Medical Field/Drugs and Death

Off Topic
221

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I think many diseases could be prevented through diet/exercise.
[/quote]

Great. If you feel compelled to tell the world, great.

That is the wonder of free enterprise. You can do what you want. You took the time to read about this stuff.

No amount of regulation is going to make people do that. All regulation does is build the fences cattle are lead through to the slaughter house.

Regulation makes people sheep. Liberation makes people the boarder collie. But a person has to want to achieve in order to.

[/quote]

Regulation can make doctors more educated on the subject though. And that might be the right kind of regulation.

Either make it mandatory material when passing your Step2/Step3 exams, or even mandatory to have x-number-of-hours covering the subjects in med school.

The doctors are really the gatekeepers here. Even if the patients are idiots, the doctors can increase the barrier to taking the “prescribe a pill” route.[/quote]

Do you know what is required for Med school? Internship? Fellowship?

Do you know what is required for continuing education annually to maintain your license to practice in the state you are in.

222

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
My dad had his first heart attack several years ago.
He “cleaned up” his diet (no egg yolks, no butter, no fatty meats), and was put on a statin drug.

And he had another heart attack.
Then 2 years later, another heart attack.

Now his doctor put him on another statin drug. He’s now on 2 of them (because everyone knows that 2 is better than one).

I’ll bet my right hand that he suffers another heart attack in the coming years.
But oh… I guess he has that “bad gene”.[/quote]

If you were in his situation, what would you do instead? Genuinely curious.[/quote]

Listen to his son.

:wink:

[/quote]

Have his cardiologist(s) put him on CoEQ10 (say, 200) and Vit C (at 2X500)?

Statins interfere with the creation of CoEQ10 (and hormones for that matter) and this can actually lead to recurring complications. Ample CoEQ10, statins, and Vit C are studied in Israel as actually reversing damage to the heart muscle itself.

Statins are a good thing, but they do come at a cost.

Mrs. Jewbacca[/quote]

Sorry Doc, but according to some all Doctors prescribe statins also promote no dietary changes or exercise. We take no health history, do no assessment or even speak to the patients. All we do is look at a lab, wink at our local pharmacy reps and write out scripts for statins.

ID I love you man you know this, however your father is not being treated correctly, also the amount of litigation in our society in regards to medical malpractice very much dictates that nobody believe Drs to be Godlike any longer.

To me your frustration might be with your father, cause maybe your Dr has told your dad about life style changes and got the same results you did. Just a thought.

223

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I think many diseases could be prevented through diet/exercise.
[/quote]

Great. If you feel compelled to tell the world, great.

That is the wonder of free enterprise. You can do what you want. You took the time to read about this stuff.

No amount of regulation is going to make people do that. All regulation does is build the fences cattle are lead through to the slaughter house.

Regulation makes people sheep. Liberation makes people the boarder collie. But a person has to want to achieve in order to.

[/quote]

Regulation can make doctors more educated on the subject though. And that might be the right kind of regulation.

Either make it mandatory material when passing your Step2/Step3 exams, or even mandatory to have x-number-of-hours covering the subjects in med school.

The doctors are really the gatekeepers here. Even if the patients are idiots, the doctors can increase the barrier to taking the “prescribe a pill” route.[/quote]

Do you know what is required for Med school? Internship? Fellowship?

Do you know what is required for continuing education annually to maintain your license to practice in the state you are in.

[/quote]

Considering I’ve been with my girlfriend through med school and residency, and she’s now seriously looking into fellowships, I have a pretty good idea. Granted, this is in pediatrics and adolescent medicine, not internal medicine or family practice. As far as maintaining her license, I’m pretty ignorant on that; she finishes residency this spring.

I also know her education in nutrition and exercise is quite weak, and that they barely touched on the subjects. About the most interesting thing that’s changed is they recently altered the recommended age to start children on whole milk. Otherwise it mostly comes down to “eat more vegetables” and “reduce screen time”. (Oh, and “corn is not a vegetable”.)

But I didn’t mean to imply an extremist position where I think all doctors jump to prescribing pills… Rather, I was implying that a focus on lifestyle changes should be emphasized – things like working with a dietician or nutritionist before prescribing PPIs, or performing allergy testing before prescribing nasal corticosteroids. I think there are some policy-level decisions that could make this happen.

Obviously some people need Prilosec and others need Flonase, but sometimes a lifestyle change can make all the difference.

224

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I think many diseases could be prevented through diet/exercise.
[/quote]

Great. If you feel compelled to tell the world, great.

That is the wonder of free enterprise. You can do what you want. You took the time to read about this stuff.

No amount of regulation is going to make people do that. All regulation does is build the fences cattle are lead through to the slaughter house.

Regulation makes people sheep. Liberation makes people the boarder collie. But a person has to want to achieve in order to.

[/quote]

Regulation can make doctors more educated on the subject though. And that might be the right kind of regulation.

Either make it mandatory material when passing your Step2/Step3 exams, or even mandatory to have x-number-of-hours covering the subjects in med school.

The doctors are really the gatekeepers here. Even if the patients are idiots, the doctors can increase the barrier to taking the “prescribe a pill” route.[/quote]

Do you know what is required for Med school? Internship? Fellowship?

Do you know what is required for continuing education annually to maintain your license to practice in the state you are in.

[/quote]

Considering I’ve been with my girlfriend through med school and residency, and she’s now seriously looking into fellowships, I have a pretty good idea. Granted, this is in pediatrics and adolescent medicine, not internal medicine or family practice. As far as maintaining her license, I’m pretty ignorant on that; she finishes residency this spring.

I also know her education in nutrition and exercise is quite weak, and that they barely touched on the subjects. About the most interesting thing that’s changed is they recently altered the recommended age to start children on whole milk. Otherwise it mostly comes down to “eat more vegetables” and “reduce screen time”. (Oh, and “corn is not a vegetable”.)

But I didn’t mean to imply an extremist position where I think all doctors jump to prescribing pills… Rather, I was implying that a focus on lifestyle changes should be emphasized – things like working with a dietician or nutritionist before prescribing PPIs, or performing allergy testing before prescribing nasal corticosteroids. I think there are some policy-level decisions that could make this happen.

Obviously some people need Prilosec and others need Flonase, but sometimes a lifestyle change can make all the difference.[/quote]

Okay good so you have a working knowledge of what is required to achieve a title of MD.

The problem is real world, the problem is people do not want life style modification, they do not want to diet and exercise. They want a magic bullet, they want the SUPPLEMENTS to cure them of all their problems. Most Drs if they are any good will advice life style changes or reference them to dieticians/nutritionist.

Some of those problems come from todays medical reimbursement issues. Your GF will love that when she starts working in a practice or has her own.

225

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Considering I’ve been with my girlfriend through med school and residency, and she’s now seriously looking into fellowships, I have a pretty good idea. Granted, this is in pediatrics and adolescent medicine, not internal medicine or family practice. As far as maintaining her license, I’m pretty ignorant on that; she finishes residency this spring.

I also know her education in nutrition and exercise is quite weak, and that they barely touched on the subjects. About the most interesting thing that’s changed is they recently altered the recommended age to start children on whole milk. Otherwise it mostly comes down to “eat more vegetables” and “reduce screen time”. (Oh, and “corn is not a vegetable”.)

But I didn’t mean to imply an extremist position where I think all doctors jump to prescribing pills… Rather, I was implying that a focus on lifestyle changes should be emphasized – things like working with a dietician or nutritionist before prescribing PPIs, or performing allergy testing before prescribing nasal corticosteroids. I think there are some policy-level decisions that could make this happen.

Obviously some people need Prilosec and others need Flonase, but sometimes a lifestyle change can make all the difference.[/quote]

Okay good so you have a working knowledge of what is required to achieve a title of MD.

The problem is real world, the problem is people do not want life style modification, they do not want to diet and exercise. They want a magic bullet, they want the SUPPLEMENTS to cure them of all their problems. Most Drs if they are any good will advice life style changes or reference them to dieticians/nutritionist.

Some of those problems come from todays medical reimbursement issues. Your GF will love that when she starts working in a practice or has her own. [/quote]

Yeah, reimbursement and even referrals do make things far more difficult.

Even with a referral to a dietician, there’s really no accountability as to whether the patient ever makes an appointment. I would prefer if the situation were something like “sorry, I literally can’t prescribe this drug to you until I get written confirmation that dietetic intervention isn’t an option.” And for that to be enforced in a way that the patient couldn’t go doctor-hopping until someone told them what they wanted to hear.

But with that comes higher costs, more bureaucracy, less control by the MD, more lawsuits, lower pharmaceutical sales, reduced incentives for drug R&D, etc. And more opportunity for corruption in those policymaking processes.

Reality sucks sometimes, you know?

226

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Considering I’ve been with my girlfriend through med school and residency, and she’s now seriously looking into fellowships, I have a pretty good idea. Granted, this is in pediatrics and adolescent medicine, not internal medicine or family practice. As far as maintaining her license, I’m pretty ignorant on that; she finishes residency this spring.

I also know her education in nutrition and exercise is quite weak, and that they barely touched on the subjects. About the most interesting thing that’s changed is they recently altered the recommended age to start children on whole milk. Otherwise it mostly comes down to “eat more vegetables” and “reduce screen time”. (Oh, and “corn is not a vegetable”.)

But I didn’t mean to imply an extremist position where I think all doctors jump to prescribing pills… Rather, I was implying that a focus on lifestyle changes should be emphasized – things like working with a dietician or nutritionist before prescribing PPIs, or performing allergy testing before prescribing nasal corticosteroids. I think there are some policy-level decisions that could make this happen.

Obviously some people need Prilosec and others need Flonase, but sometimes a lifestyle change can make all the difference.[/quote]

Okay good so you have a working knowledge of what is required to achieve a title of MD.

The problem is real world, the problem is people do not want life style modification, they do not want to diet and exercise. They want a magic bullet, they want the SUPPLEMENTS to cure them of all their problems. Most Drs if they are any good will advice life style changes or reference them to dieticians/nutritionist.

Some of those problems come from todays medical reimbursement issues. Your GF will love that when she starts working in a practice or has her own. [/quote]

Yeah, reimbursement and even referrals do make things far more difficult.

Even with a referral to a dietician, there’s really no accountability as to whether the patient ever makes an appointment. I would prefer if the situation were something like “sorry, I literally can’t prescribe this drug to you until I get written confirmation that dietetic intervention isn’t an option.” And for that to be enforced in a way that the patient couldn’t go doctor-hopping until someone told them what they wanted to hear.

But with that comes higher costs, more bureaucracy, less control by the MD, more lawsuits, lower pharmaceutical sales, reduced incentives for drug R&D, etc. And more opportunity for corruption in those policymaking processes.

Reality sucks sometimes, you know?[/quote]
20 years of medicine man believe me I know

227

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
ID I love you man you know this, however your father is not being treated correctly, also the amount of litigation in our society in regards to medical malpractice very much dictates that nobody believe Drs to be Godlike any longer.

To me your frustration might be with your father, cause maybe your Dr has told your dad about life style changes and got the same results you did. Just a thought. [/quote]

You may be right. And yes, this truth hurts. I appreciate your honsety, Derek!

My Dad always raves about his doctor… especially how impressed the doctor is with how good my dad looks for his age. They talk together like old friends.

I know may Dad has taken necessary steps in cleaning up his diet based on what his doctor told him. But I fear that knowledge is antiquated.

228

is the horse beaten enough yet?

229

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
is the horse beaten enough yet?

Nope. Not until he’s dead, grilled, and ends up on Zraw’s dinner plate.

lol

230

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
ID I love you man you know this, however your father is not being treated correctly, also the amount of litigation in our society in regards to medical malpractice very much dictates that nobody believe Drs to be Godlike any longer.

To me your frustration might be with your father, cause maybe your Dr has told your dad about life style changes and got the same results you did. Just a thought. [/quote]

You may be right. And yes, this truth hurts. I appreciate your honsety, Derek!

My Dad always raves about his doctor… especially how impressed the doctor is with how good my dad looks for his age. They talk together like old friends.

I know may Dad has taken necessary steps in cleaning up his diet based on what his doctor told him. But I fear that knowledge is antiquated.
[/quote]

ID had a large population of older labor workers, shrimpers, oil workers etc. They would come to me cause I wore red wings, blue jeans and button up shirts to work. They felt like they could talk to me and I would not beat them over the head with quit smoking stop eating tacos and drinking beer every night.

A lot men in that age group do not like Drs, they do not like taking pills, they do not want to change. As a guy in this position as their health care provider sometimes you just do the best you can. Cause if you do beat them up they just say fuck you and do not go see anybody. That generation did not grow up with sports and exercise or diet, they grew up with cigarette company’s handing out 3 packs to teenagers to get them started on smoking.

231

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
ID I love you man you know this, however your father is not being treated correctly, also the amount of litigation in our society in regards to medical malpractice very much dictates that nobody believe Drs to be Godlike any longer.

To me your frustration might be with your father, cause maybe your Dr has told your dad about life style changes and got the same results you did. Just a thought. [/quote]

You may be right. And yes, this truth hurts. I appreciate your honsety, Derek!

My Dad always raves about his doctor… especially how impressed the doctor is with how good my dad looks for his age. They talk together like old friends.

I know may Dad has taken necessary steps in cleaning up his diet based on what his doctor told him. But I fear that knowledge is antiquated.
[/quote]

ID had a large population of older labor workers, shrimpers, oil workers etc. They would come to me cause I wore red wings, blue jeans and button up shirts to work. They felt like they could talk to me and I would not beat them over the head with quit smoking stop eating tacos and drinking beer every night. A lot men in that age group do not like Drs, they do not like taking pills, they do not want to change. As a guy in this position as their health care provider sometimes you just do the best you can. Cause if you do beat them up they just say fuck you and do not go see anybody. That generation did not grow up with sports and exercise or diet, they grew up with cigarette company’s handing out 3 packs to teenagers to get them started on smoking. [/quote]

Good post. Where I study in North-East England, we have a lot of similar problems. Not to mention that many of the men from around here used to work with asbestos, down coal mines and on ships!

232

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
ID I love you man you know this, however your father is not being treated correctly, also the amount of litigation in our society in regards to medical malpractice very much dictates that nobody believe Drs to be Godlike any longer.

To me your frustration might be with your father, cause maybe your Dr has told your dad about life style changes and got the same results you did. Just a thought. [/quote]

You may be right. And yes, this truth hurts. I appreciate your honsety, Derek!

My Dad always raves about his doctor… especially how impressed the doctor is with how good my dad looks for his age. They talk together like old friends.

I know may Dad has taken necessary steps in cleaning up his diet based on what his doctor told him. But I fear that knowledge is antiquated.
[/quote]

ID had a large population of older labor workers, shrimpers, oil workers etc. They would come to me cause I wore red wings, blue jeans and button up shirts to work. They felt like they could talk to me and I would not beat them over the head with quit smoking stop eating tacos and drinking beer every night.

A lot men in that age group do not like Drs, they do not like taking pills, they do not want to change. As a guy in this position as their health care provider sometimes you just do the best you can. Cause if you do beat them up they just say fuck you and do not go see anybody. That generation did not grow up with sports and exercise or diet, they grew up with cigarette company’s handing out 3 packs to teenagers to get them started on smoking. [/quote]

So true. Might I suggest for you and maybe ID, “Motivational Interviewing” granted, you don’t spend a lot of time with these people, but this book is extremely powerful in helping deal with people that don’t want to change or are ready just timid.

233

This fits nicely in here.

:slight_smile:

234

Uh, yeah…that last one should read “antibiotics get handed out like M&M’s until the bacteria become resistant…now what?”

The general public has much to do with that as well. Way too many patients come in with infections who admit they simply started taking someone’s else’s prescribed antibiotics for weeks. Not to mention the many who will walk around with an infection but since they don’t make it a priority, will let it sit for months while going to different doctors to get more antibiotics prescriptions until they finally get around to going to a dentist.

With shit like that, antibiotics won’t be worth much in 40 years.

235

I never really got the doctor hate thing…

I’ve had some rejects. So I kept looking until I found one that doesn’t suck.

236

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I never really got the doctor hate thing…

I’ve had some rejects. So I kept looking until I found one that doesn’t suck.
[/quote]
x2

237

#1 complain I hear about doctors is probably that they dont’ spend enough time with you.

I’ve had good experiences with my GP, then again I don’t have a host of health issues requiring tons of counseling.

238

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
#1 complain I hear about doctors is probably that they dont’ spend enough time with you.

I’ve had good experiences with my GP, then again I don’t have a host of health issues requiring tons of counseling.[/quote]

#1 reply I hear from doctors about not spending enough time with patients: “we don’t get enough reimbursement from medicaid/insurance to justify spending any more time”

239

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
#1 complain I hear about doctors is probably that they dont’ spend enough time with you.

I’ve had good experiences with my GP, then again I don’t have a host of health issues requiring tons of counseling.[/quote]

#1 reply I hear from doctors about not spending enough time with patients: “we don’t get enough reimbursement from medicaid/insurance to justify spending any more time”[/quote]

Coming from a Mass resident, universal health care didn’t fix that here.

I found a guy that gives you the time, but had to blaze through 3 idiots to get to him.

I suggest looking at the people your insurance company rate low, are older, but partner with younger doctors in the office. They are rated low because they do good work, and good work means less profit for insurance companies.

240

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Uh, yeah…that last one should read “antibiotics get handed out like M&M’s until the bacteria become resistant…now what?”

The general public has much to do with that as well. Way too many patients come in with infections who admit they simply started taking someone’s else’s prescribed antibiotics for weeks. Not to mention the many who will walk around with an infection but since they don’t make it a priority, will let it sit for months while going to different doctors to get more antibiotics prescriptions until they finally get around to going to a dentist.

With shit like that, antibiotics won’t be worth much in 40 years.[/quote]

In a fair and just universe, neither will those mouth-breathers or their offspring.