I think McNabb took a lot of heat for which he didn’t earn. This is something I like to point out to couch coaches…
Referees Ref, players play, and coaches coach. He is the QB and the most important person on the team, but dropped balls, fumbles, missed tackles, and poor coaching judgments should not be on his shoulders. He is a very good QB, if he can surround himself with good people he will do well.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I think McNabb took a lot of heat for which he didn’t earn. This is something I like to point out to couch coaches…
Referees Ref, players play, and coaches coach. He is the QB and the most important person on the team, but dropped balls, fumbles, missed tackles, and poor coaching judgments should not be on his shoulders. He is a very good QB, if he can surround himself with good people he will do well. [/quote]
He’s also playing under a very good coach. I would love to see McNabb tear up the Eagles when they play next year. I will be one of those people very interested to see that storyline play out.
Maybe they trade down and take Dez Bryant in round 1?
The Skins did pretty well after trading for another Eagles QB in the past…
Shannahan started coaching Elway when he was 34 years old and it worked out pretty well there as well.
I’m just glad the Skins finally have football people calling the shots now.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I think I was one of the few Eagles fans left who thought Mcnabb still gave them the best chance to win. Why we decided to keep Vick (who didn’t do much at all with the playing time he was given) is a mystery to me.[/quote]
McNabb would have given them a better chance to win next year, but the Eagles are rebuilding and you can’t build a team around a 33 year old QB.
The Eagles offered McNabb a chance to extend his contract last year but he wanted to hold off to see what happened with the market and instead restructured his contract for 2 years. The Eagles were ready to make a deal in '09 but McNabb didn’t want any part of it. He forced this move and should be thanking his lucky stars he won’t be playing in Oakland or Buffalo.
[/quote]
Whoa, from what I remember from last year Mcnabb wanted his contract extended or restructured and the Eagles didn’t want to extend it. So they gave him some “shut up” money to keep him quiet and satisfied because they knew they didn’t want to extend his contract.
And while the Eagles aren’t as great as they once were, I don’t think we should be chalking this season up as a rebuilding season just yet. They made the playoffs last year and there is no reason to believe they won’t make them again this upcoming year.[/quote]
Actually there are quite a few reasons. They are a shell of what they were the past couple seasons. They lost their leader on defense (Dawkins) offense (McNabb and Westbrook), traded away decent DBs, have no linebacker depth, and will be installing an almost rookie QB. They have studs at WR and TE, but only time will tell how well Kolb can utilize them, and how much of it was McNabb helping them to look so good.[/quote]
I disagree with the above. First, they jettisoned an aging Dawkins who they had changed schemes for to hide his deterioration. That they inadequately plugged his departure at safety is the mistake - not getting rid of him. Denver overpaid for him and Denver obviously used him in a manner where his deteriorating skills would be minimized.
McCoy is an adequate replacement for Westbrook. He is younger. He can do all that Brook could do with the exception of picking up blitzes. We will see this year how far he has come with picking up the blitz and blocking.
They traded away an aging Sheldon Brown who cannot command the money he wants. Ellis Hobbs is back this year and they took him on to replace Brown in the first place. He is now going to do that. He appears to have recovered from the neck injury.
Linebacker is a problem. But they are well positioned with a stock pile of draft picks in a very deep defensive draft. In the meantime, players will be released, available, etc. The point is, they have tons of flexibility in the coming months. Which brings me to a very big point. The Eagles organization does not get nearly enough credit for how it shrewdly manages personnel and the cap, year after year, to field a team with a chance to go all the way. This is no easy feat. Yet they have done it for a decade.
Finally, I doubt very seriously that McNabb made anyone look good. Although I don’t think he deserved all the criticism he got while here, he was inaccurate and there is no debating that. He could make fantastic plays and inexplicably fail to make the easy ones - and failing to make those easy passes were often momentum killers - time and time again. McNabb had no touch. Period. The report on Kolb is that he cannot match McNabb’s arm strength, but he is more accurate. Well guess what - accuracy plays very well in their offense. Jackson et als will continue to thrive under Kolb.
In sum, they have a ton of picks, flexibility, players will shake loose in the coming months, trades can be made, etc. Every team has holes - it’s the nature of market, injuries, age, adn the cap. But they will make the play offs again this year where many teams will not. The Eagles will be fine without McNabb.
Moreover, what choice did they have? Commit an extension to an aging QB while his replacement rots on the bench? Yes, McNabb has a few more very good years left. But the die was cast when they drafted Kolb. They drafted him to replace McNabb, agree or disagree. His contract expires next year too. I doubt they could have resigned him. So a choice needed to be made. Where McNabb ended up (in their division) was as much a factor of McNabb basically having a right of refusal. If McNabb didn’t want to play somewhere - he only had to articulate his intention not to sign an extension, which would have killed any deal. No team was going to take him for a year. And if they didn’t move him this year, he walks next year and they get nothing in return for him.
The only choice here was to stick to your plan when you first drafted Kolb or, let Kolb go and commit to a QB that although is a top ten QB in the league, has pretty much proven that he cannot get them over the hump and whose skill set is really ill suited for their offensive scheme. I think Kolb will surprise some people.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I think I was one of the few Eagles fans left who thought Mcnabb still gave them the best chance to win. Why we decided to keep Vick (who didn’t do much at all with the playing time he was given) is a mystery to me.[/quote]
McNabb would have given them a better chance to win next year, but the Eagles are rebuilding and you can’t build a team around a 33 year old QB.
The Eagles offered McNabb a chance to extend his contract last year but he wanted to hold off to see what happened with the market and instead restructured his contract for 2 years. The Eagles were ready to make a deal in '09 but McNabb didn’t want any part of it. He forced this move and should be thanking his lucky stars he won’t be playing in Oakland or Buffalo.
[/quote]
Whoa, from what I remember from last year Mcnabb wanted his contract extended or restructured and the Eagles didn’t want to extend it. So they gave him some “shut up” money to keep him quiet and satisfied because they knew they didn’t want to extend his contract.
And while the Eagles aren’t as great as they once were, I don’t think we should be chalking this season up as a rebuilding season just yet. They made the playoffs last year and there is no reason to believe they won’t make them again this upcoming year.[/quote]
Actually there are quite a few reasons. They are a shell of what they were the past couple seasons. They lost their leader on defense (Dawkins) offense (McNabb and Westbrook), traded away decent DBs, have no linebacker depth, and will be installing an almost rookie QB. They have studs at WR and TE, but only time will tell how well Kolb can utilize them, and how much of it was McNabb helping them to look so good.[/quote]
It’s the Eagles system that makes the players look good, not Mcnabb making anyone look good. Most players that leave the Eagles are simply not as good on other teams. Look what happened with Trotter, Hugh Douglas, Troy Vincent, Duce Staley shit, not that he was ever any good, but Freddie Mitchell can’t even make an NFL team now that the Eagles don’t want him.
Similar to NE (although not as good), the Eagles have done a fantastic job of plugging in players and having them perform well. The Eagles have been a good team for a very long time and in this league that is pretty rare (although they have yet to win the big game, obviously).
I agree they have some holes, but why anyone would underestimate this team’s ability to plug in a player and contine running as a well oiled machine is a mystery to me. They’ve done it time and time again, through injuries and everything.
But who knows? Maybe this year will be the year it all comes crashing down? Anything is possible.
[/quote]
Although I agree with your ultimate conclusion, I disagree its the system that makes the players look good. I believe they are very shrewd at evaluating talent and do not hold onto anyone out of any sentiment. They are terrific at managing the cap and contracts while keeping them lock step in tune with a players age and expectations. Do they miss sometimes? Yes, but they all do. Talent and performance are fickle and no one gets it right all the time. The “machine” as you call it is the front office’s ability to manage the complexities of cap, contracts and personnel. The Eagles will be fine.
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I think I was one of the few Eagles fans left who thought Mcnabb still gave them the best chance to win. Why we decided to keep Vick (who didn’t do much at all with the playing time he was given) is a mystery to me.[/quote]
McNabb would have given them a better chance to win next year, but the Eagles are rebuilding and you can’t build a team around a 33 year old QB.
The Eagles offered McNabb a chance to extend his contract last year but he wanted to hold off to see what happened with the market and instead restructured his contract for 2 years. The Eagles were ready to make a deal in '09 but McNabb didn’t want any part of it. He forced this move and should be thanking his lucky stars he won’t be playing in Oakland or Buffalo.
[/quote]
Whoa, from what I remember from last year Mcnabb wanted his contract extended or restructured and the Eagles didn’t want to extend it. So they gave him some “shut up” money to keep him quiet and satisfied because they knew they didn’t want to extend his contract.
And while the Eagles aren’t as great as they once were, I don’t think we should be chalking this season up as a rebuilding season just yet. They made the playoffs last year and there is no reason to believe they won’t make them again this upcoming year.[/quote]
According to WIP this morning, the Eagles approached McNabb at the end of the season in '09 but he wanted to wait and see what Brady and Manning got before deciding. When a decision could not be agreed upon by either side the restructuring needed to be revamped in June to stop any internal problems at the start of the season. I wish I could remember who they were interviewing on the subject so I apologize if my information was skewed.
However, in the past year the Eagles have lost: Dawkins, Runyon, Westbrook, R. Brown, S. Brown Gocong, Andrews, and Curtis. They might not openly be saying they are rebuilding, but they sure seem to be “restructuring” in that direction.[/quote]
Your closing is ridiculous. They lost an aging safety that they had to scheme to hid his weaknesses. Runyon is not a starter in this league any longer. Brook is done - period. No one is clamoring for his services. Brown? LOL. What has brown ever done? Gocong? Weak. Andrews? Seriously? Mental case Andrews? He’s not even playing and may never play. Curtis? An old short wide receiver coming off knee surgery?
Guys, the nature of football is players get injured, get old and go elsewhere. That’s the business. Every team experiences these departures. EVERY TEAM. Does anyone want to bet against me for them reaching the play offs? The Eagles will be a playoff team, AGAIN, next season.
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I would also say that the Kevin Curtis deal was questionable.
.[/quote]
And we need Kevin Curtis…why?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I think McNabb took a lot of heat for which he didn’t earn. This is something I like to point out to couch coaches…
Referees Ref, players play, and coaches coach. He is the QB and the most important person on the team, but dropped balls, fumbles, missed tackles, and poor coaching judgments should not be on his shoulders. He is a very good QB, if he can surround himself with good people he will do well. [/quote]
I agree with this partially. But he’s also terribly inaccurate which makes him an ill fit for the West Coast offense. Whether they should have changed the scheme to better suit him is a question for the ages, but they did enjoy a considerable amount of success anyway. I say they would have had a better offense with him being able to make all the small plays, instead of the big ones here and there. He absolutely killed them time and time again when momentum was important - when small passes, screens, etc would have milked the clock, moved the ball, sustained drives. Where a Bernard Hopkins would win a war of attrition, doing all the small things, hitting, being hard to hit, McNabb became the consumate one punch knock out artist. I believe Kolb’s skill set is actually better suited for this offense than McNabb’s. But I do agree with you - he didn’t deserve ALL the criticism, he was/is a top ten QB in the league and, the Eagles could have been doing a LOT worse the last 10 years without him.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I think I was one of the few Eagles fans left who thought Mcnabb still gave them the best chance to win. Why we decided to keep Vick (who didn’t do much at all with the playing time he was given) is a mystery to me.[/quote]
McNabb would have given them a better chance to win next year, but the Eagles are rebuilding and you can’t build a team around a 33 year old QB.
The Eagles offered McNabb a chance to extend his contract last year but he wanted to hold off to see what happened with the market and instead restructured his contract for 2 years. The Eagles were ready to make a deal in '09 but McNabb didn’t want any part of it. He forced this move and should be thanking his lucky stars he won’t be playing in Oakland or Buffalo.
[/quote]
Whoa, from what I remember from last year Mcnabb wanted his contract extended or restructured and the Eagles didn’t want to extend it. So they gave him some “shut up” money to keep him quiet and satisfied because they knew they didn’t want to extend his contract.
And while the Eagles aren’t as great as they once were, I don’t think we should be chalking this season up as a rebuilding season just yet. They made the playoffs last year and there is no reason to believe they won’t make them again this upcoming year.[/quote]
Actually there are quite a few reasons. They are a shell of what they were the past couple seasons. They lost their leader on defense (Dawkins) offense (McNabb and Westbrook), traded away decent DBs, have no linebacker depth, and will be installing an almost rookie QB. They have studs at WR and TE, but only time will tell how well Kolb can utilize them, and how much of it was McNabb helping them to look so good.[/quote]
It’s the Eagles system that makes the players look good, not Mcnabb making anyone look good. Most players that leave the Eagles are simply not as good on other teams. Look what happened with Trotter, Hugh Douglas, Troy Vincent, Duce Staley shit, not that he was ever any good, but Freddie Mitchell can’t even make an NFL team now that the Eagles don’t want him.
Similar to NE (although not as good), the Eagles have done a fantastic job of plugging in players and having them perform well. The Eagles have been a good team for a very long time and in this league that is pretty rare (although they have yet to win the big game, obviously).
I agree they have some holes, but why anyone would underestimate this team’s ability to plug in a player and contine running as a well oiled machine is a mystery to me. They’ve done it time and time again, through injuries and everything.
But who knows? Maybe this year will be the year it all comes crashing down? Anything is possible.
[/quote]
Although I agree with your ultimate conclusion, I disagree its the system that makes the players look good. I believe they are very shrewd at evaluating talent and do not hold onto anyone out of any sentiment. They are terrific at managing the cap and contracts while keeping them lock step in tune with a players age and expectations. Do they miss sometimes? Yes, but they all do. Talent and performance are fickle and no one gets it right all the time. The “machine” as you call it is the front office’s ability to manage the complexities of cap, contracts and personnel. The Eagles will be fine.
[/quote]
I agree with everything you wrote, however, what I meant to write is that I believe the Eagles’ system makes players perform at levels higher than they would perform in most other systems. The wording is a little different but it changes the meaning entirely.
Prediction: Redskins weak offensive line precipitates a high sack number on McNabb, who is injury prone and isn’t the scrambler of his youth.
He goes 6 games and goes out on injuries.
The question I was responding to was NOT whether the Eagles should have held onto a RB that is a walking concussion. It was whether or not the Eagles are rebuilding. I contend that they are. I gave my reason why I think this way. End of statement.
I have no stats to back up why I feel a certain way about players. I like Curtis; thought he was good at coming up with the big play. I think they could have at least waited until training camp before releasing him. [Here is where I could pretend that I knew he was due a $1.1 signing bonus as of June 1 which would better explain why he was released, but I had to look that information up]
You obviously know way more about football than I do.
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
You obviously know way more about football than I do. [/quote]
Yeah, but you are so much easier on the eyes… Like an order to go of long legs.
Great move for the skins, gives them a high profile player to help bring more talent and stability. McNabb is aging but farve and others prove that a QB can last longer than other players.
I’m sure Philly fans have problems with McNabb for the same reason I loved/hated him at syracuse. He lifts your spirits then breaks your heart. There was absolutely no reason for him not to get a ring with T.O… Yes he’s a clean cut guy that stays out of trouble, but he’ll even stay out of trouble when it comes time to defend his team. Sometimes your guys need you. He just seems to give you 95%. He’s that super strong guy that will lift you up if your hanging from a cliff if you have a rope, but if you grab his hand he’ll say ow my pinky hurts and drop you.
First off, the Skins owner is a complete asshole. The skins won’t win shit until they get a new owner who actually knows something about football.
Why the FUCK would you bring in so many runningbacks when your oline sucks my left testicle? Maybe if they focused on their o-line, portis would stand a better chance. Now you have 3 running backs that are going to butt heads yet no o-line.
That team had/has sooo many veteran players they have the potential to be a very solid team. That owner is an idiot and a stubborn asshole. Iâ??m sorry, but until he relinquishes ownership or letâ??s someone else call the shots, you Washington fans wonâ??t be seeing shit other than Mcnabb throwing the ball in the dirt.
PS Iâ??m a packers fan. I despise the Eagles as well. Mcnabb is a choke artist and injury prone. Most of the seasons the eagles did well and made a battle cry for the playoffs it was under the arm of a backup QB. They get into the playoffs and then either the defense chokes (Arizona) or Mcnabb throws it in the dirt (superbowl).
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
The question I was responding to was NOT whether the Eagles should have held onto a RB that is a walking concussion. It was whether or not the Eagles are rebuilding. I contend that they are. I gave my reason why I think this way. End of statement.
I have no stats to back up why I feel a certain way about players. I like Curtis; thought he was good at coming up with the big play. I think they could have at least waited until training camp before releasing him. [Here is where I could pretend that I knew he was due a $1.1 signing bonus as of June 1 which would better explain why he was released, but I had to look that information up]
You obviously know way more about football than I do. [/quote]
They just came off a playoff year. Hardly the stuff of rebuilding. And yes, keeping Curtis would have been cost prohibitive. Your last statement? I’m not so sure about that. I was just pretty much pointing out that which is pretty clear.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
And yes, keeping Curtis would have been cost prohibitive.
[/quote]
It’s also cost prohibitive to keep Vick, the guy is NOT worth the $5 million he’s getting. Sure, now the Eagles have an insurance policy if Kolb doesn’t play the way they need him to play, but IMO it’s like buying an insurance policy from a bankrupt company, Vick has nothing left.
BTW, I know you weren’t arguing in favor of Vick, but your post was easiest to quote.
[quote]football061 wrote:
First off, the Skins owner is a complete asshole. The skins won’t win shit until they get a new owner who actually knows something about football.
Why the FUCK would you bring in so many runningbacks when your oline sucks my left testicle? Maybe if they focused on their o-line, portis would stand a better chance. Now you have 3 running backs that are going to butt heads yet no o-line.
That team had/has sooo many veteran players they have the potential to be a very solid team. That owner is an idiot and a stubborn asshole. I�¢??m sorry, but until he relinquishes ownership or let�¢??s someone else call the shots, you Washington fans won�¢??t be seeing shit other than Mcnabb throwing the ball in the dirt.
PS I�¢??m a packers fan. I despise the Eagles as well. Mcnabb is a choke artist and injury prone. Most of the seasons the eagles did well and made a battle cry for the playoffs it was under the arm of a backup QB. They get into the playoffs and then either the defense chokes (Arizona) or Mcnabb throws it in the dirt (superbowl).
[/quote]
I agree Snyder is an idiot, but I believe he has done a pretty decent job of letting the football minds take care of things. This offseason has had many changes I never would have expected.
I also believe that you are going to see some crazy moves happening soon, and that offensive line start to come together.
PS- We should do a spicy food challenge.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
And yes, keeping Curtis would have been cost prohibitive.
[/quote]
It’s also cost prohibitive to keep Vick, the guy is NOT worth the $5 million he’s getting. Sure, now the Eagles have an insurance policy if Kolb doesn’t play the way they need him to play, but IMO it’s like buying an insurance policy from a bankrupt company, Vick has nothing left.
BTW, I know you weren’t arguing in favor of Vick, but your post was easiest to quote.[/quote]
It’s almost an investment though. Pay the money and incorporate him into the offense more then the year previous. If he breaks out this season, make a nice trade or keep him depending on how/what he produces for the offense.
You can’t base this upcoming season’s performance on last year’s performance. I think he did fairly well last season on the plays he did get in on, most defenses knew the play stood a good chance of involving him when he came in so yeah there were a lot of stops on him.
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
[quote]football061 wrote:
First off, the Skins owner is a complete asshole. The skins won’t win shit until they get a new owner who actually knows something about football.
Why the FUCK would you bring in so many runningbacks when your oline sucks my left testicle? Maybe if they focused on their o-line, portis would stand a better chance. Now you have 3 running backs that are going to butt heads yet no o-line.
That team had/has sooo many veteran players they have the potential to be a very solid team. That owner is an idiot and a stubborn asshole. I�?�¢??m sorry, but until he relinquishes ownership or let�?�¢??s someone else call the shots, you Washington fans won�?�¢??t be seeing shit other than Mcnabb throwing the ball in the dirt.
PS I�?�¢??m a packers fan. I despise the Eagles as well. Mcnabb is a choke artist and injury prone. Most of the seasons the eagles did well and made a battle cry for the playoffs it was under the arm of a backup QB. They get into the playoffs and then either the defense chokes (Arizona) or Mcnabb throws it in the dirt (superbowl).
[/quote]
I agree Snyder is an idiot, but I believe he has done a pretty decent job of letting the football minds take care of things. This offseason has had many changes I never would have expected.
I also believe that you are going to see some crazy moves happening soon, and that offensive line start to come together.
PS- We should do a spicy food challenge.[/quote]
I’m down for some spice!! haha
As for the O-Line comment, if you have a very solid, skilled o-line, your offense will prosper with an ok runningback and an ok QB. The O-Line is the heart of any offense no matter how many fancy cuts and quick steps an RB can make, or how many long throws or accurate throws a QB can make.
Focus on the O-Line first, work on the rest when that solid base is built.
[quote]football061 wrote:
First off, the Skins owner is a complete asshole. The skins won’t win shit until they get a new owner who actually knows something about football.
Why the FUCK would you bring in so many runningbacks when your oline sucks my left testicle? Maybe if they focused on their o-line, portis would stand a better chance. Now you have 3 running backs that are going to butt heads yet no o-line.
That team had/has sooo many veteran players they have the potential to be a very solid team. That owner is an idiot and a stubborn asshole. Iâ??m sorry, but until he relinquishes ownership or letâ??s someone else call the shots, you Washington fans wonâ??t be seeing shit other than Mcnabb throwing the ball in the dirt.
PS Iâ??m a packers fan. I despise the Eagles as well. Mcnabb is a choke artist and injury prone. Most of the seasons the eagles did well and made a battle cry for the playoffs it was under the arm of a backup QB. They get into the playoffs and then either the defense chokes (Arizona) or Mcnabb throws it in the dirt (superbowl).
[/quote]
The fudge?
Shenanigans. McNabb is a great QB and was on a Eagles team that had no weapons besides himself. And when he did have weapons, one wouldn’t shut the fuck up(TO) and the other was under utilized for his entire season(Westbrook).
When your best targets are Freddie Mitchell and Greg Lewis, I doubt you can win.
And don’t give me that Tom Brady scenario. Bill Belichick kept that ship a float until Tom Brady became truly reliable.