[quote]gregron wrote:
Also, blaming a heart attack on a vegetarian diet seems quite silly. There are millions of vegetarians out there and you don’t hear about them keeling over and dying by the dozens from heart attacks.
[/quote]
Do you know any of them personally? I know two. And you’d never know they were on a “healthy” diet.
They of course eat vegetables. But what do you think makes up for most of their calorie consumption? Breads and pasta! Consider a diet like that without sufficient protein, and you’re dealing with someone who is terribly unbalanced hormonally. If you don’t think this will have a detrimental effect on a man with an already poor health history, you would be wrong.
And again, I didn’t say the veg diet caused his death. I said it could have initiated his problems or exacerbated the existing ones.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
But what do you think makes up for most of their calorie consumption? Breads and pasta! Consider a diet like that without sufficient protein, and you’re dealing with someone who is terribly unbalanced hormonally.[/quote]
You are totally assuming they are not consuming “sufficient” protein. What exactly is sufficient btw?
Please post some studies that link consumption of bread and pasta to heart attacks.
“terribly unbalanced hormonally” - please explain the link between bread and pasta causing serious and severe hormonal problems in humans.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
But what do you think makes up for most of their calorie consumption? Breads and pasta! Consider a diet like that without sufficient protein, and you’re dealing with someone who is terribly unbalanced hormonally.[/quote]
You are totally assuming they are not consuming “sufficient” protein. What exactly is sufficient btw?
Please post some studies that link consumption of bread and pasta to heart attacks.
“terribly unbalanced hormonally” - please explain the link between bread and pasta causing serious and severe hormonal problems in humans.
You are talking completely out of your ass.[/quote]
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
But what do you think makes up for most of their calorie consumption? Breads and pasta! Consider a diet like that without sufficient protein, and you’re dealing with someone who is terribly unbalanced hormonally.[/quote]
You are totally assuming they are not consuming “sufficient” protein. What exactly is sufficient btw?
Please post some studies that link consumption of bread and pasta to heart attacks.
“terribly unbalanced hormonally” - please explain the link between bread and pasta causing serious and severe hormonal problems in humans.
You are talking completely out of your ass.[/quote]
#1- most Americans don’t get optimal protein, let alone veggie heads, not to say it’s not possible. #2- while I hate the China Study and I bash it for one of the reasons I’m about to use, it does show the highest CORRELATION of heart disease and wheat intake #4- interesting fact, some turtles will breathe out of their anus
Also, let’s not forget that vegetable oils are veggie-head friendly and are terrible for health and heart health
I should add that the food options typical veggie-heads choose (think vegetable oils and tofu/soy burgers for example) do more harm than the actual concept of being vegetarian/vegan.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I should add that the food options typical veggie-heads choose (think vegetable oils and tofu/soy burgers for example) do more harm than the actual concept of being vegetarian/vegan.
[quote]gregron wrote:
Also, blaming a heart attack on a vegetarian diet seems quite silly. There are millions of vegetarians out there and you don’t hear about them keeling over and dying by the dozens from heart attacks.
[/quote]
Do you know any of them personally? I know two. And you’d never know they were on a “healthy” diet.
They of course eat vegetables. But what do you think makes up for most of their calorie consumption? Breads and pasta! Consider a diet like that without sufficient protein, and you’re dealing with someone who is terribly unbalanced hormonally. If you don’t think this will have a detrimental effect on a man with an already poor health history, you would be wrong.
And again, I didn’t say the veg diet caused his death. I said it could have initiated his problems or exacerbated the existing ones.
[/quote]
There is a good proportion of people from my heritage (Indian) that are vegetarian and also have a high occurrence of metabolic disease/Type 2 D. My father has it, my maternal grandmother had it, I have it. I agree strongly that the vegetarian diet for most people involves eating a large proportion of carbs from non-vegetable sources and low protein consumption (low quality as well since it’s usually from legumes, lentils and milk). What exacerbates this is that my culture (like many others) believes food (rich food) is a sign of prosperity, that it is an insult to not finish food or refuse food when offered as a guest.
#1- most Americans don’t get optimal protein, let alone veggie heads, not to say it’s not possible. #2- while I hate the China Study and I bash it for one of the reasons I’m about to use, it does show the highest CORRELATION of heart disease and wheat intake #4- interesting fact, some turtles will breathe out of their anus
Also, let’s not forget that vegetable oils are veggie-head friendly and are terrible for health and heart health
[/quote]
thanks, saves me from having to do it all. #2 carbohydrates (ESPECIALLY from processed grains) have a strong link with inflammation and inflammation is the PRIMARY cause of heart disease
It is no coincidence that he looked his worse when becoming a vegetarian. You don’t change a lifetime of eating choices with 5 years of veggies. I am pretty sure that when he filmed Armageddon his diet was less than great…and he was over 40 by then I think. Without knowing his medical history, saying anything more is just wrong and unjustified.
Blaming steroids or any ONE factor is ridiculous. Genetics and environment count for too much. I do know I haven’t seen too many “healthy looking” vegetarians who have lived their lives that way.
Duncan was still muscular because of all of those years NOT eating like a veg head.
Also, he lived a full life and did what most humans will never get to do. It isn’t exactly a failed life story.
I know one thing…I would rather be famous, rich and look like this in my 50’s than be weak, stringy and mediocre living to be 20 years older than that.
Apparently he weighed 330lbs in dardevil, told to bulk up by the producers. [/quote]
He was actually a little heavier than that after that movie…and considering he wasn’t a fat ass at that weight, that was pretty impressive.
Either way, bodybuilding has never been about all out health. Being black alone sets him up for a higher risk of heart disease. I also know his weighty loss started right after that movie so we will never know what actually set off his medical issues…but I know no man gives up steak after getting that big unless scared into it.
If I had to guess, hitting over 300 may have stressed him too much…but that is just a shot in the dark. the man lived a hard life until he became famous. We will never know all he had to deal with.
