as I want gonorrhea.

Dustin

105

[quote]vroom wrote:
Dusty,

Somehow, I don’t expect you to discern between having similar views at times and working together to hammer on someone. [/quote]

I don’t expect you to respond to other posts without being condescending and arrogant

I responded to this thread because I agreed with sloth. I don’t think sloth needs my help or for me to cheer him on. He was doing fine schooling harris by himself.

If it looked like I was beating up on harris, it’s because he is a vile little creature that has personal a issue with me based on one of his drug-induced illusions. This particular forum has gone to crap, and it is because of people like harris.

If harris could even attempt to debate a topic like an adult, then I wouldn’t take the stance that I have. Obviously, he can’t.

Dustin

106

Well, I have to say that I have been enjoying this thread. It is quite entertaining and I would like to add a few things:

Point #1: If you are a white person in this country and you say the n-word around black people or if black people find out that you used the n-word, you will always face repercussions (loss of status, loss of fame, loss of income, being verbally abused, being physically abused, etc.) If you are a black person and you say the n-word, chances are that you may not face any repercussions.

Is it right? No. Is it fair? No. Is it a double-standard? Yes. However, if this is the only double-standard that white people in this country have to deal with, consider yourself lucky. There is a whole laundry list of double-standards that blacks and other minorities face in this country all the time that many whites are either not aware of, or think nothing of because they don’t affect them.

Point #2: Whatever happened to just being a crazy, angry, racist asshole? That is what he is, period. This is not a harbinger of worst things to come, a sign of the end times or some grand conspiracy of racism. This is simply a disturbed, angry crazy man lashing out. Racism is alive and well in the USA. It has never gone out of style. Systematic racism has only gone down from overt to covert, but it is still here. Anyone that thinks that this is bigger than what it is and is drawing parallels to evil regimes is a fucking lunatic and needs to be slapped upside their head.

Point #3: I’m going to let all of you in on a secret. Many black people have been calling each other the n-word for many, many years when white people were not around. We just recently let you all know about it. Once that happened, the word was not co-opted, it was manipulated, marketed and mainstreamed by corporations to suck money in from as many people as they can. The word has not lost its sting when a white person says it, it has only been marketed so someone can make money off of it.

Point #4: As a black man, I do not use the word at all and I have a problem with anybody using it. The only difference is that if you are white, I just might break your jaw and make it so you can’t say it again. If you don’t understand why I would do that, read point #1.

OK, please continue with the thread.

107

Nice to see your original stance morph into something else. Now it’s simply a vendetta against a specific person.
Therefore, “patting each other on the back,” and “working toghether” no longer apply.

You never did answer why you yourself jumped into a conversation on the attack, from the get go. Nor, did you comment on your trading quips with Harris, involving personal attacks on HH. Read above where I’ve quoted you.

Sort of defeats the ‘discussion’ standards you put forth. The one were you scolded Dustin for making attacks, and ganging up on someone, instead of trying to discuss. Sorry Vroom, your shit stinks as much as anyone else’s. Including mine.

Glad I could help you narrow down “what you actually meant”. Good day, and good luck with your vendetta.

108

[quote]harris447 wrote:

Please explain to us all why my being Jewish has you “laughing out loud”.

And…are my actions as “divisive” as using a flag associated with White Supremacist groups?

[/quote]

I laughed out loud because you think you can act like jerk-off and are held to a different standard because your a Jew. You get a pass, because of something that happened in the past, correct?

If you weren’t so insane, you’d know that the flag has nothing to do with White Supremacy (whatever that means), anymore than the Southern Cross, or the American flag. All three of which are used by “White Supremacy” groups.

Dustin

109

[quote]Dustin wrote:
…
[/quote]

Woohoo, finally a response from the person I was talking to.

I have to admit Harris does have a way of making friends on the forums. However, he is certainly not the only person with strong views and strong words.

I don’t really think it is fair to single him out for forum downfall. We have a wide cast of characters for which we can do that…

Personally, I think the huge number of nutbird threads put forth by people with a very loose grasp on reality does a good job of it.

110

[quote]Sloth wrote:
You never did answer why you yourself jumped into a conversation on the attack, from the get go. Nor, did you comment on your trading quips with Harris, involving personal attacks on HH. Read above where I’ve quoted you.
[/quote]

Moron, I’m not putting forth discussion “standards” because I know for a fact I’m attacking, trading viewpoints and so forth all over the map. I don’t know about you, but I actually like it pretty wild around these parts… good thing too, because it’s probably not about to change.

I happen to be discussing something else, and I’ve tried to suggest what it was a couple of times. Hell, Dusty even graced me with a response on the topic, so I fail to see why you are still clueless.

Anyway, keep on jumping into the line of fire when it isn’t directed at you, it’s pretty humorous to watch!

111

[quote]Dustin wrote:
harris447 wrote:

Please explain to us all why my being Jewish has you “laughing out loud”.

And…are my actions as “divisive” as using a flag associated with White Supremacist groups?

I laughed out loud because you think you can act like jerk-off and are held to a different standard because your a Jew. You get a pass, because of something that happened in the past, correct?

If you weren’t so insane, you’d know that the flag has nothing to do with White Supremacy (whatever that means), anymore than the Southern Cross, or the American flag. All three of which are used by “White Supremacy” groups.

Dustin[/quote]

No, that’s a lie.

The flag is used PRIMARILY by Neo Nazi groups.

Plus, it had a Thor’s Hammer on top of it.

Both of these items are featured prominently on the stormfront website.

When you were called out for being the racist scum that you are, you hemmed and hawed and spouted some bullshit about how you were in the navy or some other nonsense.

Then you replaced the racist symbols with something that read “Don’t be a faggot.”

So, really, shithead: you have shown yourself to be exactly what everyone thought you were: lowly little hate-filled scum.

Keep playing, though. This is fun watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper into your hole.

112

[quote]vroom wrote:
Moron, I’m not putting forth discussion “standards” because I know for a fact I’m attacking, trading viewpoints and so forth all over the map. I don’t know about you, but I actually like it pretty wild around these parts… good thing too, because it’s probably not about to change.

[/quote]

You don’t remember saying this, do you?

“My comment was about people jumping into a conversation for reasons other than simply to discuss issues… such as to back up another person or to attack another person.”

113

Just now got up to speed on this thread.

  1. Sloth, excellent posts. Like you, I simply deplore the word and don’t think anyone should speak it - regardless of ethnicity.

Here is the problem - the word still has a lot of negative power. Look at the number of blacks who still get upset of a non-black calls them the name. Now, one would think we would want to live in a world where that word has lost its power to hurt and anger the minority group - so why support its usage? Why defend its usage via a double standard? The ‘double standard is ok’ argument just keeps breathing life into a word that should simply die. As long as the word is ok sometimes, there will always be a little life in it.

Either everyone should say it or no one should say it. Why? Because it is a word that carries so much weight. Either neutralize it or make it completely taboo - this is assuming, however, that you would like to see the power of the word reduced.

I do. Doesn’t matter who says the word - it is awful.

  1. The ‘double standard’ argument as it is presented here would lead to some interesting results - as Sloth pointed out, every comedy routine since the 1970s that had a black comic making fun of the stiff, dorky white guy is off-limits. After all, if Jews can only make fun of Jews, and blacks can only rib other blacks - well, you see where it is headed.

  2. I have no visions that racism will ‘disappear’ but we shouldn’t actually be complicit in helping racist morons out. Don’t give racist idiots power they simply don’t deserve - and as long as the ‘n’ word has a power that is protected by weird double standards, they enjoy the power to enrage, infuriate, and trigger responses. They love that the ‘n’ word carries the power it does - why give them the satisfaction of having such a powerful tool at their disposal?

Take it away from them.

114

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Point #2: Whatever happened to just being a crazy, angry, racist asshole? That is what he is, period. This is not a harbinger of worst things to come, a sign of the end times or some grand conspiracy of racism. This is simply a disturbed, angry crazy man lashing out. Racism is alive and well in the USA. It has never gone out of style. Systematic racism has only gone down from overt to covert, but it is still here. Anyone that thinks that this is bigger than what it is and is drawing parallels to evil regimes is a fucking lunatic and needs to be slapped upside their head.

[/quote]

Very nicely put. But Weimar was a very liberal, non-repressive regime (which is why many Germans hated it). Further, we’ve has TWO very public figures display an evil countenance. A pattern? I don’t know, I certainly hope not. That’s why I thought it worth discussing.

As for slapping me upside the head, its been done before. Those who did so regretted it quite a lot.

115

[quote]Sloth wrote:
vroom wrote:

No, what I was saying did not include you or refer to you.

My comment was about people jumping into a conversation for reasons other than simply to discuss issues… such as to back up another person or to attack another person.

Whether or not Dusty did such a thing has very little to do with you. However, you are now answering for Dusty and illustrating my point brilliantly. Thanks.

By the way, how the hell are you exempt from your above statements? And, why did you not champion for me when I had Proff X and Harris both at me? Why so selective?[/quote]

Prof X’s dad is a preacher. When Harris stated once, “God can suck my dick!”, I asked the Prof the same sort of thing: Why was he still defending Harris? Would his dad be proud of defending a guy who makes such a vile statement? The Prof has hated me ever since. I wonder why.

Watch his flames now. Its fun to watch.

116

[quote]vroom wrote:
Dustin wrote:
…

Woohoo, finally a response from the person I was talking to.

I have to admit Harris does have a way of making friends on the forums. However, he is certainly not the only person with strong views and strong words.

I don’t really think it is fair to single him out for forum downfall. We have a wide cast of characters for which we can do that…

Personally, I think the huge number of nutbird threads put forth by people with a very loose grasp on reality does a good job of it.[/quote]

If we all thought the same or lived up to some rigid concept of rationality, then what fun would there be in that? I’m crazy and I admit it. Who wants to be normal, like most everyone else? Blech!!

117

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
As for slapping me upside the head, its been done before. Those who did so regretted it quite a lot.
[/quote]

I’m sure that if someone slapped you upside the head, regardless of what happened next, they not only didn’t regret it, but it also made them feel really good as well. :wink:

118

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Further, we’ve has TWO very public figures display an evil countenance. A pattern? I don’t know, I certainly hope not. That’s why I thought it worth discussing.
[/quote]

So we have TWO crazy people. So what? The world is full of crazy people. These two just happened to have cameras pointed at them. It still means nothing more than the rantings of lunatics. Some have cameras pointed at them, others post on message boards. :wink:

119

[quote]harris447 wrote:
Dustin wrote:
harris447 wrote:

Please explain to us all why my being Jewish has you “laughing out loud”.

And…are my actions as “divisive” as using a flag associated with White Supremacist groups?

I laughed out loud because you think you can act like jerk-off and are held to a different standard because your a Jew. You get a pass, because of something that happened in the past, correct?

If you weren’t so insane, you’d know that the flag has nothing to do with White Supremacy (whatever that means), anymore than the Southern Cross, or the American flag. All three of which are used by “White Supremacy” groups.

Dustin

No, that’s a lie.

The flag is used PRIMARILY by Neo Nazi groups.

Plus, it had a Thor’s Hammer on top of it.

Both of these items are featured prominently on the stormfront website.

When you were called out for being the racist scum that you are, you hemmed and hawed and spouted some bullshit about how you were in the navy or some other nonsense.

Then you replaced the racist symbols with something that read “Don’t be a faggot.”

So, really, shithead: you have shown yourself to be exactly what everyone thought you were: lowly little hate-filled scum.

Keep playing, though. This is fun watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper into your hole.[/quote]

Sorry Dustin. Harris may sound angry and enraged towards you, but I remember this incident as well. He is right in that your explanations for having that avatar were very weak and appeared to be a cover up for some true racist intentions.

Your posting on this board in supporting Sloth position appears to be ingenuine at best. At worst, it appears that the only reason you are supporting Sloth is that you are mad that you can’t say the n-word without any repercussions and you want to be free to say it. I am only saying this based on the past events with that avatar.

This is what it looks like to me. If I am wrong, then please let me know.

120

Richards is Jewish…maybe?

Michael Richards Clarifies Claim About Being Jewish
Tuesday, November 28, 2006

AP

Michael Richards
LOS ANGELES ? Just when it seemed Michael Richards was about to leave the most troubling incident of his career behind, his publicist is having to explain how the comic could consider himself to be Jewish.

Last week, crisis-management expert Howard Rubenstein acknowledged that Richards had shouted anti-Semitic remarks in an April standup comedy routine ? well before his appearance earlier this month in which he harangued hecklers with the n-word. But he defended Richards’ language about Jews, saying that the comic “is Jewish. He’s not anti-Semitic at all. He was role-playing.”

As Rubenstein’s assertion circulated, Jewish organizations and commentators pointed out that the man who played Cosmo Kramer on “Seinfeld” has not converted to Judaism and neither of his parents are Jewish.

Which makes him …

“Technically, not having been born by blood as Jewish and not formally going into a conversion, it was purely his interpretation of having adopted Judaism as his religion,” Rubenstein told The Associated Press on Tuesday. “He told me, `I’m Jewish,’ when I asked him.”

Here I thought he was a Klan guy! Now I’m really confused!! :slight_smile: