[quote]jawara wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What’s funny is that a large majority of Mexicans believe that amnesty would encourage more illegal immigration. Lol, and amnesty even needs to be debated?
Here’s a sitting Mexican-“American” US Kongressman demanding amnesty to a crowd full of Mexicans. Anyone see these people in the crowd as potential neighbors?
If we have an actual depression maybe we should move down to Mexico and demand citizenship.[/quote]
Our kids should get welfare, free schooling (also in English), and government assistance.
Those figures don’t surprise me at all. I know lots of people here who have family in the US either legally or illegally. Most have a love hate attitude with the US.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
jawara wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What’s funny is that a large majority of Mexicans believe that amnesty would encourage more illegal immigration. Lol, and amnesty even needs to be debated?
Here’s a sitting Mexican-“American” US Kongressman demanding amnesty to a crowd full of Mexicans. Anyone see these people in the crowd as potential neighbors?
If we have an actual depression maybe we should move down to Mexico and demand citizenship.
Our kids should get welfare, free schooling (also in English), and government assistance. [/quote]
Ditto on the part about English. We should also demand American Pride Month and have an American in every office of government that they have.
[quote]jawara wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
jawara wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What’s funny is that a large majority of Mexicans believe that amnesty would encourage more illegal immigration. Lol, and amnesty even needs to be debated?
Here’s a sitting Mexican-“American” US Kongressman demanding amnesty to a crowd full of Mexicans. Anyone see these people in the crowd as potential neighbors?
If we have an actual depression maybe we should move down to Mexico and demand citizenship.
Our kids should get welfare, free schooling (also in English), and government assistance.
Ditto on the part about English. We should also demand American Pride Month and have an American in every office of government that they have.
[/quote]
I think it is disgusting the way that immigrants feel that they should be able to continue their culture in America. These peopple turn up, and feel they can fly their flags, have their food, their drinks, their music even though they are in a foreign country. I totally agree with you that St Patrick’s Day parades should be banned.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”[/quote]
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Read the taki article. Reality is a harsh bitch.[/quote]
I don’t necessarily agree with the thrust of the argument in that article. Yes it is a concern that certain groups are underachieving in US schools and yes this is something that needs to be worked on however the scores are improving and are higher than the scores were for the nation as a whole 30 or 40 years ago. Change takes time. If the Imigrants were not coming into the country, would the whites be having more kids to do those jobs? If not then the imigration is not the issue.
By the way, my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I posted the extract from the poem in the Statue of Liberty.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I don’t necessarily agree with the thrust of the argument in that article.[/quote]
That a less educated people will be the majority? A majority more favorable to throwing open the gates into the country even further? And all the social ills (crime, entitlement dependency, dwindling competitiveness in the world) with it? An exploding tax consuming base and shrinking tax paying base? The numbers seem to be on his side.
[quote]Yes it is a concern that certain groups are underachieving in US schools and yes this is something that needs to be worked on[/quote] Well, it is the biggest threat to the future prosperity of this nation [quote]however the scores are improving and are higher than the scores were for the nation as a whole 30 or 40 years ago.[/quote] As the article demonstrates, this will reverse. [quote]Change takes time.[/quote] Time for what? This implies there’s an unchanging number of these folks we can take our time with (which we already have, along with a ton of money) getting them settled in before the next group comes running across the border. [quote]If the Imigrants were not coming into the country, would the whites be having more kids to do those jobs?[/quote] Well, we have a whole bunch of government dependents that could use some honest work. But why just whites? Unemployed blacks shouldn’t have to compete with illegals for unskilled work. They should be able to fill these jobs and over generations of hard work, discipline, and saving, move up as a people. They had a ladder that needed climbing. But unfortunately, just as they were getting started, they began to be pushed aside. What jobs can’t be filled after all that, can be filled with an orderly and selective immigration proces.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
I don’t necessarily agree with the thrust of the argument in that article.
That a less educated people will be the majority? A majority more favorable to throwing open the gates into the country even further? And all the social ills (crime, entitlement dependency, dwindling competitiveness in the world) with it? An exploding tax consuming base and shrinking tax paying base? The numbers seem to be on his side.
Yes it is a concern that certain groups are underachieving in US schools and yes this is something that needs to be worked on Well, it is the biggest threat to the future prosperity of this nation however the scores are improving and are higher than the scores were for the nation as a whole 30 or 40 years ago. As the article demonstrates, this will reverse. Change takes time. Time for what? This implies there’s an unchanging number of these folks we can take our time with (which we already have, along with a ton of money) getting them settled in before the next group comes running across the border. If the Immigrants were not coming into the country, would the whites be having more kids to do those jobs? Well, we have a whole bunch of government dependents that could use some honest work. But why just whites? Unemployed blacks shouldn’t have to compete with illegals for unskilled work. They should be able to fill these jobs and over generations of hard work, discipline, and saving, move up as a people. They had a ladder that needed climbing. But unfortunately, just as they were getting started, they began to be pushed aside. What jobs can’t be filled after all that, can be filled with an orderly and selective immigration proces.
[/quote]
Less educated people have always been the majority in the US and pretty much everywhere (obviously depending on where you define the educated line)
The article actually gives the stats to support the fact that any group in the US over time is tending toward higher scores and better levels of education.
I used whites in my example because the article was drawing the line between Asians and Whites on one side and Blacks and Hispanics on the other. What the article doesn’t mention at all are the Black and Hispanic people who are coming to the US and finding success.
The only real way that the pressure for immigration will stop is when the economies of the countries that people are leaving rise to the level where people stay. From the quotes in the first article it is obvious that Mexicans for instance would rather be in Mexico.
I know that probably makes the situation sound hopeless but changes to the immigration law or building bigger walls would just be sticking fingers in the dam. What you need to do is cut the waterflow or divert it.
[quote]valiant knight wrote:
3 things:
It’s very simple to have strict immigration controls.
Mexico has had hundreds of years now to improve its economy.
Mexicans do not assimilate. Their education levels start low and drop lower. Trending ever downward.
The world does not need another Mexico. Without the United States there will be a dark age.[/quote]
You are correct, you have people who come here but live like they are still in Mexico. People who are here for many years and still do not know the language or customs here. They are using the idea of domestic outsourcing to their advantage. Rather than outsource work to cheaper countries, just bring cheaper workers here and its easier since proximity is no issue. There is no ocean for them to cross, they just literally walk in. Democrats love the votes and Republicans love the cheap labor. Because this situation has not been dealt with in the past, it is now a serious problem. Truth be told, these people do not recognize that this is America, and feel that it is their land. In their eyes, the Mexican-American War never ended.
[quote]valiant knight wrote:
3 things:
It’s very simple to have strict immigration controls.
Mexico has had hundreds of years now to improve its economy.
Mexicans do not assimilate. Their education levels start low and drop lower. Trending ever downward.
The world does not need another Mexico. Without the United States there will be a dark age.[/quote]
First point. The majority of illegal immigrants into the US entered the country legally and overstayed. If you tighten the immigration rules you just end up with more illegals.
Second point, how has Mexico had hundreds of years? It is just celebrating it’s bicentenary and it has only recently come out of what was effectively a dictatorship. Most of the states that have high numbers of Mexicans were considered part of Mexico as recently as 150 years ago. The people didn’t move, the border did.
Third point the stats from the linked article talk about year over year improvement so the trending is ever upward.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
valiant knight wrote:
3 things:
It’s very simple to have strict immigration controls.
Mexico has had hundreds of years now to improve its economy.
Mexicans do not assimilate. Their education levels start low and drop lower. Trending ever downward.
The world does not need another Mexico. Without the United States there will be a dark age.
First point. The majority of illegal immigrants into the US entered the country legally and overstayed. If you tighten the immigration rules you just end up with more illegals.
Second point, how has Mexico had hundreds of years? It is just celebrating it’s bicentenary and it has only recently come out of what was effectively a dictatorship. Most of the states that have high numbers of Mexicans were considered part of Mexico as recently as 150 years ago. The people didn’t move, the border did.
Third point the stats from the linked article talk about year over year improvement so the trending is ever upward.[/quote]
Actually, the article talks about a reversal…What the heck are you reading?
First point. The majority of illegal immigrants into the US entered the country legally and overstayed. If you tighten the immigration rules you just end up with more illegals.
[/quote]
Not if they have no access to schools, and if employers are treated like criminals for knowingly hiring them.
First point. The majority of illegal immigrants into the US entered the country legally and overstayed. If you tighten the immigration rules you just end up with more illegals.
Not if they have no access to schools, and if employers are treated like criminals for knowingly hiring them.[/quote]
But if the issue is low levels of education and immigrants never progressing to high paid productive jobs then surely this would be counterproductive.
Look, I am not stupid enough to say that immigration is not an issue in the US and I am sure that there are loopholes that need to be tightened (same as in the UK, some of the student visas that are given out are a total joke.) I just think you need to look at the situation holistically instead of just trying to shut the door against the tide.
Most people from South of the border do not come on a Visa, so they are not overstaying anything. They are walking across the border knowingly and willingly.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
But if the issue is low levels of education and immigrants never progressing to high paid productive jobs then surely this would be counterproductive.[/quote]
Self deportation will handle that. So, hand them a plane ticket. It’s cheaper than the social costs.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Most people from South of the border do not come on a Visa, so they are not overstaying anything. They are walking across the border knowingly and willingly. [/quote]
This is simply not true. The vast majority enter legally and overstay.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
But if the issue is low levels of education and immigrants never progressing to high paid productive jobs then surely this would be counterproductive.
Self deportation will handle that. So, hand them a plane ticket. It’s cheaper than the social costs.
[/quote]
Self deportation only works if they feel the conditions in their home country are better than in the US which comes right back to my point. You can’t just look at one side of it in isolation.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
But if the issue is low levels of education and immigrants never progressing to high paid productive jobs then surely this would be counterproductive.
Self deportation will handle that. So, hand them a plane ticket. It’s cheaper than the social costs.
Self deportation only works if they feel the conditions in their home country are better than in the US which comes right back to my point. You can’t just look at one side of it in isolation.[/quote]
Not being able to work, isolated from family and friends back home, means living on the streets. Not being able to use public schools means having children here would be pointless. Cut the military budget up to 70%, spend a good portion of that on enforcement, and there you go.
