Mexican Gun Laws

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Gun laws in Mexico will never work, there is far too much corruption within their government system for it to be upheld properly. They rely heavily on their drug exports as a means of sustaining the country, and while their politicians claim to oppose it, it is quite the opposite.

The irony is that the most violent elements of Mexican society, the cartels’ sicario (hitmen), are the police and the military. Great article in this month’s Harpers. It is excerpted in this CN article.

It doesn’t surprise me at all. Corruption has penetrated Mexican government to the fullest level, and there is no accountability whatsoever. I warn anyone who goes to border towns like Tijuana, you are truly risking your life. If you think the police are bad here in American, you have no idea.

Maximus you are clueless. Yes Tijuana can be a bit rough, mainly because it is right next to the US and any criminal with a bit of nouse sees the US day trippers as an easy mark.

Most of Mexico is not particularly dangerous. In fact I feel safer on the streets here than I would in a similar sized UK or US town. Kids here are way more respectful to adults.[/quote]

From the LA Times:

Grenades or military-grade weapons have been reported in at least 10 Mexican states during the last six months, used against police headquarters, city halls, a U.S. consulate, TV stations and senior Mexican officials. In a three-week period ended March 6, five grenade attacks were launched on police patrols and stations and the home of a commander in the south-central state of Michoacan. Other such attacks occurred in five other states during the same period.

22

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
That article from Harpers reads like bad porn. What point was he actually trying to make? All he did was sensationalise the situation for an eager American public which lives such a safe life that it craves tales of danger.

It’s not like Harpers is widely read by the American public and it’s not like the author, Charles Bowden, is known for writing porn (good or bad).

http://www.lannan.org/lf/bios/detail/charles-bowden/

So are you saying what he’s written is inaccurate?

Violent deaths by state:

http://www.seguridadjusticiaypaz.org/dmdocuments/ANEXO%20PGR.pdf
[/quote]

Selected responses to a piece he wrote about the prarie towns.

‘lazy journalism,’ ‘babbling of a delusional mind’ , ‘gross misrepresentations.’

Sounds about right. I am not saying that there are not assasinations and violence in Mexico however it is related to drugs and corruption.

If you are not involved then it actually has very little impact on your life here. I hear a lot about the violence from the police guys who I train in BJJ so I am not denying it exists. What I am saying is that lazy sensationalist journalism to fulfill the voyeuristic urges of the modern castrated male are not going to help things.

23

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Selected responses to a piece he wrote about the prarie towns.

‘lazy journalism,’ ‘babbling of a delusional mind’ , ‘gross misrepresentations.’[/quote]

“Hell hath no fury like a North Dakotan scorned”. The selected responses were by North Dakotans about Bowden’s article in National Geographic about prairie towns.

24

yes I know. So people from an area that he is writing about are saying that he sensationalises things. Sounds familiar.

25

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
yes I know. So people from an area that he is writing about are saying that he sensationalises things. Sounds familiar.[/quote]

Hell hath no fury like an expat brit in Mexico scorned.

26

[quote]jawara wrote:
orion wrote:
lixy wrote:
jawara wrote:
Crime in the UK from what I understand is pretty bad and again if I understand correctly got WORSE after guns were banned in the UK.

Correlation != Causation.

But no causation without correlation, which is why this is really brought up as an argument.

Or, a bit slower:

Yes, it is true that, yadayadayda

But!, if less guns meant less crimes, how come crime has risen?

How can you claim that causation when there is not even correlation?

Maybe I’m a little slow. I say again, if I understand correctly the gun laws in the UK were passed in order to reduce the crime rate. However, if I understand correctly the crime rate in the UK has gone UP since the ban was put into place.[/quote]

His point was that correlation does not mean causation.

My point was that a lack of correlation is a very good indicator that there is no causation.

27

[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
lixy wrote:
jawara wrote:
Crime in the UK from what I understand is pretty bad and again if I understand correctly got WORSE after guns were banned in the UK.

Correlation != Causation.

But no causation without correlation, which is why this is really brought up as an argument.

Or, a bit slower:

Yes, it is true that, yadayadayda

But!, if less guns meant less crimes, how come crime has risen?

How can you claim that causation when there is not even correlation?

I don’t.

But since you want to get into an argument: Less guns correlates with less gun-related crimes (and no, I don’t include imitations of guns into that category),
[/quote]

That is a purely statistical matter and very hard to argue for either side.

How many women were not raped because there are concealed carry laws?

I am happy to know that violent crimes go down when CC permits are the norm and crimes against property go up which is pretty straightforward and hard to read something agenda driven into.

If people carrying guns lead to less rape and murder but more car thefts, that is a-ok with me.

Incidentally a judge on tv recently said that he never knew how many people carried guns in Vienna until it was made illegal to bring them to court a few years ago.

Then he knew, because people had to leave them at the entrance to the court.

His conclusion is of course that all guns should be banned (how could it be anything else?) but what he should have asked himself is why it is that he never even knew.

Maybe those “adolescent, immature men who thgought they needed a weapon in Vienna” were able to be quite discreet and safe about it for decades.

28

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
yes I know. So people from an area that he is writing about are saying that he sensationalises things. Sounds familiar.

Hell hath no fury like an expat brit in Mexico scorned.

[/quote]

LOL!

Nah it just makes me laugh when American business associates of mine fly down here and are amazed by how cool it is.