Yes, I agree with what you’re saying, and I posted earlier about equality in spite of our differences, so I think we’ve covered that. My point was I thought the discourse was pretty reasonable, and then that nonsense happened.
2 Likes
I’ll check it out, thanks!
So generally, at a social gathering (ie anything from a house party to a wedding) I’m extremely shy and stand off-ish. At least until I get a grip on my surroundings. However, for some reason at a job, exponentially more so if I’m new, I get really high energy, and usually feed off chaos.
So, I had just started my current job… 2 1/2 years ago I believe… i had just got it through unexpectedly losing an employment opportunity and scrambling to get something making money. I walk in my first day, come to find out, the previous management had left for the competition about a month beforehand. The store was a 3mil a year brick and mortar, so it was pretty busy, and had been left with 1 employee.
I walk into a complete whirlwind of chaos and flying papers. There are corporate people in the back rearranging shelving (they were trying to spin it around into a fresh start kind of thing). So I jumped in trying to make myself useful, and climb up on the shelving to pop out the plywood, and this dude starts telling me to get down. I was already up there and said something to the effect of “who gives a shit, I’m a temp and I wont cost you any fucking money”. He started laughing his ass off. I then got a big container and labeled it the “fuck it bucket” and told everyone to start throwing all the shit they didnt want in the store in there… basically I was full tilt and didnt really care about the job, wasnt really my thing.
Come to find out those dudes were the Area Manager and the Regional Vice President of the company, and hired me permanent with a $4/hr Raise with a pat on the back. Long story short, for some reason my terrible language and new job energy gets me everywhere lol.
2 Likes
Anyone see this? @EmilyQ @chris_ottawa
I’ll watch with an open mind.
2 Likes
A very funny British journalist called Caitlin Moran wrote a book called “How to be a woman “, and gave the best definition of being a feminist I’ve seen:
Do you have a vagina?
Do you want to be in charge of it?
If you answered yes to both questions, you’re a feminist.
And for men she said do you think women should be in charge of their own bodies and their own lives - if you said yes to both, then you’re a feminist.
2 Likes
I really like the added reminder that I don’t like them, either, so it’s nice and fair! It just goes down easier for me than the idea that someone somewhere doesn’t like me.
Maybe, but I would say that it even more likely creates those watchful, mistrustful girls we’ve seen complained about in here. Who want to make sure they don’t have to rely on a man.
We’d have to define “slutty” behavior, though. I would say a highly promiscuous girl probably came from a bad home. Maybe an absent or uncaring father, but (@BrickHead) I think a strong enough mother can compensate for this. I also think a so-so father and so-so mother do about the same damage as a decent, but not great, mother and no father. Like…maybe there’s a scale and as long as you hit a certain level of parenting you’ll be okay, no matter where the points come from. So if you need a “10” altogether to come out healthy, it doesn’t matter if it comes from a mom who’s stellar, a 10, or two 5’s, or one 3 and one 7.
I don’t know if that makes sense at all. But in psychology there’s a term, “good enough mothering” which describes the point at which a child can be expected to get everything it needs to thrive, even if it’s not entirely optimal. I think that can be said of families, too.
If by “slutty” we mean “feels good about herself as she wears clothes you don’t think are proper,” then I don’t know.
You know, maybe I’ve been sheltered (growing up on Long Island, in New Jersey, Connecticut, Richmond VA, Atlanta GA, San Diego CA, and Dallas TX), but I used to go with friends to pubs and bars all the time, and very occasionally still do, and I’ve never seen anyone get his teeth knocked out for saying the wrong thing or looking at anyone funny. Not to say that there aren’t fights, but…?? Are you sure this isn’t sort or urban-legend-y? That men have to be careful how their eyes are held, but women can pop off at whomever whenever without any blow-back?
I do realize that men are at greater risk for violence across their life spans, but girls ages 16-24 are at their lifetime greatest risk for every sort of assault, which are their prime dating years. Would you not say that it’s sad that girls are being physically and sexually assaulted by boys and men who have far greater strength? I would imagine it’s about like being a 12-13 year old boy trying to fend off an older teen or grown man.
As for women who hit first, I wouldn’t go so far as to say they deserve what they get (badly beat up, often) but I will certainly say that it’s an asshole move to expect guys to restrain themselves when you won’t, and a very foolish idea to hold, since not all guys WILL restrain.
And I definitely am not saying it’s okay that men have such high rates of male-on-male violence, nor denying that it happens. I’m only questioning that men are at risk of violence at the level of having to constantly watch what they say, while women can speak freely at all times. Also, women beat each other up.
Not to be the grammar police, but I think you may be misusing it. It comes from what used to pass as baby food, so “bland mush” may be how you’re using it - but it also has a submissive and weak connotation that I highly doubt you’re displaying. “Reserved” or “subdued” probably better describe the cautious version of yourself. I think too highly of you to let you call yourself milquetoast!
I’ll watch it some time this week, but I have to say, the preview makes me think it’s going to irritate me. Hopefully not, though, lol.
This would do well with a consensus, so I’ll throw in my bits:
I believe men do size each other up. I know when I meet someone new, I immediately take inventory on anything remotely threatening about them. However, I dont believe men have to be more careful, necessarily. Granted, while I dont watch my tone with anyone, I’m not a confrontational person, and I typically dont have fight worthy thoughts.
Regarding physical action… it’s all situation dependent. I can say I’d never hit a woman, but if she hauls off and knocks the shit out of me, and comes back for more, I cant say I wouldn’t walk her like a dog. Subduing is obviously priority uno, but I cant say I keep rational thought after getting knocked in the face.
1 Like
I never said that all girls that are mistreated become sluts, but it’s a common factor among those who do.
By slutty I mean having sex with dozens of men. At the worse end of the spectrum, multiple men in a week, or even a day.
Parenting and social circle are going to have an impact too, there are a lot of factors, but I have seen several normal girls who have a bad experience with a boyfriend and then end up sleeping around with a lot of men. For example, one girl I met years ago told me, after having a few drinks, that her ex-boyfriend did various mean things and she caught him cheating on her so to get back she “slept with 5 or 6 of his best friends”. Then apparently he wanted her back, and she said “I got him good”. I was like “um, it’s getting late, I really need to get going now.” I saw her around after that and saw her with lots and lots of different guys. I can tell you worse stories than that, but it might be a little too much.
I used to live in an area in downtown Ottawa that is mostly restaurants, bars, and clubs, I have seen lots of fights around there. A lot of stabbings happen there too, and nowadays there are quite a few shootings as well. As for guys getting their teeth knocked out, there was one occasion where one of my friends came to my place with another guy, later that same night the guy showed up at my door with blood all over his face and two of his teeth knocked out. He said he got into an argument with another guy in a club, when he walked out the door later the same guy was waiting for him and punched him straight in the mouth. If you have ever seen someone who just got their teeth knocked out, it’s a sad sight.
That’s just one incident where that exact thing happened, but and Friday or Saturday night it’s pretty much guaranteed that someone will be fighting at the bars downtown. Years ago the bars in Hull (right over the river) were even worse, I remember one night there was a big fight and there was blood everywhere on the floors, it was fucked up. One of my friends was a bouncer at one of the clubs there, he got in lots of fights and one time a couple guys came back and pointed a gun at his head, fortunately they didn’t pull the trigger.
I highly doubt that Ottawa is so much worse than anywhere else, by all statistics this is a fairly quiet and safe city.
Well, would they be assaulted by men weaker than themselves? Of course it’s a problem, but stuff like this MeToo thing trivialize the whole issue. Being charged with rape is now like the moral equivalent of a parking ticket, and people sympathize with accused rapists. It’s like the boy who cried wolf.
If someone hits you I don’t see a good reason not to hit back, it’s self defense. Equality all the way!
Men don’t have to watch what they say all the time, it’s just that there are some guys who are out there looking for a fight or are just highly prone to violence and unless you actually want something to happen it would be a good idea to watch how you act around them.
I have seen a few fights between girls, but probably 100x more involving men.
That’s a colorful way of convincing people that feminism is harmless and we are all feminists at heart, but it doesn’t appear to reflect the reality. And “in charge of their own bodies” sounds like a reference to abortion.
1 Like
You could read it as a reference to abortion I guess. Or to female genital mutilation, or not being allowed to drive or vote or having to wear a niqab or whatever the men in the society you live in have decided is appropriate for women.
I just read it as, let grownups decide shit for themselves.
2 Likes
No one has defined what this means or provided any context.
I’m in charge of my own body. According to American law, I can dress how I want and eat what I want. I can also do things with my own body that make me an utter nuisance and burden or even danger on other people.
This is what puzzles me about Western men. What Western man has even grown up in a time when this was enforced in his country under a theocracy. What politician in our time ever proposed genital mutilation or having women fully covering her body besides her eyes and hands? Is this on the horizon.
Has anyone ever considered the environment in which Islam was founded or why some societies had female subordination of various sorts as a survival strategies? (I’m certainly glad I didn’t and won’t experience such a scene so people need not get on my case.)
BTW, I used to work across the street from a Muslim enclave in Queens, NY, and lived in a town in which some women covered their entire bodies by their own volition in free America.
1 Like
[quote="BrickHead, post:471, topic:264247, full:true"]
This is what puzzles me about Western men. What Western man has even grown up in a time when this was enforced in his country under a theocracy.
[/quote]
You think women in Western societies genuinely have equal life choices to men? Definitely better than in theocratic countries, but truly equal?
Speaking as a middle-aged, middle-class heterosexual white man, I feel life dealt me a pretty sweet hand.
I think life’s a whole lot better than it was for blacks, for women, for gays, but I think it’s a stretch to say it’s equal.
And until it’s equal, then feminism and Black Lives Matter and LGBT+ activists are going to be necessary.
1 Like
Like this one?
There are a few Muslim feminsts, but mostly they are atheists and lesbians and the majority of Muslim women aren’t complaining about anything. Places like Saudi Arabia where women cant go outside alone or drive a car are the exception.
Yeah that’s pretty fucked up. I don’t like the idea of male circumcision either. But with regards the female version, where it’s done it’s done and enforced by the women, they are just as guilty as the men. This is a totally different issue than what we are talking about here though.
Something I came across:
What more do you want for them?
They address legitimate concerns but do it in the wrong way. It makes it hard to sympathize.
“A co-founder of Black Lives Matter Toronto argued that white people are “recessive genetic defects” and purportedly mused about how the race could be “wiped out”
And you can also find plenty of videos of them attacking white bystanders, or vandalizing and looting businesses (some owned by black people).
1 Like
Obviously if you pay people less for doing the exact same job you’re going to make bigger profits.
The question is are they paid less for the exact same job, or do women earn less because they’re doing more junior jobs?
(The follow up is going to be why would they be doing more junior jobs, but let’s not open that Pandora’s box!)
I’ve addressed this above. Can you provide an example in which women are experiencing unequal opportunity that men aren’t?
You can see my posts above if you like.
1 Like
What percentage of Fortune 500 company directors are women?
Either women are innately inferior to men in business, or there’s something else going on.
What percentage of Presidents of the USA have been women? The UK as only ever had 2 women prime ministers… there’s endless examples of this.
Chris I absolutely agree that the radical groups shoot themselves in the foot by being total tools.
But let’s not mix up the messenger and the message.
Orthodox Jewish women in the West don’t expose their bodies (in some cases not their own hair either) to the public at large either, nor do they shake men’s hands, by their own volition.
Certainly not free-wheeling but such a code of conduct has them with a community in which goofballs aren’t hooting and Hollering at their women, inspiring other indecent male behavior and cheating, the concept of “bad boys” and “hawt guys”, or other characteristics of a Libertine shit show.
1 Like
I thought you’d bring up this fringe example first rather than unequal opportunity at large. We discussed this.
I don’t e-know you and you seem like a nice guy so I’m not trying to be confrontational, just debating in the context of the thread. Just putting that out there before I further converse. I’m not here to “win”.