Mexican Loyalties in the United States

Sloth · October 19, 2009, 5:40pm

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Here’s a little spoonful for you, don’t think I’ll make this a habit.

This thread is based on the premise that immigrants, particularly Hispanic immigrants, are not assimilating into American culture. The evidence used was a survey done of Mexicans in Mexico, but was believed to have been given to mexican-americans. That belief was incorrect. Further, the argument that Hispanics are not assimilating to the culture has been strongly questioned if not completely disproven by the literature. Unfortunately, several posters on this board refuse to look at that literature. Further, they scorn it claiming it is “not real science.” This is possibly because it disproves their assumptions.

I’ve given evidence which challenges several premises on this thread. These include: questions about assimilation, the number of illegal immigrants in the US, and the ways that those illegal immigrants enter the country.
[/quote]

But, we’re not just discussing the first article. We’ve also been discussing an article showing lagging achievement, drop out rates, etc. We are not arguing if Hispanics (I’ve focused on illegals) can assimilate. We’re arguing they don’t assimilate fast enough at the rate their population is increasing. So, even if they could assimilate at the 2nd gen., 100% percent (which is absurd), that’s still 1 extra generation just to hit the ground running. But again, the second article points out that we’re seeing education and social problems persisting in 3rd and 4th generations.

MaximusB · October 19, 2009, 5:36pm

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Here’s a little spoonful for you, don’t think I’ll make this a habit.

This thread is based on the premise that immigrants, particularly Hispanic immigrants, are not assimilating into American culture. The evidence used was a survey done of Mexicans in Mexico, but was believed to have been given to mexican-americans. That belief was incorrect. Further, the argument that Hispanics are not assimilating to the culture has been strongly questioned if not completely disproven by the literature. Unfortunately, several posters on this board refuse to look at that literature. Further, they scorn it claiming it is “not real science.” This is possibly because it disproves their assumptions.

I’ve given evidence which challenges several premises on this thread. These include: questions about assimilation, the number of illegal immigrants in the US, and the ways that those illegal immigrants enter the country.

But, we’re not just discussing the first article. We’ve also been discussing an article showing lagging achievement, drop out rates, etc. We are not arguing if Hispancis (I’ve focused on illegals) can assimilate. We’re arguing they don’t assimilate fast enough at the rate their population is increasing. So, even if they could assimilate at the 2nd gen., 100% percent (which is absurd), that’s still 1 extra generation just to hit the ground running. But again, the second article points out that we’re seeing education and social problems persisting in 3rd and 4th generations. [/quote]

It’s due to that “superior everything” they claim to have had. Better technology, education, medicine, warfare, inventions, you name it. Those dumb Europeans were thousands of years behind, according to them.

Sloth · October 19, 2009, 5:51pm

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

It’s due to that “superior everything” they claim to have had. Better technology, education, medicine, warfare, inventions, you name it. Those dumb Europeans were thousands of years behind, according to them. [/quote]

What’s due to that? 3rd and 4th generation issues? I don’t know. I’ve seen it suggested that hispanics (just talking population, not individuals) are buying into the mindset of “The man’s gonna keep me down, anyways.” So, they lash out and give up before even trying. A rejection of the culture and attempting success in it.

PRCalDude · October 19, 2009, 6:02pm

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Here’s a little spoonful for you, don’t think I’ll make this a habit.

This thread is based on the premise that immigrants, particularly Hispanic immigrants, are not assimilating into American culture. The evidence used was a survey done of Mexicans in Mexico, but was believed to have been given to mexican-americans. That belief was incorrect. Further, the argument that Hispanics are not assimilating to the culture has been strongly questioned if not completely disproven by the literature. Unfortunately, several posters on this board refuse to look at that literature. Further, they scorn it claiming it is “not real science.” This is possibly because it disproves their assumptions.

I’ve given evidence which challenges several premises on this thread. These include: questions about assimilation, the number of illegal immigrants in the US, and the ways that those illegal immigrants enter the country.

But, we’re not just discussing the first article. We’ve also been discussing an article showing lagging achievement, drop out rates, etc. We are not arguing if Hispancis (I’ve focused on illegals) can assimilate. We’re arguing they don’t assimilate fast enough at the rate their population is increasing. So, even if they could assimilate at the 2nd gen., 100% percent (which is absurd), that’s still 1 extra generation just to hit the ground running. But again, the second article points out that we’re seeing education and social problems persisting in 3rd and 4th generations.

It’s due to that “superior everything” they claim to have had. Better technology, education, medicine, warfare, inventions, you name it. Those dumb Europeans were thousands of years behind, according to them. [/quote]

LOL. They truly live in an upside-down world. It’s no different than talking to a SWPL, I suppose.

Cockney_Blue · October 19, 2009, 6:09pm

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
There is a point of view that is being totally missed here, and that is from illegal Latinos. One of the facilities I stayed on my Federal vacation was an INS holding facility, it was the closest facility to my home. I used to talk with these guys who came illegally, and asked them what they will do once they get deported. They said, without hesitation, to come right back regardless of the risk of getting arrested again.

They did not care, not one bit, about getting locked up yet again. They would talk about how they get money for their kids, and how weak this government is for just allowing people to come into their country and basically give away free money to those who just had kids. Guys would talk (laughing while doing it) about how they had their wife literally walk into a hospital and just have their babies for free. I had asked them if they felt bad for taking money from the citizens, and they would reply with, “FUCK NO.”

Because to them, they felt that the government was giving it away for free. They had no regard for the law or the citizens of this country, having caused identity theft and forgery. I had to hold back my anger in front of them, because to them I am just another pinche gringo. Guys I am telling you, they have no regard, NO REGARD, for our laws or for our people. Chuckling away about the poor bastard who’s SSN they would steal, or plan to steal when they come back.

And like mentioned above, these are the people who give the hard working immigrants who want to come here the right way a bad name.

You do raise a good cultural point that I have noticed about Mexico. There is a real feeling here that if something is easy to take then the person who made it easy to take is just stupid and deserves to lose it.

In the UK in a number of supermarkets there are self service checkout lines. You beep your own items through then pay using an automated system. My Mexican friends find this absolutely hilarious. In Mexico the store would be bankrupted in a week.

One of the two Mexican Power companies has just been taken over due to being ridiculously badly run. There was a report on the news today showing streets where literally thousands of people had just hooked up to steal electricity from the Grid. The report was not laying the blame on the people, it was pointing out how stupid the company was.

This is exactly my point, just because I leave my front door unlocked, does not make it ok to come into my house. You run the risk of not making it out alive.

This sense of entitlement is ridiculous, the feeling of “we are poor and you aren’t and you have to pay for us” makes me sick. That which can be stolen is fair game with many of these people. [/quote]

It is not that they think they are entitled to handouts from the government, quite the reverse. They have grown up in a culture where that doesn’t happen so they don’t quite understnd it. The second part is very Mexican though, if you leave your cellphone on a table in a restaurant here you don’t bother going back for it.

Gambit_Lost · October 19, 2009, 6:20pm

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Here’s a little spoonful for you, don’t think I’ll make this a habit.

This thread is based on the premise that immigrants, particularly Hispanic immigrants, are not assimilating into American culture. The evidence used was a survey done of Mexicans in Mexico, but was believed to have been given to mexican-americans. That belief was incorrect. Further, the argument that Hispanics are not assimilating to the culture has been strongly questioned if not completely disproven by the literature. Unfortunately, several posters on this board refuse to look at that literature. Further, they scorn it claiming it is “not real science.” This is possibly because it disproves their assumptions.

I’ve given evidence which challenges several premises on this thread. These include: questions about assimilation, the number of illegal immigrants in the US, and the ways that those illegal immigrants enter the country.

But, we’re not just discussing the first article. We’ve also been discussing an article showing lagging achievement, drop out rates, etc. We are not arguing if Hispanics (I’ve focused on illegals) can assimilate. We’re arguing they don’t assimilate fast enough at the rate their population is increasing. So, even if they could assimilate at the 2nd gen., 100% percent (which is absurd), that’s still 1 extra generation just to hit the ground running. But again, the second article points out that we’re seeing education and social problems persisting in 3rd and 4th generations. [/quote]

Honest question: If I post information which proves some of the things you’ve mentioned here to be in error or calls your logic into question, will you simply dismiss it as “not science”?

All evidence that can possibly be brought in will be from economists and social scientists. Will you read the material? And have you at least skimmed the assimilation article I posted above?

MaximusB · October 19, 2009, 6:51pm

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
There is a point of view that is being totally missed here, and that is from illegal Latinos. One of the facilities I stayed on my Federal vacation was an INS holding facility, it was the closest facility to my home. I used to talk with these guys who came illegally, and asked them what they will do once they get deported. They said, without hesitation, to come right back regardless of the risk of getting arrested again.

They did not care, not one bit, about getting locked up yet again. They would talk about how they get money for their kids, and how weak this government is for just allowing people to come into their country and basically give away free money to those who just had kids. Guys would talk (laughing while doing it) about how they had their wife literally walk into a hospital and just have their babies for free. I had asked them if they felt bad for taking money from the citizens, and they would reply with, “FUCK NO.”

Because to them, they felt that the government was giving it away for free. They had no regard for the law or the citizens of this country, having caused identity theft and forgery. I had to hold back my anger in front of them, because to them I am just another pinche gringo. Guys I am telling you, they have no regard, NO REGARD, for our laws or for our people. Chuckling away about the poor bastard who’s SSN they would steal, or plan to steal when they come back.

And like mentioned above, these are the people who give the hard working immigrants who want to come here the right way a bad name.

You do raise a good cultural point that I have noticed about Mexico. There is a real feeling here that if something is easy to take then the person who made it easy to take is just stupid and deserves to lose it.

In the UK in a number of supermarkets there are self service checkout lines. You beep your own items through then pay using an automated system. My Mexican friends find this absolutely hilarious. In Mexico the store would be bankrupted in a week.

One of the two Mexican Power companies has just been taken over due to being ridiculously badly run. There was a report on the news today showing streets where literally thousands of people had just hooked up to steal electricity from the Grid. The report was not laying the blame on the people, it was pointing out how stupid the company was.

This is exactly my point, just because I leave my front door unlocked, does not make it ok to come into my house. You run the risk of not making it out alive.

This sense of entitlement is ridiculous, the feeling of “we are poor and you aren’t and you have to pay for us” makes me sick. That which can be stolen is fair game with many of these people.

It is not that they think they are entitled to handouts from the government, quite the reverse. They have grown up in a culture where that doesn’t happen so they don’t quite understnd it. The second part is very Mexican though, if you leave your cellphone on a table in a restaurant here you don’t bother going back for it.[/quote]

Come to Sherman Oaks, you will find it either cleaned or repaired.

Cockney_Blue · October 19, 2009, 6:52pm

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
There is a point of view that is being totally missed here, and that is from illegal Latinos. One of the facilities I stayed on my Federal vacation was an INS holding facility, it was the closest facility to my home. I used to talk with these guys who came illegally, and asked them what they will do once they get deported. They said, without hesitation, to come right back regardless of the risk of getting arrested again.